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Bernie Spends $575K on Vacation Home - Can Socialists Do That?

First, Bernie is not rich. Second, it wouldn't matter if he was. Believing that the wealthy should pay more in taxes does NOT mean that person believes people shouldn't be allowed to become wealthy.

Ever wonder how a man that didn't start working until he was 40, then his work was in government manages to "get rich"? Kind of like how, oh, what's his name....um, the blowhard lib from New York...comes out of the military as an E-5, goes into Congress, now he has enough to own beach front in the Bahama's
 
Ever wonder how a man that didn't start working until he was 40, then his work was in government manages to "get rich"? Kind of like how, oh, what's his name....um, the blowhard lib from New York...comes out of the military as an E-5, goes into Congress, now he has enough to own beach front in the Bahama's

No, I don't wonder because it explains in the article that they used money from the sale of a house that had been in his wife's family.

Also, mayors and representatives and senators make decent salaries. If you are frugal with that kind of income you should be doing ok for yourself by the time you are Bernie's age.

I'm not familiar with the E-5. Maybe he wrote a book or maybe he is crooked. I don't know enough about him.
 
Ever wonder how a man that didn't start working until he was 40, then his work was in government manages to "get rich"? Kind of like how, oh, what's his name....um, the blowhard lib from New York...comes out of the military as an E-5, goes into Congress, now he has enough to own beach front in the Bahama's

He's been in Congress for many years, and they make a good living. When people make a good living, something called regular 'savings' often allows those of Bernie's age to amass enough assets to purchase a vacation home in their later years. Or, as in Bernie's case here, you can afford to buy a vacation home if you sell a home that your wife inherited!

Pretty simple stuff.
 
Ever wonder how a man that didn't start working until he was 40, then his work was in government manages to "get rich"? Kind of like how, oh, what's his name....um, the blowhard lib from New York...comes out of the military as an E-5, goes into Congress, now he has enough to own beach front in the Bahama's

Rangle, that was the one I was thinking of....But the broader point is that the DC system is corrupt....We all know it.
 
Sure they can - especially if they have a charitable foundation - or if they cut a deal with someone who does:

Bernie spends $575,000 on vacation home: Can socialists do that? - CSMonitor.com






Come on, everybody - it's time for another Weekend At Bernie's:




Maybe he's just sleeping - who can tell?


Of course Bernie, the socialist / Communist can do that. In both of these systems, there's always those who are 'more equal' than others, hence their interest in making those systems come under their control so that they can be 'more equal' than others.
 
Of course Bernie, the socialist / Communist can do that. In both of these systems, there's always those who are 'more equal' than others, hence their interest in making those systems come under their control so that they can be 'more equal' than others.

Do you think a capitalist like, oh I don't know, real estate mogul Donald Trump wouldn't have done the same thing? If you can't beat 'em, they must not be capitalists.
 
Do you think a capitalist like, oh I don't know, real estate mogul Donald Trump wouldn't have done the same thing? If you can't beat 'em, they must not be capitalists.

My post wasn't a criticism of Berni's purchase, it was more so a criticism of the social / economic systems which he supports.
 
My post wasn't a criticism of Berni's purchase, it was more so a criticism of the social / economic systems which he supports.

You mean, like universal health care for people that buy houses?
 
You mean, like universal health care for people that buy houses?

I don't agree with government run single payer system is the best solution.

If the corrupt US government is charged with this, I see VA level of care for the entire nation, at least for those that can't afford private insurance and private doctors. Should the government outlaw those, and they very well might, then it'd be VA level of care for the entire population.

Not a future in which I'd like to live.
 
I don't agree with government run single payer system is the best solution.

If the corrupt US government is charged with this, I see VA level of care for the entire nation, at least for those that can't afford private insurance and private doctors. Should the government outlaw those, and they very well might, then it'd be VA level of care for the entire population.

Not a future in which I'd like to live.

You don't want to live in a future without private insurance?

In other words you want insurance to be a profitable industry. :doh

/inˈSHo͝orəns/
noun
a practice or arrangement by which a company or government agency provides a guarantee of compensation for specified loss, damage, illness, or death in return for payment of a premium.

