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[W:534] Ben Gurion On The Reaction Of The Arabs To The Creation Of Israel

More accusation than discussion...
He doesn't understand that the value of commenting on someone's posts without addressing the poster directly lies in expressing disdain.

More for that poster's general conduct than for any factual content posted, should that indeed happen at all.

Which, in these cases, indeed rarely happens, seeing how greater importance seems to be placed on his constant emission of ad-homs.
 
More accusation than discu


Damn the Americans for supporting an ally in their quest to survive in the face of the hostility of numerous surrounding nations...
I'd say damn the French and British colonialist attitudes first of all and then, secondly, the League of Nations to be followed, thirdly, by the UN.

For not seeing the destabilizing chaos they'd be causing not just in what was to be called Palestine but in the whole area, from Syria via Iraq and Lebanon, all the way South, East and West.

All of this of course with the 20/20 hindsight we are equipped with today.

The final partition plan should not only have been recommended and supported by the UN and others, but vigorously enforced and then policed by robust rule, with neither the nascent state of Israel nor any equally nascent Palestinian state having any say in matters that would have gone beyond governing their very own affairs, very much as in federal states.

With Jerusalem placed under complete international governance applying rights but also responsibilities to and for all.

But that's a "what if" now and shutting the barn door on a horse long since bolted.

Any such attempt would most likely have failed anyway, alone on opposition by Arab states that otherwise had absolutely no cards in the Palestine game, let alone Soviet Russia then having seen fit to poke eyes all around.

It is now what it is and any entity still propagating the destruction of the State of Israel is up the creek without a paddle. Neighboring Arab states have long since come to realize this, unfortunately Hamas, right up at front, fails to acknowledge that simple fact, thus clingin to its delusional ideology of jihad.
 
I'd say damn the French and British colonialist attitudes first of all and then, secondly, the League of Nations to be followed, thirdly, by the UN.

For not seeing the destabilizing chaos they'd be causing not just in what was to be called Palestine but in the whole area, from Syria via Iraq and Lebanon, all the way South, East and West.

All of this of course with the 20/20 hindsight we are equipped with today.

The final partition plan should not only have been recommended and supported by the UN and others, but vigorously enforced and then policed by robust rule, with neither the nascent state of Israel nor any equally nascent Palestinian state having any say in matters that would have gone beyond governing their very own affairs, very much as in federal states.

With Jerusalem placed under complete international governance applying rights but also responsibilities to and for all.

But that's a "what if" now and shutting the barn door on a horse long since bolted.

Any such attempt would most likely have failed anyway, alone on opposition by Arab states that otherwise had absolutely no cards in the Palestine game, let alone Soviet Russia then having seen fit to poke eyes all around.

It is now what it is and any entity still propagating the destruction of the State of Israel is up the creek without a paddle. Neighboring Arab states have long since come to realize this, unfortunately Hamas, right up at front, fails to acknowledge that simple fact, thus clingin to its delusional ideology of jihad.

Jerusalem as an Open City pre 1947-48 certainly would have made sense.
 
Funny how you see no problem jumping on the collaboration of some Palestinians with the Nazis during WW2 but cry foul when others mention the attempted Zionist/Jewish collaboration of some Jews with them. Obviously you see no contradiction or hypocrisy in your position. Self awareness playing second fiddle to the cause lol

If the Nazis had accepted the Zionist requests for collaboration we would no doubt be talking about Lehi raised units to fight alongside the Nazis against the British. The only problem for this was the Nazi rejection of their advances.

My arguments, I feel, are solidly based on a waaaay more evenhanded approach than your own Israeli sponsored hasbara, as can be witnessed again in the above example.

You have yet to comment on Ben Gurions statement about preferring half the Jewish kids of Germany dead and the other half in Palestine rather than them all alive but living in the UK, or on the Lehi leaderships wanting a fascist state modelled on the European examples, of which Nazism was one , or the view that the Brits were worse to the Jews than Hitler was at the time of the Holocaust itself. Surprising? Not in the least.

It is your own arguments that are full of contradictions and selectivity and thus the resort to ridiculous accusations about people who refuse to be silenced by your hysterical and cowardly claims of Holocaust denial and or antisemitism ( take me on with this is the invitation offered to you, I dare you lol )

You have latched onto two things in order to attempt to construct an argument

1 That ONE of the quotes ascribed to Ben Gurion in the OP could be classed as hearsay. The other that are well documented and thus irrefutable which say the same thing being ignored by yourself.

