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zI'm just coming into this thread...
my question: have there actually been any interferences of note?
Or is it more in the potential realm so far?
The Philippines have that right, and the Hague has the final say.Yes.
The UN.
I see no legitimacy in the case even coming before The Hague due to China's solid historical claims and international recognition of their ownership that I presented you yesterday. If we're going to start requiring countries to burden the claims of others upon their borders going back in history, there's no end to what may transpire, and may not bode well for our own countries.
Range would depend on type of artillery, but several miles is likely. Enough to shut down a narrow shipping lane. Why not the Chinese Navy? Because the island can't be sunk.
The Philippines have that right, and the Hague has the final say.
Both sides get to present their claims and supporting evidence.
China has also used their claims to expand into other countries territorial waters.
Do you consider that claim legitimate?
An interesting link you may wish to check out
South China Sea Dispute
2 informative slide shows to see.
Jack you crack me up. I know that you know that is total BS. Have you even looked at the geography invloved here ?
The Chinese are the ones who threaten aircraft in international air space.
I don't agree that telling them to leave, without forcing them to leave is threatening. I do believe that the US's spy plane was used as a provocation. I also don't think it will be the last such. There's a long US history of provocations to draw a first strike, and when that doesn't work, baiting, and when that doesn't work, false flag events.
- [h=3]Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative | Atlas[/h]amti.csis.org/atlas/
- Over half of the world's commercial shipping passes through the waterways of ... The Strait of Malacca, in particular, is one of the most important shipping lanes in ... The South China Sea contains significant proved and probable oil reserves, ...
- [h=3]South China Sea Shipping Lanes - GlobalSecurity.org[/h]www.globalsecurity.org › Military › World › War › Spratly Islands
Nov 7, 2011 - South China Sea Oil Shipping Lanes. More than half of the world's annual merchant fleet tonnage passes through the Straits of Malacca, Sunda ...
Well it will be interesting to see the results.China's historic title, by land treaty as well as the international acknowledgements of their title to the Spratly's is sufficient for me. I don't think that The Hague should even hear this case, and I think that China should tell them to kiss off. I can't speak to your other claims, my focus presently is on the Spratleys/Paracel's, and China's legitimate title of them.
More fantasy. International air space is international air space. There can be no provocation flying where the US has every right to fly and China has no right to tell others not to be there. Your last sentence is false.
Well it will be interesting to see the results.
Question - Are these results binding?
I hope that's all it will be is interesting. Which results are you speaking of?
You've yet to illustrate why China is about to alter that. As soon as you can give an example of China's resistance to free trade I'll take notice. It seems entirely unlikely given China's entire dependence on such free trade
I had thought earlier in our debate that they stayed at 13 Miles distance, but this morning I saw a photo of one of the islands in question that was taken by the Posioden (not sure of the spelling on that plane) that appears to be nearly directly over it, so I don't know, that could change things. And I already stated yesterday that I believe that if truly in international airspace, they can be told to leave, but of course the US isn't obliged to. And of course there's history of baiting, provoking and creating false flag events, documented.
If part of the Philippines claim is upheld.
They've already so demonstrated with their declaration of an Air Defense Identification Zone in the East China Sea, in 2013 as I recall. (US advised commercial air carriers to abide by "all" regional regulations but advised the Chinese US military aircraft won't acknowledge the zone.) Now, in the South China Sea the Chinese have threatened a US aircraft flying in international air space and moved artillery to their island construction project.
Interesting. And what makes you believe that your rights supercedes theirs in that region ? I cannot imagine what vital US strategic concern involves the Spratly islands
Your statement about "baiting, provoking, etc." is false.
I'm not sure of the Poseidon's flight path,but the crew would have had every right to directly overfly the island. It has no standing in international law.
- [h=3]Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative | Atlas[/h]amti.csis.org/atlas/
- Over half of the world's commercial shipping passes through the waterways of ... The Strait of Malacca, in particular, is one of the most important shipping lanes in ... The South China Sea contains significant proved and probable oil reserves, ...
- [h=3]South China Sea Shipping Lanes - GlobalSecurity.org[/h]www.globalsecurity.org › Military › World › War › Spratly Islands
Nov 7, 2011 - South China Sea Oil Shipping Lanes. More than half of the world's annual merchant fleet tonnage passes through the Straits of Malacca, Sunda ...
If part of the Philippines claim is upheld.
No, it is certainly not.
I'm pretty sick of you invoking international law when it fits your meme and flaunting it otherwise.
OK, but the Convention on Seas is clear.Japan occupied the Paracels and the Spratlys from February 1939 to August 1945.
After accepting the Japanese surrender of the islands based on the Cairo and Potsdam Declarations, Japan had renounced all claims to the islands in the 1951 San Francisco Peace Treaty together with the Paracels, Pratas and other islands captured from the Chinese, and upon these declarations, the government of the Republic of China reasserted its claim to the islands.
Greetings, Jack. :2wave:
Very interesting links! :shock: It looks like I need to re-read Sun Tzu!
The right to free flight in international air space is global. China literally has no recognized territorial rights regarding air space over the Spratlys. The Spratlys are unimportant to the US but are of intense interest to several US allies. The US interest, a core vital national interest, is in freedom of flight and maritime navigation. You may very well soon see the USS Ronald Reagan battle group arrive to exercise those rights.
I very much doubt that the Spratlys are of any such 'vital' national interests to anyone other than the US in their efforts to provoke China into an arms race with the US. I have to say that compared to other historic provocations between nations over the last century this has to be the most pathetically transparent I've witnessed in my 54 years
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