Belief In Life On Other Planets Is An Act Of Religious Faith Based On Nothing

[PoS]

Here's the reason why I'm asking you to explain your statement regarding mathematics.
This was an open letter to other scientists, written by James Tour, a nobel prizer:




Beyond our planet, all the others that have been probed are lifeless, a result in accord with our chemical expectations.

The laws of physics and chemistry’s Periodic Table are universal, suggesting that life based upon amino acids, nucleotides, saccharides and lipids is an anomaly.
Life should not exist anywhere in our universe. Life should not even exist on the surface of the earth.17

An Open Letter to My Colleagues | James Tour | Inference

James Tour challenges his fellow chemists to admit that the complexity of a cell, or even of its lipid bilayer, is beyond man’s ability to duplicate, even with all of nature’s building blocks at his disposal.

inference-review.com

I didnt even read the link, because the statement you quoted is ridiculous. We are not yet sure whether other planets in our system have life or not, because we havent tested for it, so his statement is just purely stupid because we dont know if the other worlds are lifeless or not yet.

"Our analysis suggests there are more microbial species on Earth than there are stars in our galaxy," Lennon told John Ross at The Australian.

The Largest Study of Life Forms Ever Has Estimated That Earth Is Home to 1 TRILLION Species

The largest scientific study of its kind estimates that Earth could play host to more than 1 trillion different species, which means we've probably only identified a vanishingly small proportion of them – only about one-thousandth of 1 percent.

www.sciencealert.com

That's only microbial species. What about non-microscopic species?
Furthermore, there must be tons of species that have already gone extinct, even before they got discovered.

​

From this I estimate there are a million species of bacteria in 30 grams of rich forest topsoil and propose that there will be at least a billion species worldwide.

Bacteria are a major component of the cellular life on Earth and are found everywhere from the top of mountains in Antarctica to the deep-sea vents.
They are found in the deep subsoil, the open ocean and all over every surface of you. The refrain for undergraduates is that only about 10 percent of the cells moving with you are eukaryotic, the rest bacterial symbiotes.

Species Numbers in Bacteria

If correct, this estimate means that 99.9 percent of species remain unnamed and undiscovered.
In the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, professor Jay Lennon and postdoctoral fellow Kenneth Locey write that their work highlights how much diversity still remains to be described.

Scientists Posit There Are a Trillion Earth Species, Darwin Got Some Stuff Wrong

Sometimes great minds trip on simple questions.

www.inverse.com

What exactly is your point?

If by "similar to ours" you mean "has life," then I disagree. It's not logical to assume that an event happened somewhere else when we have no idea what caused that even or the likelihood of it occurring even under identical conditions.

At this stage we dont know, but if all the basic elements that constitute life on Earth are present in these other worlds, then its entirely possible that similar life like ours would surely exist, because all the building blocks are there.

Its like winning the lottery. Even if its a billion to one odds, the math spells it out that there would be a planet with characteristics similar to ours out there.

 

[tosca1]

I didnt even read the link, because the statement you quoted is ridiculous. We are not yet sure whether other planets in our system have life or not, because we havent tested for it, so his statement is just purely stupid because we dont know if the other worlds are lifeless or not yet.

You should read the link. He is one of - if not the top chemist - in the world.
He threw that open letter as a challenge to his colleagues! It's an open letter to them in a site, INFERENCE - that is relevant to the science community!

What exactly is your point?

I was simply asking you to expand on your statement about mathematical probability.
Because, if we go by what James Tour had said - mathematical probability that there may be life out there, isn't promising under the conditions that he explained.

At this stage we dont know, but if all the basic elements that constitute life on Earth are present in these other worlds, then its entirely possible that similar life like ours would surely exist, because all the building blocks are there.

Its like winning the lottery. Even if its a billion to one odds, the math spells it out that there would be a planet with characteristics similar to ours out there.

That's the issue.
He's saying, what we have here on earth was an...................... anomaly!
There shouldn't have been any life on earth!


That we haven't found any life elsewhere, is, CONSISTENT WITH THEIR CHEMICAL EXPECTATIONS.


Are there life forms that are vastly different than us? Life forms that don't fall into the current scientific definition of life?
That, we don't know.




Relating it to faith, let me paste what I just told the previous poster:


It is reasonable to speculate that with what seems to be an endless universe, the possibility can exist that indeed, life could be found somewhere in the universe.
That's how I would equate it with the possibility that GOD might exist (if I were a non-believer).

If science has not ruled out the possibility of creation......................how can anyone rule out the possibility of a GOD as creator?
In fact, to rule Him out, would be irrational.
Do you see what I mean?

 

[Eatomus]

If you aren't threatened then why do you keep trying to draw some connection between extraterrestrial life and the existence of your god? They have literally nothing to do with each other.

