Before they even Start it Again (1 Viewer)

[tecoyah]

Every year misunderstanding leads to Darkness bleeding into an important celebration for me. Much as the inevitable "Attack on Christmas", Hype....Halloween (Samhain), takes a beating from certain religious entities.
I would like to try to quell this misunderstanding early this year....in hopes that everyone can just have a good time, and be happy.

Think of the Children:lol:

This is what Halloween means to Us:

"Samhain marks one of the two great doorways of the Celtic year, for the Celts divided the year into two seasons: the light and the dark, at Beltane on May 1st and Samhain on November 1st. Some believe that Samhain was the more important festival, marking the beginning of a whole new cycle, just as the Celtic day began at night. For it was understood that in dark silence comes whisperings of new beginnings, the stirring of the seed below the ground. Whereas Beltane welcomes in the summer with joyous celebrations at dawn, the most magically potent time of this festival is November Eve, the night of October 31st, known today of course, as Halloween.
Samhain (Scots Gaelic: Samhuinn) literally means “summer's end.” In Scotland and Ireland, Halloween is known as Oíche Shamhna, while in Wales it is Nos Calan Gaeaf, the eve of the winter's calend, or first. With the rise of Christianity, Samhain was changed to Hallowmas, or All Saints' Day, to commemorate the souls of the blessed dead who had been canonized that year, so the night before became popularly known as Halloween, All Hallows Eve, or Hollantide. November 2nd became All Souls Day, when prayers were to be offered to the souls of all who the departed and those who were waiting in Purgatory for entry into Heaven. Throughout the centuries, pagan and Christian beliefs intertwine in a gallimaufry of celebrations from Oct 31st through November 5th, all of which appear both to challenge the ascendancy of the dark and to revel in its mystery."
http://www.celticspirit.org/samhain.htm

For most Pagan Peoples, Samhain is a celebration of Harvest, and a reason to reflect on those who are not with us anymore. It is a bittersweet Holiday of remembrance, and thanks for the bounty in our lives.
Unfortunately, Some do not understand, or accept this reality and prefer to see it as some Evil day of Satan:

"But what about today? Perhaps we can still learn from history. In the fourth century, Christians attempted to co-opt the holiday by celebrating the lives of faithful Christian saints the day before Halloween. This was a conscious attempt to provide an alternative and re-focus the day away from ghouls, goblins, ghosts, witches and other “haunted” experiences. Since that time many Christians have decided to allow their children to dress in more “innocent” costumes of pumpkins, princesses, Superman or as a cowboy. Part of this is due to the simple reality that in today’s Western culture it is nearly impossible to “avoid” Halloween.

Just before reaching a conclusion on the subject, I was struck with the thought that I ought to further my search and find out what Wicca, the official religion of witchcraft, has to say about Halloween. Perhaps they viewed the day as a simple fun and innocent neighborhood activity?

“Shock” is the only word to describe what I found. Halloween is a real, sacred day for those who follow Wicca. In fact, it is one of two high and holy days for them. The Celtic belief of spirits being released is current, along with the worship of Samhain (the lord of death) – both are promoted as something to embrace on that day. There is no question in my mind that to those who believe and follow the practices of witchcraft, Halloween represents an opportunity to embrace the evil, devilish, dark side of the spiritual world.

So after discovering this, what is a reasonable conclusion? As Christians you and I are placed in this world to be a light in a world of darkness. There is no lasting benefit to ignore a holiday that exists around us, but it also does harm to celebrate Halloween as it has originated and grown over the centuries.

My suggestion? Christians should be teaching their children (age appropriately) that:

* there is a spiritual world filled with goodness from God and evil from Satan (Eph. 2:1-10);
* life with Christ has power over darkness (I John 4:4); and
* those who celebrate Halloween either are unaware of its roots, or are intentionally promoting a world where evil is lauded and viewed as an ultimate power.

To counter the evil influence of Halloween, we need to join together and celebrate the reality of the heroic efforts of Christian saints over the evil in their day. Many leaders in the past -- and present -- have fulfilled the mandate of destroying the works of the devil through their sacrificial commitment to Christ and His Kingdom.

Too, rather than “hide” in the face of evil, we should unabashedly and boldly create an alternative that is positive and uplifting; that celebrates good over evil and the triumph of God over Satan. We need to provide an environment that also makes room for heaps of fun while using the day as a “teachable moment” to celebrate God’s protection, provision and purpose for our lives."
http://www.700club.com/spirituallife/OnlineDiscipleship/Halloween/halloween_Watt05.aspx

Just to be clear....We dont even believe in Satan...so how can we possibly Celebrate its existance? My hope is this might clear things up a bit.

