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Believing Because of Rather Than In Spite of the Evidence...

On a forum where the whole purpose of being here is to respond to things. Sure. I don't think you comprehend the purpose of DP existing.

Then deal with it...your choice...
 
...a God who dishes out divine justice on the evil and reward to the good is well.....a very inviting idea to anyone who is less fortunate.

You have managed to condense the basis of Judeo-Christianity into a partial sentence. Its roots have always been mired in the desire for redemption and vengeance.


OM
 
When you do. You're the one whining about it like a petulant child.

Nope, you have me confused with those who have no self-control...:2razz:
 
Nope. No interest in anything that is not actually so in demonstrable, objective reality. Wishes and dreams don't mean a thing unless they are actually true. Anyone who thinks otherwise has some serious mental problems.

So it's not possible you declared him not to exist, simply because you don't want him to to begin with? How is your position based on evidence, and not due to convoluted confirmation bias?
 
You have managed to condense the basis of Judeo-Christianity into a partial sentence. Its roots have always been mired in the desire for redemption and vengeance.


OM

Be careful not to oversimplify things. The christianity of 2000 years ago, was nothing like christianity 1500 years ago, or 1000 years ago, or even 100 years ago, etc. It's only a partial sentence because really, christianity has many different bases.
 
You have managed to condense the basis of Judeo-Christianity into a partial sentence. Its roots have always been mired in the desire for redemption and vengeance.


OM

Be careful not to oversimplify things. The christianity of 2000 years ago, was nothing like christianity 1500 years ago, or 1000 years ago, or even 100 years ago, etc. It's only a partial sentence because really, christianity has many different bases.
 
I am beginning to really hate Christians.

I don't hate any god. It's like saying that I hate a character from Lord Of The Rings.

Because they're so damn stupid. I know. Trust me, I know.

Why would anyone hate your imaginary friend?

You're mistaking lack of care for hatred.

Nope. No interest in anything that is not actually so in demonstrable, objective reality. Wishes and dreams don't mean a thing unless they are actually true. Anyone who thinks otherwise has some serious mental problems.

On a forum where the whole purpose of being here is to respond to things. Sure. I don't think you comprehend the purpose of DP existing.
New Atheism is bigotry.
You are all New Atheists (those quoted, that is).
New Atheism has no belief, no argument, no reason, no manners, no clue.
Your wagonmaster talks out of one side of his mouth about "the whole purpose of being here is to respond to things" while he presses the Ignore button and leads the wagon train through hostile Christian territory toward Echo Canyon, where the church of New Atheism finds a haven against reason.
 
Be careful not to oversimplify things. The christianity of 2000 years ago, was nothing like christianity 1500 years ago, or 1000 years ago, or even 100 years ago, etc. It's only a partial sentence because really, christianity has many different bases.

Judeo-Christianity.


OM
 
So it's not possible you declared him not to exist, simply because you don't want him to to begin with? How is your position based on evidence, and not due to convoluted confirmation bias?

I didn't. Not believing is not declaring non-existence.
 
I didn't. Not believing is not declaring non-existence.

Okay....you don't believe he exists...based on evidence, you said.... and you don't want him to exist in the first place. It sounds like you're capable of very little objectivity on that matter.
 
Judeo-Christianity.


OM

Even then, I wouldn't go that far. Judea-Christianity, as we know it today, is still a very new thing. Christians hated jews for the longest time, and Jews well....essentially stayed out of christianity until the last 100 years, and the values between judaism and christianity aren't entirely the same.
 
Coulda fooled me...for people who do not care, they sure talk about God a whole lot...

Because religion poisons everything. Look at the world where so much violence is committed by the zealots over what they say

god tells them. Religious belief holds who can live on what land ? Even tells some, who...get to live.

Look at science where the world was denied a thousand years and religion continues to try as with embryonic stem cell research.

And before anyone replies that other stem cells can work, they cannot do the same

as embryonic cells.

Then believers want all of this in public school where it most certainly doesn't belong.
 
Even then, I wouldn't go that far. Judea-Christianity, as we know it today, is still a very new thing. Christians hated jews for the longest time, and Jews well....essentially stayed out of christianity until the last 100 years, and the values between judaism and christianity aren't entirely the same.

Judeo-Christianity is still what it is; Christians who still incorporate part of a religion mired in desires for redemption and vengeance into their ideology.


OM
 
if you asked any atheist "do they want God to exist?" or "After seeing that God doesn't exist, do you wish he did?", most of them would say no, which makes anyone wonder if it's just a clever use of confirmation bias. They don't want God to exist, so they choose to believe that he does, and judge others who do believe.

Disbelieving in something for which there is absolutely no proof is hardly confirmation bias.

Being eye witness to this world for these many decades, I say itr is the believers who are most guilty

of confirmation bias and as reflected in OPs coming here to proclaim such old or new beliefs and continuing

to refer to stone age fiction.
 
Tell me, when you realized that God doesn't exist, did you deep down want him to? I mean, a God who dishes out divine justice on the evil and reward to the good is well.....a very inviting idea to anyone who is less fortunate.

It may be an inviting idea, but it is not descriptive of what many believe is the Christian God. Many believe that God does not care if you have been a Good human your entire life. That God cares that you acknowledge and worship 'his' existence. If you do not, nothing else matters. That is not justice, divine, or any other kind. It is coercion.