I don't have to draw a connection between the two because the President has seen to it already.

" Well, it seems that God did not tell us everything " ( President Bill Clinton meteorite press conference 1996)

Curious to me that you do not even have a grasp on the basics after this many posts .
But you really do don't you ?

 

[code1211]

Elon Musk did not in any way design, build, or launch that rocket. The only thing he did was manage the people who actually did that work.

You understand. You simply refuse to accept the understanding that you possess but refuse to accept.

 

[Questerr]

You understand. You simply refuse to accept the understanding that you possess but refuse to accept.

Yes, I understand perfectly well that Elon Musk is an opportunistic douche with good PR. The good PR part is why you believe he builds rockets when he has never done so.

The only thing he does is pay people who build rockets.

 

[tosca1]

The only thing he does is pay people who build rockets.

That would be like saying McDonalds doesn't make burgers!

Who finance building those rockets?
They built them in his name, right?
Would they have done it for him pro bono?
Who's being interviewed on tv. Heck - I don't even know the names of the builders!

Thus.....Elon Musks build rockets!

 

[Questerr]

That would be like saying McDonalds doesn't make burgers!

Who finance building those rockets?
They built them in his name, right?
Would they have done it for him pro bono?
Who's being interviewed on tv. Heck - I don't even know the names of the builders!

Thus.....Elon Musks build rockets!

If you claimed the CEO of McDonalds made burgers, I would question your logic too.

Thank you for continuing to confirm you have fallen for Musk's multimillion dollar PR campaign.

 

[Noodlegawd]

At this stage we dont know, but if all the basic elements that constitute life on Earth are present in these other worlds, then its entirely possible that similar life like ours would surely exist, because all the building blocks are there.

Its like winning the lottery. Even if its a billion to one odds, the math spells it out that there would be a planet with characteristics similar to ours out there.

That's all fair to say, but the point I'm making is that we don't have any reason at all to think that the odds are as good as a billion to one, or even a quadrillion to one. So far, all we know is that it happened once, and we don't know why.

 

[tosca1]

If you claimed the CEO of McDonalds made burgers, I would question your logic too.

Thank you for continuing to confirm you have fallen for Musk's multimillion dollar PR campaign.

Read the logic in my point.

 

[trouble13]

Nope its not based on faith in nothing, its based on mathematical probabilities.

What is the mathematical probability of life?

 

[Nomad4Ever]

I didn't start this thread. I'm responding to it.


It is reasonable to speculate that with what seems to be an endless universe, the possibility can exist that indeed, life could be found somewhere in the universe.
That's how I would equate it with the possibility that GOD might exist (if I were a non-believer).

If science has not ruled out the possibility of creation......................how can anyone rule out the possibility of a GOD as creator?
In fact, to rule Him out, would be irrational.
Do you see what I mean?

I don’t rule out the possibility of god either, but there are a near infinite possibilities I can’t rule out. Maybe it’s a simulation. Maybe it’s all a dream. Maybe the Last Tuesday theory is correct. Maybe it’s the Greek gods that are real.

Since there is no real evidence for any of these things, I treat the existence of any god as though they do not exist. In the same way, I don’t live my life as though aliens exist. I also don’t live my life as though I will die tomorrow, even though that’s totally possible too.

 

[Eatomus]

So if President Biden's scientific initiative to make contact with alien beings of vastly superior Technological ability for the purpose of discovering if they are a "threat":

=================================================================================================

Defense Department Forms New Group to Examine 'Threats' Posed by UFOs​

BY AILA SLISCO ON 11/25/21 AT 6:27 PM EST
==================================================================================================
: is successful and contact is made, and it turns out that not only are they not threatening, at least for the moment, but pose themselves as seeking to help us save both humanity & the planet, would it then be feasible for the president to say:
"Thanks, but no thanks, but drop by again sometime when you're in the neighborhood "
For whatever reason.
Say if these vastly superior aliens proved to be racists in their estimation of various human forms for instance ?
Wouldn't it be a given at that point that we have no choice but to refuse, even if they could demonstrate a clear ability to save our planet from the existential threat sure to destroy us shortly .

 

[mrjurrs]

You believe a lifeform that technologically advanced takes the possibility of God off the table ?

I don't know, but I would say yes. God is a concept developed by non scientists.

 

[tosca1]

I don’t rule out the possibility of god either, but there are a near infinite possibilities I can’t rule out. Maybe it’s a simulation. Maybe it’s all a dream. Maybe the Last Tuesday theory is correct. Maybe it’s the Greek gods that are real.

Since there is no real evidence for any of these things, I treat the existence of any god as though they do not exist. In the same way, I don’t live my life as though aliens exist. I also don’t live my life as though I will die tomorrow, even though that’s totally possible too.

