Berneconomy[W:59]

[LowDown]

Bernie Sanders summed up his understanding of the American economy this way:

"You don't necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants or 18 different pairs of sneakers when children are hungry in this country."

Just how spray deodorant money would be diverted to hungry children, short of nationalizing the companies, isn't clear. But we know what Sanders is saying, and it is this:

"I have no idea how things work. Let me run everything."

In the Latin American paradises Bernie so admires it's done this way:

1. Deodorant makers are nationalized and converted into one brand, which quickly becomes known for its poor quality. Then it becomes hard to get.
2. Foreign brands of deodorants show up in the black market.
3. Dogs are trained to sniff out foreign brands, and deodorant dissidents are denounced, caught, and imprisoned.

Rinse and repeat using any commodity you like. In Venezuela they repeatedly run out of toilet paper. The whole country. You could make a fortune selling it in Caracas.

The situations in Cuba, Venezuela, and the USSR being what they are Bernie looks to find a new example of socialism. Perhaps Denmark or Norway. But then they are increasingly xenophobic, and they still have a lot of capitalism. And they are soooooo white.

from James Lileks, National Review

 

[Abbazorkzog]

Re: Berneconomy

I fail to see how you got from,

"You don't necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants or 18 different pairs of sneakers when children are hungry in this country."

to,

"I have no idea how things work. Let me run everything."

...

Quite a leap. /=

 

[Exquisitor]

Re: Berneconomy

Bernie Sanders summed up his understanding of the American economy this way:

"You don't necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants or 18 different pairs of sneakers when children are hungry in this country."

Just how spray deodorant money would be diverted to hungry children, short of nationalizing the companies, isn't clear. But we know what Sanders is saying, and it is this:

"I have no idea how things work. Let me run everything."

In the Latin American paradises Bernie so admires it's done this way:

1. Deodorant makers are nationalized and converted into one brand, which quickly becomes known for its poor quality. Then it becomes hard to get.
2. Foreign brands of deodorants show up in the black market.
3. Dogs are trained to sniff out foreign brands, and deodorant dissidents are denounced, caught, and imprisoned.

Rinse and repeat using any commodity you like. In Venezuela they repeatedly run out of toilet paper. The whole country. You could make a fortune selling it in Caracas.

The situations in Cuba, Venezuela, and the USSR being what they are Bernie looks to find a new example of socialism. Perhaps Denmark or Norway. But then they are increasingly xenophobic, and they still have a lot of capitalism. And they are soooooo white.

from James Lileks, National Review

I sooooooo hope we don't go that way.

Why has this Socialist taken over my Party?

 

[Captain Adverse]

Re: Berneconomy

I sooooooo hope we don't go that way.

Why has this Socialist taken over my Party?

Because the Capitalists have been doing such a good job so far?

I don't think a vote for Bernie is a vote against capitalism. I think it's a vote against the oligarchs who control our economy and the Corporate conglomerates that make it hard for small business to survive.

 

[joG]

Re: Berneconomy

Bernie Sanders summed up his understanding of the American economy this way:

"You don't necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants or 18 different pairs of sneakers when children are hungry in this country."

Just how spray deodorant money would be diverted to hungry children, short of nationalizing the companies, isn't clear. But we know what Sanders is saying, and it is this:

"I have no idea how things work. Let me run everything."

In the Latin American paradises Bernie so admires it's done this way:

1. Deodorant makers are nationalized and converted into one brand, which quickly becomes known for its poor quality. Then it becomes hard to get.
2. Foreign brands of deodorants show up in the black market.
3. Dogs are trained to sniff out foreign brands, and deodorant dissidents are denounced, caught, and imprisoned.

Rinse and repeat using any commodity you like. In Venezuela they repeatedly run out of toilet paper. The whole country. You could make a fortune selling it in Caracas.

The situations in Cuba, Venezuela, and the USSR being what they are Bernie looks to find a new example of socialism. Perhaps Denmark or Norway. But then they are increasingly xenophobic, and they still have a lot of capitalism. And they are soooooo white.

from James Lileks, National Review

He is a crank stuck on the wrong side of the competition of socioeconomic systems. It is so sad that he hasn't realized that his idiology didn't stand up to the test of reality and lost to the better system 25 years ago. And it is absolutely pathetic that the US educational system is so screwed up that the young seem not to know why the socialists lost.

 

[Exquisitor]

Re: Berneconomy

Because the Capitalists have been doing such a good job so far?

The ones who haven't been doing a good job were the Bush tax cuts and mayhem including stalling the recovery on Obama and me for electing them. For this I give them Trump and Clinton and even Bernie Sanders but with Sanders I am worried that people will be let down by the reality as they were with Obama when millions of voters suddenly come demanding their share of free stuff and Bernie is smug in his office.

 

[Captain Adverse]

Re: Berneconomy

The ones who haven't been doing a good job were the Bush tax cuts and mayhem including stalling the recovery on Obama and me for electing them. For this I give them Trump and Clinton and even Bernie Sanders but with Sanders I am worried that people will be let down by the reality as they were with Obama when millions of voters suddenly come demanding their share of free stuff and Bernie is smug in his office.

I never said I supported Sanders. I said his support comes from frustration with status quo politics.

 

[Jetboogieman]

Re: Berneconomy

Here's how I would frame it.

They did an interesting experiment on what people consider choice.

They put Americans in a room with several different Soda brands, and Americans saw that as a choice.

They did the same thing in former Eastern Bloc states in Europe and found that they did not see that as a choice at all, Coffea, Tea, Apple Juice, Soda, Water, that was seen as a choice.

As an example of Healthcare in the American context, I don't understand the Conservative argument of "Give the consumer choice", when the prevailing industry practice was to provide less care for higher premiums and kick people off plans for pre-existing conditions etc.

To me that's simply a choice between crap and more crap if they're all engaged in those practices.

In Canada, sure, for my basic provincial insurance for primary care I don't have choice per-say (although I'm not obligated to get it), but I have choice for additional insurance after that for things not covered :shrug: and it works.

 

[Exquisitor]

Re: Berneconomy

The ones who haven't been doing a good job were the Bush tax cuts and mayhem including stalling the recovery on Obama and me for electing them. For this I give them Trump and Clinton and even Bernie Sanders but with Sanders I am worried that people will be let down by the reality as they were with Obama when millions of voters suddenly come demanding their share of free stuff and Bernie is smug in his office.

Which would ruin my party and keep me from my goal of keeping the Republicans out of the White House for a long time in punishment for said offenses and that their ideology just won't work and they certainly won't change. They'll still be wanting to repeal the affordable care act in 2032.

 

[VanceMack]

Re: Berneconomy

Its always tyhe same story...Bernie is just this chapters actor.

"I didnt hold a job til I was 40. I've never started a business. I've never run a business. But I am sure I know how to run the country and how to I'm sure my economic policy (which I have to admit...I've never actually engaged in) will work and I have a bunch of economists who likewise have never engaged in anything beyond theory agree. Even a few very rich capitalists agree with me though they don't run their businesses the way they say the think everyone else's business should be run."

The one thing Bernie fans all agree with is THEY know how rich successful businesses should be run.

 

[Exquisitor]

Re: Berneconomy

I never said I supported Sanders. I said his support comes from frustration with status quo politics.

Yes, and that is the correct answer. Did I sound like I thought you supported Sanders?

 

[Exquisitor]

Re: Berneconomy

Its always tyhe same story...Bernie is just this chapters actor.

"I didnt hold a job til I was 40. I've never started a business. I've never run a business. But I am sure I know how to run the country and how to I'm sure my economic policy (which I have to admit...I've never actually engaged in) will work and I have a bunch of economists who likewise have never engaged in anything beyond theory agree. Even a few very rich capitalists agree with me though they don't run their businesses the way they say the think everyone else's business should be run."

The one thing Bernie fans all agree with is THEY know how rich successful businesses should be run.

Yes, we've all gone egocentrically insane. We always think we're right. We think we can do anything we want.

 

[Abbazorkzog]

Re: Berneconomy

Its always tyhe same story...Bernie is just this chapters actor.

"I didnt hold a job til I was 40. I've never started a business. I've never run a business. But I am sure I know how to run the country and how to I'm sure my economic policy (which I have to admit...I've never actually engaged in) will work and I have a bunch of economists who likewise have never engaged in anything beyond theory agree. Even a few very rich capitalists agree with me though they don't run their businesses the way they say the think everyone else's business should be run."

The one thing Bernie fans all agree with is THEY know how rich successful businesses should be run.

*Sigh*

Moreover, one might validly say that Sanders started and operated his own business (whether he "owned" it is somewhat arguable, as it was a non-profit), the American People's Historical Society, which was created in 1978 to produce educational film strips about the history of Vermont. The University of Vermont has archived several of the brochures produced by the American People's Historical Society, one of which includes a statement from Sanders outlining the purpose of his film strips:

If we assume the most seemingly relevant application of the term — that it refers to holding steady, full-time employment — then one might fairly say it applies to Bernie Sanders. After receiving a Bachelor of Arts degree in political science from the University of Chicago in 1964, Sanders primarily worked a series of odd jobs while attempting to get his political career off the ground, and a Politico article observed that he "didn't collect his first steady paycheck until he was an elected official pushing 40 years old." However, that same article did list a variety of jobs Sanders held (even if they weren't steady or didn't provide a livable wage) before he finally reached public office upon being elected mayor of Burlington, Vermont, at age 39 — working as an aide at a psychiatric hospital, as a Head Start preschool teacher, as a carpenter, and as a freelance writer for local publications:

This statement is not literally true, as during his tenure in Congress Sanders has sponsored three bills that were enacted: two of which were rather slight matters involving the naming of USPS facilities, and one of which was the Veterans' Compensation Cost-of-Living Adjustment Act of 2013 (which provided "for an increase in the rates of compensation for veterans with service-connected disabilities and the rates of dependency and indemnity compensation for the survivors of certain disabled veterans").

 

[VanceMack]

Re: Berneconomy

*Sigh*

Sigh...

Yes...he worked the occasional job which he routinely failed at. He never held a steady job, he was never able to provide for himself and you want to follow his economic advice. Its comical you think that your post somehow serves as an endorsement of the guy and not as a reinforcement of my comment.