On the other hand you can spend your life raping and killing people but if in the last week of your life, you find Jesus and you acknowledge and worship and beg for forgiveness, all is good. That does not describe justice. It describes a way to escape justice.
 
Coulda fooled me...for people who do not care, they sure talk about God a whole lot...

That is because Christians and Muslims do some horrible and disgusting things in the name of Yahweh and Allah. For example, the KKK is a proudly Christian organization. Or the children Christians and Muslims are killing in Africa in what are effectively religious wars.
 
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Okay....you don't believe he exists...based on evidence, you said.... and you don't want him to exist in the first place. It sounds like you're capable of very little objectivity on that matter.

I never said I wanted or didn't want anything. My personal desires about reality are irrelevant. It doesn't matter what I may or may not want to be real, only what is actually real. You're just desperately looking to confirm your very clear bias. That's not rational.
 
That is because Christians and Muslims do some horrible and disgusting things in the name of Yahweh. For example, the KKK is a proudly Christian organization. Or the children Christians and Muslims are killing in Africa in what are effectively religious wars.

Not only religious wars, they are fought by specifically religious armies, fighting for specifically religious reasons. But no, religion doesn't hurt anyone, right?
 
Tell me, when you realized that God doesn't exist, did you deep down want him to? I mean, a God who dishes out divine justice on the evil and reward to the good is well.....a very inviting idea to anyone who is less fortunate.

What you just described is the exact opposite of Yahweh.

He excuses evil, no matter how disgusting, so long as the the person committing the acts believes and asks forgiveness. Hitler was Catholic, so if he asked for forgiveness (which we would expect a Catholic to do) he's in heaven according to the bible.
 
It may be an inviting idea, but it is not descriptive of what many believe is the Christian God. Many believe that God does not care if you have been a Good human your entire life. That God cares that you acknowledge and worship 'his' existence. If you do not, nothing else matters. That is not justice, divine, or any other kind. It is coercion.

On the other hand you can spend your life raping and killing people but if in the last week of your life, you find Jesus and you acknowledge and worship and beg for forgiveness, all is good. That does not describe justice. It describes a way to escape justice.

Luke 15:7 ►

I tell you that in the same way there will be more rejoicing in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who do not need to repent.

That is hardly fair on the ninety-nine. A huge party being thrown for the sinner and the others merely being handed their wings and harp.
 
New Atheism is bigotry.
You are all New Atheists (those quoted, that is).
New Atheism has no belief, no argument, no reason, no manners, no clue.
Your wagonmaster talks out of one side of his mouth about "the whole purpose of being here is to respond to things" while he presses the Ignore button and leads the wagon train through hostile Christian territory toward Echo Canyon, where the church of New Atheism finds a haven against reason.

Yes, you may have a point. But I think there are atheists around who are not quite as hostile and aggressive toward religion. They appreciate the deep longings, sense of awe, fear, and uncertainties that have been at the root of religion- all through history, all over the world, and look at it with profound sympathy and understanding, rather than disdain like the new atheists. They also have no interest in throwing out the baby with the bathwater. There are many elements of religion and its institutions that we might do well to keep. Just because we have grown beyond the superstitions and ignorance that underlies much of religion does not mean that we have grown beyond all those fears, uncertainties, and sense of awe which are at the root of it.

I like this speaker. He seems to understand those feelings which underlie the religious impulse, and yet he also has an appreciation for the reasons behind the frustrations and militant backlash of the new atheists. He seems to think there is a way to go forward by ditching the worst impulses of the two sides, and keeping the best. He calls it atheism 2.0.

 
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That is because Christians and Muslims do some horrible and disgusting things in the name of Yahweh and Allah. For example, the KKK is a proudly Christian organization. Or the children Christians and Muslims are killing in Africa in what are effectively religious wars.

And if you think God approves of any of that, you are highly mistaken...
 
And if you think God approves of any of that, you are highly mistaken...

Please show me where in the bible it says Jesus will not forgive someone who truly believes in him and asks for forgiveness.
 
And if you think God approves of any of that, you are highly mistaken...

Approve? He has commanded it in the past, and angrily punished those who would disobey such commands to genocide.

"Now go and attack the Amalekites and completely destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them, but put to death men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and donkeys.”
-1 Samuel 15:3

Actually, poor Saul does commit the genocide. He just happens to spare a few of the sheep. Man does that get Yahweh angry! He punishes Saul for sparing a few of the sheep.

“But I did obey the Lord,” Saul said. “I went on the mission the Lord assigned me. I completely destroyed the Amalekites and brought back Agag their king. 21 The soldiers took sheep and cattle from the plunder, the best of what was devoted to God, in order to sacrifice them to the Lord your God at Gilgal.”

22 But Samuel replied:


“Does the Lord delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices
as much as in obeying the Lord?
To obey is better than sacrifice,
and to heed is better than the fat of rams.

23
For rebellion is like the sin of divination,
and arrogance like the evil of idolatry.
Because you have rejected the word of the Lord,
he has rejected you as king.”

24 Then Saul said to Samuel, “I have sinned. I violated the Lord’s command and your instructions. I was afraid of the men and so I gave in to them. 25 Now I beg you, forgive my sin and come back with me, so that I may worship the Lord.”

26 But Samuel said to him, “I will not go back with you. You have rejected the word of the Lord, and the Lord has rejected you as king over Israel!”

Now there's some love for ya!
 
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