There are many evidences that support it - collective evidences that are corroborative - but, you've got to be objective.
To be objective isn't an atheistic trait. Atheism is close-minded.
An atheist cannot entertain the idea that God could possibly exists.

Being in a mature discussion such as this, at least you don't give irrational outbursts like some do!

Anyone who rely on science as an "authority," can't rule out the existence, and creation by God.

 

[Gatsby]

I don't have to draw a connection between the two because the President has seen to it already.

" Well, it seems that God did not tell us everything " ( President Bill Clinton meteorite press conference 1996)

Curious to me that you do not even have a grasp on the basics after this many posts .
But you really do don't you ?

You clearly just want to keep spamming the same quote instead of actually talking about it, so I'll leave you to it. You don't need me here for that.

 

[Gatsby]

That's all fair to say, but the point I'm making is that we don't have any reason at all to think that the odds are as good as a billion to one, or even a quadrillion to one. So far, all we know is that it happened once, and we don't know why.

Agreed. The Drake Equation can produce pretty much any probability that people want it to, depending on what probabilities they assign to the individual components. It's entirely possible that our universe has an abundance of life. It's also possible that we are alone in our galaxy, or even the observable universe. We just don't know.

I think the parameters of the Drake Equation that we do know or can make reasonable guesses about suggest that simple life is probably very common. But complex life might be incredibly rare.

 

[PoS]

You should read the link. He is one of - if not the top chemist - in the world.
He threw that open letter as a challenge to his colleagues! It's an open letter to them in a site, INFERENCE - that is relevant to the science community!







I was simply asking you to expand on your statement about mathematical probability.
Because, if we go by what James Tour had said - mathematical probability that there may be life out there, isn't promising under the conditions that he explained.








That's the issue.
He's saying, what we have here on earth was an...................... anomaly!
There shouldn't have been any life on earth!


That we haven't found any life elsewhere, is, CONSISTENT WITH THEIR CHEMICAL EXPECTATIONS.


Are there life forms that are vastly different than us? Life forms that don't fall into the current scientific definition of life?
That, we don't know.




Relating it to faith, let me paste what I just told the previous poster:


It is reasonable to speculate that with what seems to be an endless universe, the possibility can exist that indeed, life could be found somewhere in the universe.
That's how I would equate it with the possibility that GOD might exist (if I were a non-believer).

If science has not ruled out the possibility of creation......................how can anyone rule out the possibility of a GOD as creator?
In fact, to rule Him out, would be irrational.
Do you see what I mean?

Your arguments are silly, but I shall humor you.

Firstly, we know what life's building blocks are- humans are made of carbon, water, nitrogen, etc. So if there are other worlds with the same elements present and the same conditions as Earth, then it is logical to assume that life can exist too.

Your god on the other hand... what is he made of? What proof can you give of his existence?

Outside of imagination... there is none.

We know life already exists, so even if there is less than 1% chance of finding other life elsewhere in the universe, then there is still a chance.

Your god on the other hand, there is no proof of his existence. Not even a tiny bit. Therefore the probability is zero.

That's all fair to say, but the point I'm making is that we don't have any reason at all to think that the odds are as good as a billion to one, or even a quadrillion to one. So far, all we know is that it happened once, and we don't know why.

We havent explored enough of other planets to know either way.

If we go on a manned mission to Mars and end up finding microscopic life, then it would be a bombshell- it would mean that not only is there life on other worlds, but life may in fact be more common than we thought.

We know for a fact that certain microscopic lifeforms on earth can survive even in space, so all we have to do is find even one of them out there and our entire reason for existence will change.

Tardigrade - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

What is the mathematical probability of life?

The same probabilities of another planet with conditions like Earth existing in the universe.

 

[code1211]

Yes, I understand perfectly well that Elon Musk is an opportunistic douche with good PR. The good PR part is why you believe he builds rockets when he has never done so.

The only thing he does is pay people who build rockets.

You offer a distinction without a difference.

 

[tosca1]

Your arguments are silly, but I shall humor you.

Firstly, we know what life's building blocks are- humans are made of carbon, water, nitrogen, etc. So if there are other worlds with the same elements present and the same conditions as Earth, then it is logical to assume that life can exist too.

IF.

You're hanging your argument on.......IF.

This is what the top chemist says in his challenge to other scientists:


Life should not exist. This much we know from chemistry.
In contrast to the ubiquity of life on earth, the lifelessness of other planets makes far better chemical sense.
Synthetic chemists know what it takes to build just one molecular compound.
The compound must be designed, the stereochemistry controlled. Yield optimization, purification, and characterization are needed. An elaborate supply is required to control synthesis from start to finish.

Beyond our planet, all the others that have been probed are lifeless, a result in accord with our chemical expectations.
The laws of physics and chemistry’s Periodic Table are universal, suggesting that life based upon amino acids, nucleotides, saccharides and lipids is an anomaly.


Life should not exist anywhere in our universe. Life should not even exist on the surface of the earth.

An Open Letter to My Colleagues | James Tour | Inference

James Tour challenges his fellow chemists to admit that the complexity of a cell, or even of its lipid bilayer, is beyond man’s ability to duplicate, even with all of nature’s building blocks at his disposal.

inference-review.com

READ IT!



Even if there are - UNLESS, ALL THE ANOMALOUS CONDITIONS THAT HAS HAPPENED TO EARTH ARE PRESENT..... AND, ARE PRECISELY SIMILAR TO EARTH.................you can't know if the possibility will exist!
All you have are conjectures!

Your god on the other hand... what is he made of? What proof can you give of his existence?

Lol - you dare ask for proof of His existence when your argument above is just based on.....................IF!

Outside of imagination... there is none.

That's a typical knee-jerk reaction.

Creation by God, isn't off the table you know.
Science hasn't ruled it out.

We know life already exists, so even if there is less than 1% chance of finding other life elsewhere in the universe, then there is still a chance.

Yeah. IF you do find it - it'll be another DESIGNED world! Anomaly, and all!
Just like earth!

So, there!

Your god on the other hand, there is no proof of his existence. Not even a tiny bit. Therefore the probability is zero.

We havent explored enough of other planets to know either way.

If we go on a manned mission to Mars and end up finding microscopic life, then it would be a bombshell- it would mean that not only is there life on other worlds, but life may in fact be more common than we thought.

We know for a fact that certain microscopic lifeforms on earth can survive even in space, so all we have to do is find even one of them out there and our entire reason for existence will change.

Tardigrade - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The same probabilities of another planet with conditions like Earth existing in the universe.

Surviving in outer space is one thing. They're already been in existence.................on earth!
They're earthlings that can survive out there in outer space.
Lol - they got on the moon. You know how? They got transported there!

In 2019, the Israeli spacecraft Beresheet crashed on the moon, spilling thousands of the dehydrated tardigrades that scientists loaded onto the lander (along with human DNA samples).

7 Secrets of the Only Animal That Can Survive in Space

All hail the water bear.

www.popularmechanics.com

Why aren't they anywhere in other places in outer space?

 

[Questerr]

You offer a distinction without a difference.

The difference is that Musk has never built a rocket. He’s never built an electric car. All he’s ever done is paid other people to do that work then taken credit for it.

But he’s got you believing he’s a modern Nikola Tesla.

 

[tosca1]

We know for a fact that certain microscopic lifeforms on earth can survive even in space, so all we have to do is find even one of them out there and our entire reason for existence will change.

Tardigrade - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Lest we think they came from outer space.....


Although tardigrades are unique in their ability to survive in space, Miller insists there is no reason to believe they evolved for this reason or—as a misleading VICE documentary has implied—that they are of extraterrestrial origin. Rather, the tardigrade's space-surviving ability is the result of a strange response they've evolved to overcome an earthly life-threatening problem: a water shortage.

7 Secrets of the Only Animal That Can Survive in Space

All hail the water bear.

www.popularmechanics.com

The same probabilities of another planet with conditions like Earth existing in the universe.

No, not the same probability. Tardigrades are from earth!


IF,

PRECISELY,

like earth.

 

[tosca1]

Your arguments are silly, but I shall humor you.

Firstly, we know what life's building blocks are- humans are made of carbon, water, nitrogen, etc. So if there are other worlds with the same elements present and the same conditions as Earth, then it is logical to assume that life can exist too.


The same probabilities of another planet with conditions like Earth existing in the universe.

Do you realize what you're actually saying?


Considering that the conditions aren't supposed to be the way they should be - FINELY TUNED TOGETHER TO HAVE RESULTED IN THE CREATION OF LIFE...........
......................If the same "anomalous," precised conditions are found elsewhere to have resulted in the creation of life , then you have to acknowledge that indeed, there is a DESIGNER!


For, how can an "anomaly," precisely repeat itself? Happening again?

There is a CREATOR! That is what it will prove without any doubt whatsoever!

 

[trouble13]

The same probabilities of another planet with conditions like Earth existing in the universe.

Which is what?

 

[code1211]

The difference is that Musk has never built a rocket. He’s never built an electric car. All he’s ever done is paid other people to do that work then taken credit for it.

But he’s got you believing he’s a modern Nikola Tesla.

And yet the rockets and the cars exist and work.

Go figure.

 

[Questerr]

And yet the rockets and the cars exist and work.

Go figure.

Because actual engineers and scientists design and build them. Not Musk.