2 That you can peddle Palestinian collaboration with the Nazis ONLY because the Jews that tried it were rejected by them.
As I showed before this whole thread is failure, your dishonest tactics already been exposed, you cherry picking quotes and removed them from the actual context and using quotes which turns to be not an actual quote at all as showed before (as if these cherry picking alleged quotes somehow represents his point of view).

Also, I already showed quotes and footage of Ben Gurion saying the complete opposite.

You have been exposed, you poorly tried to compare the Jews to Nazis as part of your anti-sematic propaganda. You have an obsession about Jews and you made it very clear what you think about them. You people always try to compare the Jews to Nazis in order to show “equivalence” so you can de-legitimize Jews and Israel.

You keep trying to compare the Jews to Nazis and shows they collaborated with them, when their purpose was to save as many Jews as they can. It already been mentioned to you, but you ignore it. So the Jews are not like the Nazis as you try to paint it, too bad for you, your anti-sematic propaganda failed.

Also you tried to ignore the words Palestinians leaders themselves which their ideology is Pan-Arabism, so they see themselves as part of the arab nation and part of greater Syria.

To conclude, the op poorly tried to show palestinians are people by selective and alleged quotes of Ben Gurion but he failed, I showed quotes and footage of Ben Gurion says the complete opposite. Moreover, I provide qoutes of palestinians leaders throught the years (1919 -1977) which don't classify themselves as a people. So your arguments have been crashed.

As I said this whole thread is a failure from the get go but at least you got exposed once again.
 
The claim that the naval blockade of Gaza is the reason for Hamas attacks on Israel is a fine example of standing cause and effect on their heads, with the idea of preventing Hamas from arming itself via the sea by Israel closing its own waters presenting an additional display of absurdity.
Indeed. He keeps recycling it even though it clear that Hamas terror attacks cause the blockade. Go figure.
 
Lehi was not "the Jews" while, admittedly, Mohammed Amin al-Husseini was not "the Palestinians".

But the latter had far more support from his own sheeple in his endeavour to import the Nazis' "final solution" with the help of the very same.

The attempt at equating the two is blatantly stupid.
Clearly he doesn't care about the facts, he focuse on spouting propaganda which compars the Jews to Nazis.
 
Jerusalem as an Open City pre 1947-48 certainly would have made sense.
My whole scenario would have been revealed as fantasy pipe dream on the principle of being too costly for anyone wishing to involve themselves to be able to sell it to their voters (in the long run).

Just look at the helter-skelter rush to get out of Absurdistan, finally.

In a perfect world all involved would feel such an obligation, alone on having stood idly by to watch the holocaust happen.

In this world, no way.

Sad but tis what tis.
 
Clearly he doesn't care about the facts, he focuse on spouting propaganda which compars the Jews to Nazis.
His primary failing being that reading propaganda material gives one an objective view and thus makes one knowledgeable.

There's plenty of publication that feeds off (and creates) confirmation bias and it is, like always, on both sides.

So if one is devoid of personal experience on the matter one is sunk.

But reading alone, even where more laudable than not reading anything at all, does not make for knowledge. It's like reading a pilot's account (factual or not) and thinking one can now fly a plane. Heck, even riding a bicycle can't be learned from books.

Neither, as displayed by the OP, can critical thinking, let alone appraisal.

But that doesn't appear to be his goal anyway.
 
Who, for the sake of interest, claimed the OP engaged in Holocaust denial here ?

If that actually happened it needs to be perused, so a link would be appreciated, also to determine who is meant by "you people".
crickets.

Deafening too.
 
The take over of Palestine by the Zionists was a European colonization. The Jewish homeland should have been carved out of post-war Germany. That at least would have has some justification.
You do know the League of Nations unanimously agree to establish a national home for the Jewish people in the land of Israel in 1922 right?
You do know that over 70% of the land was public land (in 1945/6)...
At the same land where there were about 2 million people in 48' there are now over 10 million. Also Jews always kept the connection to the land of Israel, the history of the Jews in that land goes thousands of years back.
 
You do know the League of Nations unanimously agree to establish a national home for the Jewish people in the land of Israel in 1922 right?
You do know that over 70% of the land was public land (in 1945/6)...
At the same land where there were about 2 million people in 48' there are now over 10 million. Also Jews always kept the connection to the land of Israel, the history of the Jews in that land goes thousands of years back.
That last bit (bolded by me) can only be explained to a limited number of goyim. And even then only to the point of understanding the principle, never to the point of feeling in one's heart.

