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[W:534] Ben Gurion On The Reaction Of The Arabs To The Creation Of Israel

Chagos said:
Lehi was not "the Jews" while, admittedly, Mohammed Amin al-Husseini was not "the Palestinians".
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I have constantly referred to " some Jews " and " some Palestinians"...........you would or should have noticed this already had you not been so intent on the personal attacks lol the self unawareness you display is breathtaking

But the latter had far more support from his own sheeple in his endeavour to import the Nazis' "final solution" with the help of the very same.
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For sure but the fact that some Jews could think of siding with the Nazis or consider Britain to be worse for Jews than Hitler was is quite astounding nonetheless
The attempt at equating the two is blatantly stupid.
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It is a historical fact that some Jews wished to side with the Nazis and it is apt that when people here wish to discuss the actual support the Mufti ( and in tow, the Palestinians ) gave while neglecting that , had the Lehi approaches of collaboration had been successful, we would have concrete evidence of Jewish people fighting on the side of Hitlers Germany it is completely reasonable to mention ( not equate) that fact.
 
Fledermaus said:
Prove your claims
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You mean like you prove yours ? :unsure: :ROFLMAO:

You people have made the claim of Holocaust denial, remember? Why don't you show where and when it took place here? I mean without actually misrepresentation of my words ?

You see, people who constantly apply different standards to different groups based on ther own personal; biases and support it with facts but constantly reject/complain about contrary facts are the true bigots here and that is found on your side, not mine
 
In response to my Lehi was not "the Jews" while, admittedly, Mohammed Amin al-Husseini was not "the Palestinians".

we get

I have constantly referred to " some Jews " and " some Palestinians"...........

which raises certain doubts on the responder's reading comprehension, unless the whole silly response is designed to prepare for yet another ad-hom, as in

you would or should have noticed this already had you not been so intent on the personal attacks lol the self unawareness you display is breathtaking

OW2
and nothing new

:rolleyes:
 
Beyond which there is as little reason for astonishment over some Jews being immoral scum as there would be over Britain (or any other people) having its share of those as well.

The attempted equation of Israel's policy at the time with that of the Grand Mufti remains blatantly stupid.
 
Who, for the sake of interest, claimed the OP engaged in Holocaust denial here ?

If that actually happened it needs to be perused, so a link would be appreciated, also to determine who is meant by "you people".
 
oneworld2 said:
You mean like you prove yours ? :unsure: :ROFLMAO:

You people have made the claim of Holocaust denial, remember? Why don't you show where and when it took place here? I mean without actually misrepresentation of my words ?

You see, people who constantly apply different standards to different groups based on ther own personal; biases and support it with facts but constantly reject/complain about contrary facts are the true bigots here and that is found on your side, not mine
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Didn't think so....
 
oneworld2 said:
I have constantly referred to " some Jews " and " some Palestinians"...........you would or should have noticed this already had you not been so intent on the personal attacks lol the self unawareness you display is breathtaking

For sure but the fact that some Jews could think of siding with the Nazis or consider Britain to be worse for Jews than Hitler was is quite astounding nonetheless

It is a historical fact that some Jews wished to side with the Nazis and it is apt that when people here wish to discuss the actual support the Mufti ( and in tow, the Palestinians ) gave while neglecting that , had the Lehi approaches of collaboration had been successful, we would have concrete evidence of Jewish people fighting on the side of Hitlers Germany it is completely reasonable to mention ( not equate) that fact.
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Yet you squawked to high heaven when I used the term "(not all)" when referring to Palestinians...

Got hypocrisy?
 
oneworld2 said:
Seeing as we have had a few posters here putting up stuff about whether the Palestinians have a claim to a state or to even classify themselves as a people I thought it might be useful to reference some quotes from the founder of the Israeli state itself and its first Prime Minister, David Ben Gurion.



Clearly there is no doubt that Ben Gurion sees the Arabs of Palestine as a single group and both recognizes/acknowledges that their long time residency on it confers an ownership of the territory. Yet so many here, even decades on from that time still argue against that the the actual founder of the state of Israel knew to be true.



Again, in stark contrast to the junk about Israel being the one defending itself against the Palestinians, we see the acknowledgement that the Zionist movement itself is the "aggressor" and that they are " defending themselves"............again we also see the acknowledgement that the country ( Israel and the OPTs tpday " is theirs"..............( The Palestinian Arabs ) and that " we want to come here and settle down".

The obvious admission is that it is the Zionist movement and its supporters that are the political aggressors that are moving in to the territory with a view to displace and dispossess the local Arab population.