For renters, that means renters insurance is lucrative when something bad happens. If Bernie Sanders rents his guest house (he likely won't, since he doesn't need the money), homeowners insurance could protect him from natural disaster or it could just cost him as much as the insurance company is willing to charge him. For the insurer, that means betting that nothing bad is going to happen. For life insurance, it means getting an actuary to predict when you are going to die. The alternative to all this being, healthcare is public and the "profit margin" goes to administrative costs.

So, would you rather have a bureaucrat in charge of your health insurance, or a salesman? Obama's grandfather sold life insurance. Do you think the purpose of universal healthcare is to insure socialism in case it fails, by making sure everyone has health care? That's the difference between socialism and capitalism. Capitalism bleeds folks dry and then turns around and says it "invested in people." Socialism invests in the state and asks that people work, with a "social dividend" on top of anything you keep after taxes. Not that it's guaranteed to work, but no system is.

Obama sketches Dunham as a man with a wild streak early on who settled down to sell furniture and life insurance. By the time he joined the Army, he already had lived large. He'd been thrown out of his high school in El Dorado, Kan., for punching the principal in the nose. For three years he'd lived off odd jobs, "hopping rail cars to Chicago, then California, then back again, dabbling in moonshine, cards and women," Obama wrote in his autobiography, "Dreams from My Father."
 
You don't want to live in a future without private insurance?

In other words you want insurance to be a profitable industry. :doh

/inˈSHo͝orəns/
noun
a practice or arrangement by which a company or government agency provides a guarantee of compensation for specified loss, damage, illness, or death in return for payment of a premium.

For renters, that means renters insurance is lucrative when something bad happens. If Bernie Sanders rents his guest house (he likely won't, since he doesn't need the money), homeowners insurance could protect him from natural disaster or it could just cost him as much as the insurance company is willing to charge him. For the insurer, that means betting that nothing bad is going to happen. For life insurance, it means getting an actuary to predict when you are going to die. The alternative to all this being, healthcare is public and the "profit margin" goes to administrative costs.

So, would you rather have a bureaucrat in charge of your health insurance, or a salesman? Obama's grandfather sold life insurance. Do you think the purpose of universal healthcare is to insure socialism in case it fails, by making sure everyone has health care? That's the difference between socialism and capitalism. Capitalism bleeds folks dry and then turns around and says it "invested in people." Socialism invests in the state and asks that people work, with a "social dividend" on top of anything you keep after taxes. Not that it's guaranteed to work, but no system is.

Given the long and consistent track record of government mismanagement with just about every responsibility its been given, the example of the VA as a government run healthcare, no, I don't want that in my future.

"Capitalism bleeds" "Socialism invests" I disagree with your definitions, but I suppose that's really no surprise.

I suspect that you really don't understand how a relatively free, managed, free market works. But then, this line of discussion is really straying from the thread topic.
 
That's pretty oversimplified. If you want use a simple way of categorizing socialists, then I would say you need to have at least the libertarian-authoritarian scale, but you should also have the revolutionary-gradualist scale (see the article on the early history of social democracy).

On the far Left, you have two groups, namely Libertarian Socialism (aka left-libertarianism, Anarcho-Syndicalism being the most "pure" form of that ideology) and Authoritarian Socialism (aka state socialism, with Communism being the most "pure" form of that ideology). Historical examples of Anarch-Syndicalism are Revolutionary Catalonia and the Free Territory of Ukraine, and the historical examples of Communism are, of course, the USSR and China, amongst others.

The revolutionary-gradualism is where the term "social democrat" vs "revolutionary" arises. This is the disagreement over how to obtain a socialist society: Through gradual reforms over time or through a large revolution at once. However, more recent terminology simply refers to an acceptance of capitalism and concentrated control of private capital, but with some checks in place and social safety nets. (Therefore, this is this is "Social Democratic" state capitalism vs "Neoliberal" mixed capitalism vs Libertarian private capitalism --but these are all different arguments amongst a capitalist configuration of society, so there's no attempt at removing an amalgamation of private power and control by unaccountable individuals in the system).

No. Social Democracy was originally about whether the progress of socialism should be slow or fast. In the mid-twentieth century, social democracy became a "let's only reform capitalism, and not accept socialism" ideology, as the Wikipedia article indicates.

The notion that a "liberal" is a type of "socialist" is not merely a literal contradiction of historical terms, it's not even close to being true in modern political parlance. Some socialists will call themselves liberal (as an American political term for meaning "I'm on the Left"), but, for instance, I do not.

Scandanavian countries are capitalists who accept the Social Democratic "state/mixed capitalism" model. In other words, they have a strong central state that controls portions of the economy, like healthcare/social safety nets/education/academic research, but they are capitalists. They don't object to there being individuals who control huge segments of the private industry.

Some people will call this socialist anyways (e.g. Bernie Sanders, Jeremy Corbyn, Labor parties across the West, etc), and I don't fully object to this. But we should be careful to note that it's always dangerous to have massive amount of private capital accrued in the hands of a small number of people. The failure to deal with this is what's lead to the borderline-if-not-outright corporate oligarchy and the spread of neoliberalism across the US, UK, and EU for decades now, and the weakening of social safety nets everywhere.

I just tried to make a simple description of the two most common types of socialism that have gained power in nation states, but yes things are a lot more complex. Like for example the time factor that you mentioned, that Social democrats have in many cases gone from wanting to abolish capitalism in a longer perspective to now accepting a mix economy. In the middle of the 20:th Sweden have had a very successful strategy between those two position.

That capitalist could keep control over the sector that they had but the big economic growth in society during that time should go to expanding sectors under public control. Like for example health care, education, colleges, day care centers and other public services.

As you wrote you still in a capitalist society have the problem with that a small economic elite can have huge influence over society.

One method to strengthen democratic and public control is that you also have a strong civil society. Like for example that Sweden have almost fewer labor laws and regulation then USA, for example we have no official minimum wage. Instead we have strong unions and collective agreement that apply to a large majority of workers. This have led to that Sweden workers have had real wage increases over the last couple of decades.

Other example is for example cooperative owned business in the Scandinavian that competes against the privately owned companies. I also really like the concept of study circles that we have in Sweden there 1,5 million out of Sweden’s 9 million participate in them each year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Study_circle
 
I don't agree with government run single payer system is the best solution.

If the corrupt US government is charged with this, I see VA level of care for the entire nation, at least for those that can't afford private insurance and private doctors. Should the government outlaw those, and they very well might, then it'd be VA level of care for the entire population.

Not a future in which I'd like to live.

Not sure why you'd look to the VA, which is a fully socialized system, and not single payer Medicare, or single payer systems in use literally all across the globe that somehow manage to deliver excellent care to virtually 100% of the population, using mostly private providers, at a fraction of our costs.
 
Given the long and consistent track record of government mismanagement with just about every responsibility its been given, the example of the VA as a government run healthcare, no, I don't want that in my future.

"Capitalism bleeds" "Socialism invests" I disagree with your definitions, but I suppose that's really no surprise.

I suspect that you really don't understand how a relatively free, managed, free market works. But then, this line of discussion is really straying from the thread topic.

Do you think that public housing should replace real estate, and was the investment by the Sanders the correct choice in this housing market?
 
Not sure why you'd look to the VA, which is a fully socialized system, and not single payer Medicare, or single payer systems in use literally all across the globe that somehow manage to deliver excellent care to virtually 100% of the population, using mostly private providers, at a fraction of our costs.

Like the Canadian system, eh?
Yeah, about that.

A friend of mine's mother had some persistent symptoms. She made an appointment, waited 2 months. The Dr. couldn't figure out what was wrong with her and her symptoms. Sent her to the first specialist. Took 2 months to get an appointment. He also unable to diagnose her symptoms. Off to a third specialist, another 2 month wait. Turned out to be bile duct cancer, which had, by this time 6 months later, spread to her entire system. Terminal.

The kicker is if it had been diagnosed and treated the first month to 6 weeks, she would have likely survived.

It's not the care that will kill you. It's getting to that care in time that'll kill you.

Thanks, but no thanks. No government run healthcare can compete with a private system. Sorry. The above is an example of governmnet rationing healthcare, the government rationing medical priorities, and that can't be allowed, as the government is guaranteed to **** it up, and this is people's lives. Why should a governmnet run bureaucracy and government bureaucrats give a ****?
 
Do you think that public housing should replace real estate, and was the investment by the Sanders the correct choice in this housing market?

No, public housing should not replace real estate, and I have no idea if Saunders made a correct choice or not, but clearly it was his choice.
 
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