People that have for thousands of years prayed (if they were prone to pray) L'Shana Haba'ah B'Yerushalayim (next year in Jerusalem) do not have to have their yearning shared for it to be respected. And beyond prayer, even the secular have always had that yearning.

I'm not remotely religious but that does (would) not justify ridiculing the sentiment.
 
His primary failing being that reading propaganda material gives one an objective view and thus makes one knowledgeable.

There's plenty of publication that feeds off (and creates) confirmation bias and it is, like always, on both sides.

So if one is devoid of personal experience on the matter one is sunk.

But reading alone, even where more laudable than not reading anything at all, does not make for knowledge. It's like reading a pilot's account (factual or not) and thinking one can now fly a plane. Heck, even riding a bicycle can't be learned from books.

Neither, as displayed by the OP, can critical thinking, let alone appraisal.

But that doesn't appear to be his goal anyway.
These quotes and links became familiar after spending a while in this section of the forum... They keep using them time and again and for the same reasons.
 
These quotes and links became familiar after spending a while in this section of the forum... They keep using them time and again and for the same reasons.
Yeah, people like the OP are not interested in appraisal of the situation that would lead to discussion. They're interested in shouting their ignorant opinions and resorting to ad-hominems when those opinions are attacked.

That's why I don't "discuss" with him, pointing out the fallacies of his often dishonest suppositions here suffices completely.
 
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That last bit (bolded by me) can only be explained to a limited number of goyim. And even then only to the point of understanding the principle, never to the point of feeling in one's heart.

People that have for thousands of years prayed (if they were prone to pray) L'Shana Haba'ah B'Yerushalayim (next year in Jerusalem) do not have to have their yearning shared for it to be respected. And beyond prayer, even the secular have always had that yearning.

I'm not remotely religious but that does (would) not justify ridiculing the sentiment.
I meant to a physical connection... You can find Jews in any period of time in the land of Israel.

That's true that religious and some secular Jews been wishing to be in Israel and Jerusalem to be specific, but yea it will be a hard task to explain it. I remembered talking to my Ethiopian friend and he told about his parents when they were in Gondar, and how they felt about Israel and how they thought it is basically heaven, even though they never even see a picture of it, but they kept praying and praying, and now after couple of decades they are here in Israel telling their story to him. So until Elon will find a way to transfer feeling from one to another it will be challenging to say the least.
 
You do know the League of Nations unanimously agree to establish a national home for the Jewish people in the land of Israel in 1922 right?
You do know that over 70% of the land was public land (in 1945/6)...
At the same land where there were about 2 million people in 48' there are now over 10 million. Also Jews always kept the connection to the land of Israel, the history of the Jews in that land goes thousands of years back.
 
You do know the League of Nations unanimously agree to establish a national home for the Jewish people in the land of Israel in 1922 right?
You do know that over 70% of the land was public land (in 1945/6)...
At the same land where there were about 2 million people in 48' there are now over 10 million. Also Jews always kept the connection to the land of Israel, the history of the Jews in that land goes thousands of years back.

Yes, a Home for the Jewish people not a homeland.
The Zionists, led by Wieseman in 1919 demanded that the League of Nations not use the words Jewish Home but the words Jewish Homeland which had a legal meaning that Jewish Home did not have. As a "Jewish Homeland" they demanded legal rights to Palestine, Trans Jordan, parts of Lebanon and Syria and that this legal right be stated as legitimate based on a their historic claims to that area. England, did not agree, declared their control over Palestine , refused Zionists legal rights to anything, except to buy land and settle in Palestine. England reduced the borders to Palestine and refused to include in the agreement the claim of historic right of Jews to the land.

The slogan "A land without people for people without a land" is a false statement. The land was never "public land". During the time of the Ottoman Empire the land was held by wealthy Turkish families as fiefdoms. For centuries they had permitted Palestinian families to farm the same plots of land in exchange for part of the income. By the time the Palestinians realized they needed legal statements to ownership of the land the Ottoman Empire had collapsed, deeds were never issued and the English administered Palestinian Mandate wouldn't or couldn't issue deeds.

Mentioning some affiliation in ones prayers is not a legal claim to land or anything else. The fact is that in 5,000 years of history Jews, except for a very fe years, have never ruled over Palestine. Having watched close up and very personally the land claims of the Penobscots in Maine, I know for certain that if an Indian tribe claimed sacred rights to your land you would be in court disputing the claim faster than you could say "L'Shana Haba'ah B'Yerushalayim".

Neither the US nor the Zionists have been honest about how they acquired land.
 