 

[ngdawg]

As someone who could never reconcile natural and instinctive beliefs with those of 'organized religious' ones, I appreciate the truer explanation of Oct 31and really don't understand this whole 'Satan' thing.
Personally, I find it interesting that I always equated Halloween as the true end of Autumn...as a kid, I 'trick or treated', of course and my kids do as well-it's tradition more than anything else. But as an adult, it merely signifies the end of warmer days *shrug*.
The elementary schools here do not celebrate Oct 31 as Halloween-they call it 'Harvest Day'. Many parents of Muslim and Santeria beliefs were pulling their children out of school because of the Halloween connection; calling it Harvest Day instead was supposed to be a panacea-they'd probably just about die if they really knew the connotations!
Thanks for the article. Each time I read something of that nature, it brings more understanding as to why my natural tendencies and beliefs are what they are.

 

[shuamort]

As someone who could never reconcile natural and instinctive beliefs with those of 'organized religious' ones, I appreciate the truer explanation of Oct 31and really don't understand this whole 'Satan' thing.

I remember trick-r-treatin' in my neighborhood growing up. We knew which houses gave the best candy, which houses gave the nasty taffy wrapped up in those black and orange wax papers, and the one house which gave out the Jack Chick tracts. We'd get home with our bounty and my sister and I would trade her Reese's Peanut Butter Cups for my "fun size" Snickers bars. The Smarties and Sweet Tarts were sectioned off into a 2nd tier pile that we'd eat when we ran out of the good stuff. Then there were the random coins that went into the 3rd pile. Then there were the Chick tracts. Even as a young kid, they weren't compelling and after flipping through quickly, they were discarded into the trash with the wrappers.

For those of you unfamiliar with this form of unwelcome proselytization, here's some info straight from the horse's ....***. And here's one of the tracts that goes out. :roll: :shock:

 

[tecoyah]

I remember trick-r-treatin' in my neighborhood growing up. We knew which houses gave the best candy, which houses gave the nasty taffy wrapped up in those black and orange wax papers, and the one house which gave out the Jack Chick tracts. We'd get home with our bounty and my sister and I would trade her Reese's Peanut Butter Cups for my "fun size" Snickers bars. The Smarties and Sweet Tarts were sectioned off into a 2nd tier pile that we'd eat when we ran out of the good stuff. Then there were the random coins that went into the 3rd pile. Then there were the Chick tracts. Even as a young kid, they weren't compelling and after flipping through quickly, they were discarded into the trash with the wrappers.

For those of you unfamiliar with this form of unwelcome proselytization, here's some info straight from the horse's ....***. And here's one of the tracts that goes out. :roll: :shock:

I cannot believe you were ignorant enough to post in this thread. I honestly think Jesus is cool......I no longer think YOU are. The whole point here was to explain what Pagans celebrate, and instead you go right into the pointless Christian dialogue, ignoring someone who actually leads the life.

I seriously hope I misinterpreted the intent of your reply....at least then I dont need to place Christians (or just you) on a lower scale of humanity.

 

[Gibberish]

For those of you unfamiliar with this form of unwelcome proselytization, here's some info straight from the horse's ....***. And here's one of the tracts that goes out. :roll: :shock:

Fear, the number one education and conversion tactic used by Christians. Believe what we believe or you will be in pain forever. No education, no explanations. Just do this or bad stuff will happen to you.

Some Christians are so amusing in their ignorance.

 

[shuamort]

I cannot believe you were ignorant enough to post in this thread. I honestly think Jesus is cool......I no longer think YOU are.

I can handle not being cool, I've reconciled my white and nerdy side a long time ago.

The whole point here was to explain what Pagans celebrate, and instead you go right into the pointless Christian dialogue, ignoring someone who actually leads the life.

FTR, I'm an atheist. I have no love for either the paganism nor the Christianity. I was pointing out my previous experiences and elucidating a point. Halloween was by-and-large a secular experience for me except for the lone nutjob who thinks it's the perfect opportunity to play religious red rover with threats of eternal damnation by way of a comic book.

Halloween is just another co-opted holiday that meant one thing at one time and has been distorted by evolution of the mythologies at the time. Sir James George Frazier and Joseph Campbell have both gone into great detail on how myths transverse from one religion to its successor with traditions remaining in tact but explanations changing. Check out "The Golden Bough" or "The Hero with a Thousand Faces" for more details.

I seriously hope I misinterpreted the intent of your reply....at least then I dont need to place Christians (or just you) on a lower scale of humanity.

I think you severely misinterpreted my reply and I'm confused about the accusations since your OP related not only the history of Halloween to Samhain but the 700 Club interpretation of it as well. The "pointless Christian dialogue" as you called it was brought up in your post and it would behoove you to be more circumspect before jumping to these conclusions in regards to my post.

 

[tecoyah]

The "pointless Christian dialogue" as you called it was brought up in your post and it would behoove you to be more circumspect before jumping to these conclusions in regards to my post.

Then My apology...is due....and you have it

 

[tryreading]

Every year misunderstanding leads to Darkness bleeding into an important celebration for me. Much as the inevitable "Attack on Christmas", Hype....Halloween (Samhain), takes a beating from certain religious entities.
I would like to try to quell this misunderstanding early this year....in hopes that everyone can just have a good time, and be happy.

