Bernie Sanders Supporters Chant ‘Lock Her Up’ in Philadelphia Protest Against Clinton

[Jack Hays]

Re: Bernie Sanders Supporters Chant ‘Lock Her Up’ in Philadelphia Protest Against Cli

People should not have the freedom to deny others theirs, and that is what unchecked 'premium' speech does in effect; it reflects an elite expanding their influence and representation by cannibalizing that of the general populace, and at its expense. This is wholly unacceptable given that representation is and has always been one of the core tenants and pillars of American democracy.

The defense of freedom always leads to inequality. I'm fine with that.

 

[Surrealistik]

Re: Bernie Sanders Supporters Chant ‘Lock Her Up’ in Philadelphia Protest Against Cli

The defense of freedom always leads to inequality. I'm fine with that.

Measures that seek to uphold hegemony in fundamental political representation is not defense of freedom, it is defense of tyranny, the de facto rule of an elite. America was founded on the principle of representation and outrage at the lackthereof, and premium speech is actively corrosive to it.

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Bernie Sanders Supporters Chant ‘Lock Her Up’ in Philadelphia Protest Against Cli

Measures that seek to uphold hegemony in fundamental political representation is not defense of freedom, it is defense of tyranny, the de facto rule of an elite. America was founded on the principle of representation and outrage at the lackthereof, and premium speech is actively corrosive to it.

We'll have to disagree. I don't accept your terms and I don't accept your argument.

 

[The Mark]

Re: Bernie Sanders Supporters Chant ‘Lock Her Up’ in Philadelphia Protest Against Cli

unlimited money = unrationed speech

Unlimited money in politics means people with more money have more speech.

I personally think we should have zero money in politics, other than publicly provided funds to ensure all candidates are equally heard.

 

[StarWarsBob]

Re: Bernie Sanders Supporters Chant ‘Lock Her Up’ in Philadelphia Protest Against Cli

While I have great respect for Sanders supporters, I can't help but to be reminded of the Ralph Nader Green Party supporters in Florida in November, 2000 who said "there's no difference between Al Gore and George Bush", which is why 95,000 of them voted for Nader. In hindsight, Al Gore went on to win the Noble Peace prize for his work on environmental issues, while Bush took us to an unnecessary war in Iraq based on false and fixed intel of WMD's. Those Nader supporters handed Bush the election on a silver platter.

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Bernie Sanders Supporters Chant ‘Lock Her Up’ in Philadelphia Protest Against Cli

I personally think we should have zero money in politics, other than publicly provided funds to ensure all candidates are equally heard.

In which case political speech would be rationed by government. No thanks.

 

[The Mark]

Re: Bernie Sanders Supporters Chant ‘Lock Her Up’ in Philadelphia Protest Against Cli

In which case political speech would be rationed by government. No thanks.

No, only funding for campaigns.
Speech is not money, nor is money speech, however much they seem to be in these current times.

I'm thinking of a system where no person or group holds the advantage because they convinced people to give them more money.
The current system gives more weight to speech from persons and groups with more money.

I find this unfair. And thus, unacceptable.



Granted, there's no way in hell I see anything even remotely like this coming to pass any time soon, but there it is...

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Bernie Sanders Supporters Chant ‘Lock Her Up’ in Philadelphia Protest Against Cli

No, only funding for campaigns.
Speech is not money, nor is money speech, however much they seem to be in these current times.

I'm thinking of a system where no person or group holds the advantage because they convinced people to give them more money.
The current system gives more weight to speech from persons and groups with more money.

I find this unfair. And thus, unacceptable.



Granted, there's no way in hell I see anything even remotely like this coming to pass any time soon, but there it is...

What I would find unacceptable would be government rationing of campaign resources.

 

[The Mark]

Re: Bernie Sanders Supporters Chant ‘Lock Her Up’ in Philadelphia Protest Against Cli

What I would find unacceptable would be government rationing of campaign resources.

Not so much rationing, as assigning.

Every candidate gets the same resources, provided by the public they are trying to convince to elect them.
No candidate collects their own.

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Bernie Sanders Supporters Chant ‘Lock Her Up’ in Philadelphia Protest Against Cli

Not so much rationing, as assigning.

Every candidate gets the same resources, provided by the public they are trying to convince to elect them.
No candidate collects their own.

It's rationing, and the government decides who gets how much. Incumbents have inherent advantages. I prefer unlimited possibilities.

 

[The Mark]

Re: Bernie Sanders Supporters Chant ‘Lock Her Up’ in Philadelphia Protest Against Cli

It's rationing, and the government decides who gets how much. Incumbents have inherent advantages. I prefer unlimited possibilities.

It would only be acceptable to me if EVERY candidate got EXACTLY the same amount of resources.

What you fear is the government deciding who gets elected.
What I'm talking about is a completely equal platform of resources, so the voter's decision can only be influenced by the ideas a candidate presents.

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Bernie Sanders Supporters Chant ‘Lock Her Up’ in Philadelphia Protest Against Cli

It would only be acceptable to me if EVERY candidate got EXACTLY the same amount of resources.

What you fear is the government deciding who gets elected.
What I'm talking about is a completely equal platform of resources, so the voter's decision can only be influenced by the ideas a candidate presents.

It's never equal. Incumbents always have an advantage. I don't seek equality; I seek liberty.

 

[The Mark]

Re: Bernie Sanders Supporters Chant ‘Lock Her Up’ in Philadelphia Protest Against Cli

It's never equal. Incumbents always have an advantage. I don't seek equality; I seek liberty.

Of course Incumbents have an advantage, unless they've had some major screwups - people would tend to reelect someone they know who has done what they think is a good job.

Unlimited campaign funding would not counter this - the only thing additional funding does is make those who have it louder.

And louder wins votes.

Which means the ideas don't matter so much, unless they're so ridiculous people dislike the louder candidate.

Which is why I don't like unlimited funding.

It lets louder ideas win out over better ideas.

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Bernie Sanders Supporters Chant ‘Lock Her Up’ in Philadelphia Protest Against Cli

Of course Incumbents have an advantage, unless they've had some major screwups - people would tend to reelect someone they know who has done what they think is a good job.

Unlimited campaign funding would not counter this - the only thing additional funding does is make those who have it louder.

And louder wins votes.

Which means the ideas don't matter so much, unless they're so ridiculous people dislike the louder candidate.

Which is why I don't like unlimited funding.

It lets louder ideas win out over better ideas.

Unrationed political speech allows superior ideas to prevail even if they are insurgent ideas.

 

[The Mark]

Re: Bernie Sanders Supporters Chant ‘Lock Her Up’ in Philadelphia Protest Against Cli

Unrationed political speech allows superior ideas to prevail even if they are insurgent ideas.

I would prefer a format that provides an equal footing in every sense, so that the ideas, insurgent or not, can be compared without the noise of well funded attack ads and the like.

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Bernie Sanders Supporters Chant ‘Lock Her Up’ in Philadelphia Protest Against Cli

I would prefer a format that provides an equal footing in every sense, so that the ideas, insurgent or not, can be compared without the noise of well funded attack ads and the like.

I value liberty over equality.

 

[The Mark]

Re: Bernie Sanders Supporters Chant ‘Lock Her Up’ in Philadelphia Protest Against Cli

I value liberty over equality.

It seems to me that at some point too much liberty in campaign finance may result (and IMO has already resulted) in less liberty overall.
But perhaps these things will work themselves out over time.
I dislike the possible bloodshed as a result though.

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Bernie Sanders Supporters Chant ‘Lock Her Up’ in Philadelphia Protest Against Cli

It seems to me that at some point too much liberty in campaign finance may result (and IMO has already resulted) in less liberty overall.
But perhaps these things will work themselves out over time.
I dislike the possible bloodshed as a result though.

To me, overemphasis on equality is more dangerous than an abundance of liberty. You and I are replaying a debate that has lasted for centuries.

 

[The Mark]

Re: Bernie Sanders Supporters Chant ‘Lock Her Up’ in Philadelphia Protest Against Cli

To me, overemphasis on equality is more dangerous than an abundance of liberty. You and I are replaying a debate that has lasted for centuries.

Yeah, seems like.

 

[Mr Person]

Re: Bernie Sanders Supporters Chant ‘Lock Her Up’ in Philadelphia Protest Against Cli

As a US Soldier, if I mishandled classified information and placed it onto an unsecured network I could potentially face life in Prison.
Why should I vote for someone who doesn't follow the same laws I have to follow?

Vote however you want.

But nobody has any business chanting "lock her up!" if they cannot disprove the FBI's claim that they never charged anyone in similar circumstances, that in cases where charges were brought there were additional and significant aggravating factors...




This is all down to the right finding themselves in the position of having spent piles of taxpayer money over seven Benghazi investigations and discovering only negligence with regard to email handling, so they have to shout over the hilarious failure of their witch hunt by saying "lock her up!" anyway. Personally, running on a platform of putting your opponent in jail sounds more suited to the USSR than the US. It's easier than admitting the whole thing was a failed farce.

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Bernie Sanders Supporters Chant ‘Lock Her Up’ in Philadelphia Protest Against Cli

Vote however you want.

But nobody has any business chanting "lock her up!" if they cannot disprove the FBI's claim that they never charged anyone in similar circumstances, that in cases where charges were brought there were additional and significant aggravating factors...




This is all down to the right finding themselves in the position of having spent piles of taxpayer money over seven Benghazi investigations and discovering only negligence with regard to email handling, so they have to shout over the hilarious failure of their witch hunt by saying "lock her up!" anyway. Personally, running on a platform of putting your opponent in jail sounds more suited to the USSR than the US. It's easier than admitting the whole thing was a failed farce.

People can chant anything they want.

 

[CMPancake]

Re: Bernie Sanders Supporters Chant ‘Lock Her Up’ in Philadelphia Protest Against Cli

Vote however you want.

Which I plan to do my omitting my vote.

But nobody has any business chanting "lock her up!" if they cannot disprove the FBI's claim that they never charged anyone in similar circumstances,

The FBI charged then CIA Director, John Deutch for mishandling classified information on a private E-Mail server. Unlike Hillary who also mishandled classified information.