Yes, a Home for the Jewish people not a homeland.

<rest snipped for brevity>
Nevertheless, good to see acknowledgement from elsewhere that the lands in question were never significantly owned by any Palestinians either, certainly not to any extent that would have constituted Palestinian rule.

The "public" in public land incidentally referred to "public" as in "declared by the British Mandatory Authorities".

What the British refused to do or not became moot the minute they gave up the Mandate, founding of the State of Israel having occurred then.

Not saying any of that created any historical right for anyone at all, just that things became what they are to this day.
 
Most Americans supporting it do so because they want God to come back and force the Jews to convert to Christianity or burn forever in Hell. Got to love that altruism!!


You just summed up months & months of your inane content in a single post.

 
Cant speak for anyone else, but Ive said all this, all along.

Its why there will never be peace between Israel and Palestine.

The OP seems to look at 'recent' history where Israel reclaimed their homeland as being improper...evil. OK...but was it improper when the Jews were driven from the land Jerusalem and the Palestinians eventually laid claim to the land Israel (there is a distinction BTW between Israel and the land Israel). Jews always lived in Palestine.

The battle is one that goes on for 3700 years. The Palestinians were ousted from the leadership roles in Israel by the Jewish resettlement of Israel...an action Jews feel was justified as the restoration of their lands.

Who is right? They both are. But the reality is you could have this discussion in every country on the globe as all borders were at one time or another formed through conquest.
 
Nevertheless, good to see acknowledgement from elsewhere that the lands in question were never significantly owned by any Palestinians either, certainly not to any extent that would have constituted Palestinian rule.
The land was significantly owned by Palestinians and had been owned as fiefdoms for centuries. "A fief ..... consisted of heritable property or rights granted by an overlord to a vassal who held it in fealty (or "in fee") in return for a form of feudal allegiance and service, usually given by the personal ceremonies of homage and fealty. The fees were often lands or revenue-producing real property held in feudal land tenure." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fief This describes exactly how the land was held by Palestinians during the Ottoman Empire.
The "public" in public land incidentally referred to "public" as in "declared by the British Mandatory Authorities".
"
“The Administration of Palestine, while ensuring that the rights and position of other sections of the population are not prejudiced, shall facilitates Jewish immigration under suitable conditions and shall encourage, in cooperation with the Jewish Agency referred to in Article 4, close settlement by Jews on the land, including State lands and waste lands not required for public purposes”.

This in no way means the heritable fiefs of the Palestinian's were "public" or "free" land.

What the British refused to do or not became moot the minute they gave up the Mandate, founding of the State of Israel having occurred then. Not saying any of that created any historical right for anyone at all, just that things became what they are to this day.
Yes, it is what it is. However that doesn't mean that Deir Yassin is a legitimate occupations of land nobody owned any more than the Trail of Tears was a legitimate way to acquire valuable Indian farm lands in the South. Both are nothing more massacres of the legitimate owners of the land.
 
Cant speak for anyone else, but Ive said all this, all along.

Its why there will never be peace between Israel and Palestine.

The OP seems to look at 'recent' history where Israel reclaimed their homeland as being improper...evil. OK...but was it improper when the Jews were driven from the land Jerusalem and the Palestinians eventually laid claim to the land Israel (there is a distinction BTW between Israel and the land Israel). Jews always lived in Palestine.

The battle is one that goes on for 3700 years. The Palestinians were ousted from the leadership roles in Israel by the Jewish resettlement of Israel...an action Jews feel was justified as the restoration of their lands.

Who is right? They both are. But the reality is you could have this discussion in every country on the globe as all borders were at one time or another formed through conquest.
So, civilization hasn't progressed in 3500 years and it is perfectly OK to ignore international courts, massacre people and take their land. Good to know. So should the local tribes kill your family and take over your home your thoughts will be "ah, well that just the way borders are formed" One country ignoring international law means every country can also ignore it.
 
So, civilization hasn't progressed in 3500 years and it is perfectly OK to ignore international courts, massacre people and take their land. Good to know. So should the local tribes kill your family and take over your home your thoughts will be "ah, well that just the way borders are formed" One country ignoring international law means every country can also ignore it.
The only way that the US can maintain the freedom of it's citizens and friend countries is the power that it holds.
 
The only way that the US can maintain the freedom of it's citizens and friend countries is the power that it holds.
The truly powerful hold their position because of their intelligence, example, fairness, adherence to the law and respect of others.
Massacre and theft are just bullying.
 
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