I also find the very first line crucially telling..........." Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves "..... the " truth among ourselves " because that's where we are today. Israeli propaganda has triumphed and the aggressors are the defenders, the land that was someone elses and acknowledged to be someone elses in the above, has always been theirs with the acknowledged owners vanquished to a rag tag imposter people with no rightful territorial claims.

You want to understand the settlement programme ? Who else to ask about the greater Israel project, you know the one the hasbara people here put down to a left wing CT, but Ben Gurion himself.

" “It’s not a matter of maintaining the status quo. We have to create a dynamic state, oriented towards expansion.”

People familiar with the private Zionist discussions around the acceptance of the Peel Commission plans and the UN Partition Plan will likewise know that the agenda was ALWAYS to accept what was on offer as a stepping stone and take whatever else you could by force when you could.

It's like the classic Orwellian scenario where everything is the opposite of what it pertains to be. The Israeli Ministry of Truth has certainly duped the masses into the two minutes hate of all things Arab. The people who keep spreading this nonsense here will just have to accept this truth offensive , lick their wunds, and start the hasbara all over again. Those with more open minds would be well served by actually reading some of the stuff that came out of the Israeli Archives in the 80's that where taken from documents that preceded the state and/or were born in its infancy

all quotes taken from this piece for convenience

www.progressiveisrael.org

Ben-Gurion’s Notorious Quotes: Their Polemical Uses & Abuses

I’ve been engaged in a long-term e-mail debate with anti-Zionists, associated with David McReynolds, a former leader of the War Resisters’ League and a tiny remnant that still calls itself the Socialist Party, USA. Seth Farber, one of the most vociferous (although not quite the nastiest) of my...
www.progressiveisrael.org www.progressiveisrael.org
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The take over of Palestine by the Zionists was a European colonization. The Jewish homeland should have been carved out of post-war Germany. That at least would have has some justification.
 
Chagos said:
Who, for the sake of interest, claimed the OP engaged in Holocaust denial here ?

If that actually happened it needs to be perused, so a link would be appreciated, also to determine who is meant by "you people".
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I had to go back over a hundred posts to find anyone but oneworld2 saying anything about Holocaust denial.

NO1
 
Fledermaus said:
Opinion noted. What is the historical homeland of the Jews?
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Do a DNA test and see. Who has more Semite genes the European Jews or the Palestinians that were displaced.
 
1900 there were 5% Jews living in Palestine. They got along with the Palestinians okay. They owned the land the Wailing Wall was on.

1918 Britain took over Palestine from the Ottoman Empire.

1920 Britain encouraged Jewish immigration to Palestine, seeking to have allies they could count on in the region.

1922 There was a lot of conflict between the new European Jews and the local Palestinians. The Jews were rich compared to the Palestinians.

1925 More and more European Jews, encouraged by the British, immigrated to Palestine.

1944 There was about a 100,000 Jews in Palestine now.

1945 Over a million European Jews washed up on Palestinian shores. Palestine called foul. The British tried to stem the tide but failed.

1946 The Jews launched a terror campaign against the Brits with the goal of driving them out.

1947 The British threw their hands in the air and quit, they left Palestine behind to fend for itself.

1948 The Jews beat the Palestinians in a war.

Many, many wars. Arabs and Palestinians lost in humiliating defeats.

The whole Middle East was destabilized.


It's all Europe's fault.

.
 
swing_voter said:
1900 there were 5% Jews living in Palestine. They got along with the Palestinians okay. They owned the land the Wailing Wall was on.

1918 Britain took over Palestine from the Ottoman Empire.

1920 Britain encouraged Jewish immigration to Palestine, seeking to have allies they could count on in the region.

1922 There was a lot of conflict between the new European Jews and the local Palestinians. The Jews were rich compared to the Palestinians.

1925 More and more European Jews, encouraged by the British, immigrated to Palestine.

1944 There was about a 100,000 Jews in Palestine now.

1945 Over a million European Jews washed up on Palestinian shores. Palestine called foul. The British tried to stem the tide but failed.

1946 The Jews launched a terror campaign against the Brits with the goal of driving them out.

1947 The British threw their hands in the air and quit, they left Palestine behind to fend for itself.

1948 The Jews beat the Palestinians in a war.

Many, many wars. Arabs and Palestinians lost in humiliating defeats.


It's all Europe's fault.

.
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You missed the part of the partition plan and the Arabs stamping their feet and going to war.

And the Arab terrorism though the years.

1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine

Etc.
 
Fledermaus said:
What is the historical homeland of the Jews?
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What century? Egypt before Moses. Spain and the rest of Eurasia after the diaspora,.
 
Fledermaus said:
Please fail again.

What is the historical homeland of the Jews?

What was the last independent nation to sit on that ground.
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Doesn't matter, as I said that is a nonsense term. Next thing you will be calling it the promised land.
 
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