 

[LowDown]

Re: Berneconomy

I fail to see how you got from,



to,



...

Quite a leap. /=

It ought to be obvious that someone who sees no value in there being so many brands doesn't understand the market. Nevertheless, he complains about it and apparently wants the power to change it.

 

[TobyOne]

Re: Berneconomy

 

[LowDown]

Re: Berneconomy

Because the Capitalists have been doing such a good job so far?

I don't think a vote for Bernie is a vote against capitalism. I think it's a vote against the oligarchs who control our economy and the Corporate conglomerates that make it hard for small business to survive.

Yes, capitalists have been doing very well, actually. US manufacturing is not in decline. Manufacturers continue to set production and export records, the US is the second largest manufacturer in the world and the third largest exporter. The US is the top destination for foreign investment. We've gained 54 million jobs since 1980. Manufacturing job losses are mainly from increased productivity, not imports. American companies make most of the money gained from the sale of imported goods.

People out of work from the loss of rust belt manufacturing will not be helped by Trump's tariffs because manufacturing isn't returning to those places regardless, and people won't get off their rears and go where the jobs can be had or enter a different line of work. They can get away with this because disability payments, unemployments benefits, food stamps, etc. over extended periods of time are easy to come by.

 

[What if...?]

Re: Berneconomy

He is a crank stuck on the wrong side of the competition of socioeconomic systems. It is so sad that he hasn't realized that his idiology didn't stand up to the test of reality and lost to the better system 25 years ago. And it is absolutely pathetic that the US educational system is so screwed up that the young seem not to know why the socialists lost.

Capitalism has been broken here for forty years.

The tide is still rising but its only lifting a few boats.

Its time to fix our made up thing or try something else.

 

[fmw]

Re: Berneconomy

Bernie Sanders summed up his understanding of the American economy this way:

"You don't necessarily need a choice of 23 underarm spray deodorants or 18 different pairs of sneakers when children are hungry in this country."

I had a soviet economist tell me that once many years ago. It went in one ear and out the other.

 

[justabubba]

Re: Berneconomy

Yes, capitalists have been doing very well, actually. US manufacturing is not in decline. Manufacturers continue to set production and export records, the US is the second largest manufacturer in the world and the third largest exporter. The US is the top destination for foreign investment. We've gained 54 million jobs since 1980. Manufacturing job losses are mainly from increased productivity, not imports. American companies make most of the money gained from the sale of imported goods.

People out of work from the loss of rust belt manufacturing will not be helped by Trump's tariffs because manufacturing isn't returning to those places regardless, and people won't get off their rears and go where the jobs can be had or enter a different line of work. They can get away with this because disability payments, unemployments benefits, food stamps, etc. over extended periods of time are easy to come by.

tell that to the local under-employed former workers in the then world's most dominant textile and furniture industries

i was in the room when the manufacturer owners implored Clinton's emissaries not to sign NAFTA, because to do so would put their industries under. he did and they did

 

[joG]

Re: Berneconomy

Capitalism has been broken here for forty years.

The tide is still rising but its only lifting a few boats.

Its time to fix our made up thing or try something else.

No. I think that the US economic system works better than others have. There are certainly many and some of them grave problems that, if changed, would make the country stronger.

What is difficult is that the US has been employing more and more of the world's poor and giving them a livelihood. These people compete with people in the US and have limited the rise of their incomes. This has increasingly caused discontent.

But it is one of the great American achievements.

 

[iguanaman]

Re: Berneconomy

tell that to the local under-employed former workers in the then world's most dominant textile and furniture industries

i was in the room when the manufacturer owners implored Clinton's emissaries not to sign NAFTA, because to do so would put their industries under. he did and they did

Did they also implore HW Bush not to sign NAFTA? Or was it just Clinton? How long do you think those industries would have survived if they could not compete in the world market?

 

[iguanaman]

Re: Berneconomy

No. I think that the US economic system works better than others have. There are certainly many and some of them grave problems that, if changed, would make the country stronger.

What is difficult is that the US has been employing more and more of the world's poor and giving them a livelihood. These people compete with people in the US and have limited the rise of their incomes. This has increasingly caused discontent.

But it is one of the great American achievements.

And the time is coming where those countries middle class will pay us back by buying our goods. That is how trade works.

 

[joG]

Re: Berneconomy

And the time is coming where those countries middle class will pay us back by buying our goods. That is how trade works.

No doubt. There from stems the major strategic security challenge of the next half century.

 

[What if...?]

Re: Berneconomy

No. I think that the US economic system works better than others have. There are certainly many and some of them grave problems that, if changed, would make the country stronger.

What is difficult is that the US has been employing more and more of the world's poor and giving them a livelihood. These people compete with people in the US and have limited the rise of their incomes. This has increasingly caused discontent.

But it is one of the great American achievements.

And I might be OK with it if EVERYBODY got a haircut to do it.

But the ownership/investment class has pocketed all the "raises" for forty years now.

And nobody told anybody here that it was gonna take fifty to a hundred years for the new consumers to start pushing our wages up again.