Think of the Children:lol:

This is what Halloween means to Us:

"Samhain marks one of the two great doorways of the Celtic year, for the Celts divided the year into two seasons: the light and the dark, at Beltane on May 1st and Samhain on November 1st. Some believe that Samhain was the more important festival, marking the beginning of a whole new cycle, just as the Celtic day began at night. For it was understood that in dark silence comes whisperings of new beginnings, the stirring of the seed below the ground. Whereas Beltane welcomes in the summer with joyous celebrations at dawn, the most magically potent time of this festival is November Eve, the night of October 31st, known today of course, as Halloween.
Samhain (Scots Gaelic: Samhuinn) literally means “summer's end.” In Scotland and Ireland, Halloween is known as Oíche Shamhna, while in Wales it is Nos Calan Gaeaf, the eve of the winter's calend, or first. With the rise of Christianity, Samhain was changed to Hallowmas, or All Saints' Day, to commemorate the souls of the blessed dead who had been canonized that year, so the night before became popularly known as Halloween, All Hallows Eve, or Hollantide. November 2nd became All Souls Day, when prayers were to be offered to the souls of all who the departed and those who were waiting in Purgatory for entry into Heaven. Throughout the centuries, pagan and Christian beliefs intertwine in a gallimaufry of celebrations from Oct 31st through November 5th, all of which appear both to challenge the ascendancy of the dark and to revel in its mystery."
http://www.celticspirit.org/samhain.htm

For most Pagan Peoples, Samhain is a celebration of Harvest, and a reason to reflect on those who are not with us anymore. It is a bittersweet Holiday of remembrance, and thanks for the bounty in our lives.
Unfortunately, Some do not understand, or accept this reality and prefer to see it as some Evil day of Satan:

"But what about today? Perhaps we can still learn from history. In the fourth century, Christians attempted to co-opt the holiday by celebrating the lives of faithful Christian saints the day before Halloween. This was a conscious attempt to provide an alternative and re-focus the day away from ghouls, goblins, ghosts, witches and other “haunted” experiences. Since that time many Christians have decided to allow their children to dress in more “innocent” costumes of pumpkins, princesses, Superman or as a cowboy. Part of this is due to the simple reality that in today’s Western culture it is nearly impossible to “avoid” Halloween.

Just before reaching a conclusion on the subject, I was struck with the thought that I ought to further my search and find out what Wicca, the official religion of witchcraft, has to say about Halloween. Perhaps they viewed the day as a simple fun and innocent neighborhood activity?

“Shock” is the only word to describe what I found. Halloween is a real, sacred day for those who follow Wicca. In fact, it is one of two high and holy days for them. The Celtic belief of spirits being released is current, along with the worship of Samhain (the lord of death) – both are promoted as something to embrace on that day. There is no question in my mind that to those who believe and follow the practices of witchcraft, Halloween represents an opportunity to embrace the evil, devilish, dark side of the spiritual world.

So after discovering this, what is a reasonable conclusion? As Christians you and I are placed in this world to be a light in a world of darkness. There is no lasting benefit to ignore a holiday that exists around us, but it also does harm to celebrate Halloween as it has originated and grown over the centuries.

My suggestion? Christians should be teaching their children (age appropriately) that:

* there is a spiritual world filled with goodness from God and evil from Satan (Eph. 2:1-10);
* life with Christ has power over darkness (I John 4:4); and
* those who celebrate Halloween either are unaware of its roots, or are intentionally promoting a world where evil is lauded and viewed as an ultimate power.

To counter the evil influence of Halloween, we need to join together and celebrate the reality of the heroic efforts of Christian saints over the evil in their day. Many leaders in the past -- and present -- have fulfilled the mandate of destroying the works of the devil through their sacrificial commitment to Christ and His Kingdom.

Too, rather than “hide” in the face of evil, we should unabashedly and boldly create an alternative that is positive and uplifting; that celebrates good over evil and the triumph of God over Satan. We need to provide an environment that also makes room for heaps of fun while using the day as a “teachable moment” to celebrate God’s protection, provision and purpose for our lives."
http://www.700club.com/spirituallife/OnlineDiscipleship/Halloween/halloween_Watt05.aspx

Just to be clear....We dont even believe in Satan...so how can we possibly Celebrate its existance? My hope is this might clear things up a bit.

Wars sometimes are started after the claim of a fictional attack or wrong done to the party who wants to fight. Seems to me that some of the 700 Club assumptions/fallacies are being used to justify a conflict they intend to wage on Halloween. All I want to know is when will this situation will be aired on O'Reilly? Will it receive equal time to the War on Christmas? More importantly, though, those of us who intend to wage said war again this coming December should probably very quickly develop a defense for the apparently impending Halloween issue. Got kevlar?

 

[shuamort]

Then My apology...is due....and you have it

Thanks, no harm no foul. :2wave: