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Ben Shapiro’s Ukraine video

EMNofSeattle

No Russian ever called me deplorable
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I’ve seen some pretty bad Ukraine takes, but this one is a special level of bad, and it’s being done by Mr. “Facts don’t care about your feelings” but of course he ignores many facts, is biased and propagandistic, and tells outright lies in this 8 minute video titled “everything you need to know about the Russia/Ukraine conflict”

A good way to tell someone’s bias is how much they omit, so when talking about Israel, Shapiro will go into insanely granular levels of details when describing conflicts there, when it comes to Russia though, this video is very brief and presents a comic book level of understanding that basically portrays Russia not as a country with its own legitimate interests, but at a Bond villain state, and this image is propped up by half truths and in some cases outright lies.

The first minute of this video is basically accusing bad Russia and China of wanting to end benevolent US hegemony because they’re really bad and really Chinese or Russian.

Then he goes into history. Literally seven seconds into the history segment he says “the Soviet Union was created in 1922 and it was then declared that Ukraine would be an associated Socialist republic” I thought that was an astounding way to describe this, but he wil make it worse in a few minutes, but at this point he doesn’t even mention that Ukraine does not and has never existed as an independent state in 1922. This is on purpose. Then goes into the Holodomor, again trying to propagandistictly present it as a foreign atrocity. Then he just skips forward to 1991 and the collapse of the SSSR which I think is very interesting because a lot happened between the 30s and 1991 but ok. Well then he at 2:13 when discussing nuclear weapons in Ukraine says “the Soviet Union kept thousands of nuclear weapons over its client satellite states” and shows a graphic defining a satellite state as “formerly independent but controlled by another country” and this is where Shapiro is exposed as a liar. The statement and graphic are kind of correct. But putting them up gives the impression Ukraine was a satellite state, it was not, it was an integral part of the Soviet Union, and it was not formerly independent. No such state as Ukraine has ever existed prior to 1991. He also describes the rise of Vladimir Putin without referencing how the US kept Yeltsin in power including by actually interfering in Russian elections. He describes the reunification of Crimea with the Russian state as an “invasion” when it was not, the Russians were already in Crimea on leased land and the Ukrainian National guard forces defected to Russia immediately, a shot wasn’t fired.

Needless to say, Shapiro is a terrible propagandist. He needs to stick with the facts and logic schtick because he is so terrible at producing propaganda it’s sad.

 
I’ve seen some pretty bad Ukraine takes, but this one is a special level of bad, and it’s being done by Mr. “Facts don’t care about your feelings” but of course he ignores many facts, is biased and propagandistic, and tells outright lies in this 8 minute video titled “everything you need to know about the Russia/Ukraine conflict”

A good way to tell someone’s bias is how much they omit, so when talking about Israel, Shapiro will go into insanely granular levels of details when describing conflicts there, when it comes to Russia though, this video is very brief and presents a comic book level of understanding that basically portrays Russia not as a country with its own legitimate interests, but at a Bond villain state, and this image is propped up by half truths and in some cases outright lies.

The first minute of this video is basically accusing bad Russia and China of wanting to end benevolent US hegemony because they’re really bad and really Chinese or Russian.

Then he goes into history. Literally seven seconds into the history segment he says “the Soviet Union was created in 1922 and it was then declared that Ukraine would be an associated Socialist republic” I thought that was an astounding way to describe this, but he wil make it worse in a few minutes, but at this point he doesn’t even mention that Ukraine does not and has never existed as an independent state in 1922. This is on purpose. Then goes into the Holodomor, again trying to propagandistictly present it as a foreign atrocity. Then he just skips forward to 1991 and the collapse of the SSSR which I think is very interesting because a lot happened between the 30s and 1991 but ok. Well then he at 2:13 when discussing nuclear weapons in Ukraine says “the Soviet Union kept thousands of nuclear weapons over its client satellite states” and shows a graphic defining a satellite state as “formerly independent but controlled by another country” and this is where Shapiro is exposed as a liar. The statement and graphic are kind of correct. But putting them up gives the impression Ukraine was a satellite state, it was not, it was an integral part of the Soviet Union, and it was not formerly independent. No such state as Ukraine has ever existed prior to 1991. He also describes the rise of Vladimir Putin without referencing how the US kept Yeltsin in power including by actually interfering in Russian elections. He describes the reunification of Crimea with the Russian state as an “invasion” when it was not, the Russians were already in Crimea on leased land and the Ukrainian National guard forces defected to Russia immediately, a shot wasn’t fired.

Needless to say, Shapiro is a terrible propagandist. He needs to stick with the facts and logic schtick because he is so terrible at producing propaganda it’s sad.



Hey EMNofMoscow

How's the weather over there today, cloudy with a chance of bullshit?

Eh, Comrade?
 
I hate Ben Shapiro but I'll admit when he's right. For the most part that video was fine.

A good way to tell someone’s bias is how much they omit
Yeah that's pretty much the metric by which I judged this post.
No such state as Ukraine has ever existed prior to 1991.
Hmmm...
Ukraine emerges as the concept of a nation, and the Ukrainians as a nationality, with the Ukrainian National Revival in the mid-18th century, in the wake of the peasant revolt of 1768/1769 and the eventual partition of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth.

I wonder why you chose to omit the fact that Ukraine actually has a long history as a nation?
 
Hmmm...


I wonder why you chose to omit the fact that Ukraine actually has a long history as a nation?
None of that shows history as an independent nation. Which is what I said. And your sources largely refer to small portions in the west and not the majority of the modern state of Ukraine.

In any event, you have to go back and clsim
That a romantic movement means the state of Ukraine previously existed. Which is not historical. Show me where a state of Ukraine with borders corrosponding to Kiev’s claims existed before 1991

You’re also purposefully confusing the distinction between state and nation, nation refers to a people, state refers to a sovereign governing unit.
 
Show me where a state of Ukraine with borders corrosponding to Kiev’s claims existed before 1991
The formation of the Kyivan state that began in the mid-9th century
By the end of the 10th century, the Kyivan domain covered a vast area from the edge of the open steppe in Ukraine as far north as Lake Ladoga and the upper Volga basin.
Although initially seeking only a redress of grievances from the Polish crown, Khmelnytsky, following his arrival in Kyiv, began to conceive of Ukraine as an independent Cossack state. He set about establishing a system of government and state finances, created a local administration under a new governing elite drawn from the Cossack officers, and initiated relations with foreign states.
Ukrainian-Russian relations deteriorated rapidly following the Bolshevik coup in Petrograd (now St. Petersburg) on November 7, 1917. The Central Rada refused to accept the new regime’s authority over Ukraine and on November 20 proclaimed the creation of the Ukrainian National Republic, though still in federation with the new democratic Russia that was expected to emerge from the impending Constituent Assembly. The Bolsheviks, in turn, at the first All-Ukrainian Congress of Soviets, held in Kharkiv in December, declared Ukraine to be a Soviet republic and formed a rival government. In January 1918 the Bolsheviks launched an offensive in the Left Bank and advanced on Kyiv.

As to the exact borders...modern day Russia didn't exist with it's exact borders before 1991. Not sure how that's relevant.

You’re also purposefully confusing the distinction between state and nation, nation refers to a people, state refers to a sovereign governing unit.
I am not. Ukraine the nation has existed literally for thousands of years. Ukrainian states have existed sporadically in that region over the course of history dating back to the first Kyivan state in the 9th century.
 
As to the exact borders...modern day Russia didn't exist with it's exact borders before 1991. Not sure how that's relevant.
The Kieven state is now Russia, and not only that the Ukes are purposefully lying and claiming they’re the successor to Kievan Rus while not properly spelling or pronouncing Kiev.
I am not. Ukraine the nation has existed literally for thousands of years.
No, it hasn’t.
Ukrainian states have existed sporadically in that region over the course of history dating back to the first Kyivan state in the 9th century.
It’s “Kievan” and that’s now Russia and not Ukraine.

You’re trying to claim the existence of the Kievan Rus as a predecessor to Ukraine, it’s the predecessor of the the Russian state to which most of the landmass now constituting Ukraine was always attached. The Ukes come from the far west in land previously controlled by Poland Lithuania and Austria Hungary and were never an independent state
 
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