Beautiful Simplistic Power

[Lord of Planar]

I guess I shouldn't say it's simple without explaining. There has been a new rotary engine developed, that could possible be used for cars. The claim is 160 HP for an engine only weighing 35 pounds. It's all rotary, but requires complicated precision in the manufacturing. Aluminum and ceramic design. I can imagine possible problems and life would be one of them. As long as we use fossil fuels for transportation, it would be nice to have a simpler, more efficient engine in cars and trucks.

I wonder what one of these would cost at high volume manufacturing?

The bearings I think would be the most critical component, as the engine relies on very tight tolerances instead of seals. We have some amazing manufacturing capacity today, but are we ready to mass produce something like this?

Omega 1 Internal Combustion Engine is Light, Powerful, Efficient and Clean

thekneeslider.com

 

[KevinKohler]

Eh...Being a car guy, I am well and truly familiar with the Wenkel rotary engine...enough so that I'll wait to see it, before saying yea or nay.

In top racing trim, the engine is amazing, as seen in the mazda 787B. But in full racing trim, it GUZZLES gas, and needs a complete rebuild every 5,000 miles or less.

In NA form, as seen in earlier and later RX7/RX8, it uses more gas per hp produced than almost any other engine known. It's fascinating, really. One wonders where the gas actually goes.

In Turbo form, as seen in mid year RX7s (FC and FD), it generates power on par with the fuel consumed...but it's also a ticking time bomb.

And while those examples are old designs, and one would expect improvements...I am not certain the principle is sound vs a piston engine. 25K rpm redline? Sure, the design might be simple, but...operation at those speeds is certainly going to be complicated. And without that high rpm, this motor won't make the power needed to move a motorcycle, let alone a car.

I am content to wait and see. I think we haven't yet fulfilled the promise of turbo engines. We leave a lot on the table.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Eh...Being a car guy, I am well and truly familiar with the Wenkel rotary engine...enough so that I'll wait to see it, before saying yea or nay.

In top racing trim, the engine is amazing, as seen in the mazda 787B. But in full racing trim, it GUZZLES gas, and needs a complete rebuild every 5,000 miles or less.

In NA form, as seen in earlier and later RX7/RX8, it uses more gas per hp produced than almost any other engine known. It's fascinating, really. One wonders where the gas actually goes.

In Turbo form, as seen in mid year RX7s (FC and FD), it generates power on par with the fuel consumed...but it's also a ticking time bomb.

And while those examples are old designs, and one would expect improvements...I am not certain the principle is sound vs a piston engine. 25K rpm redline? Sure, the design might be simple, but...operation at those speeds is certainly going to be complicated. And without that high rpm, this motor won't make the power needed to move a motorcycle, let alone a car.

I am content to wait and see. I think we haven't yet fulfilled the promise of turbo engines. We leave a lot on the table.

I have no experience with the real cars, but the Mazda 787B was always my favorite in the various Gran Turismo games.

Effectively a double 13B engine and turbocharged, the game allowed up to 650 HP if I remember correct.

That car win LeMans how many times?

 

[911Sparky]

I have no experience with the real cars, but the Mazda 787B was always my favorite in the various Gran Turismo games.

Effectively a double 13B engine and turbocharged, the game allowed up to 650 HP if I remember correct.

That car win LeMans how many times?

I seem to remember reading in Car and Driver years ago that the rotary engine had very high oil consumption rates. Is this still true?

 

[eohrnberger]

I guess I shouldn't say it's simple without explaining. There has been a new rotary engine developed, that could possible be used for cars. The claim is 160 HP for an engine only weighing 35 pounds. It's all rotary, but requires complicated precision in the manufacturing. Aluminum and ceramic design. I can imagine possible problems and life would be one of them. As long as we use fossil fuels for transportation, it would be nice to have a simpler, more efficient engine in cars and trucks.

I wonder what one of these would cost at high volume manufacturing?

The bearings I think would be the most critical component, as the engine relies on very tight tolerances instead of seals. We have some amazing manufacturing capacity today, but are we ready to mass produce something like this?

View attachment 67368266

Omega 1 Internal Combustion Engine is Light, Powerful, Efficient and Clean

thekneeslider.com

Who knows, until it goes through it's extensive testing.

Meanwhile, this one already has.

Koenigsegg 600 hp 3 Cylinder Engine​

Back in the days, a 3 cylinder engine claiming such power would more likely end up as a joke. However, in March 2020, the Koenigsegg Gemera was revealed online at the Geneva Motor Show. A hybrid supercar with 1700 horsepower.​

​

The Koenigsegg Gemera engine is mounted behind the rear seats paired with two electric motors. From the engine capacity of 1700 horsepower, 1100 hp comes from the electric motors and the rest of 600 hp derives from the 3 cylinder internal combustion engine.​

​

With such specs, Koenigsegg engine is unmatched by even a high performance turbocharged V-8 engine.​

KOENIGSEGG ENGINE​

Considering a regular 3 cylinder engine with turbocharger, it usually go upto 200 horsepower. However, Koenigsegg 3 cylinder engine just changed the game by tripling the figure with its innovative technology.​

​

The credit goes to its sister company, Freevalve. The company is leading in engine technology by developing cam-less combustion engines with variable valve train operation. With years of development and research, the Freevalve engine made it to production in the form of Gemera.​

​

To understand how Freevalve engines give an unparalleled edge against the competitors, we have to delve a bit into its engine design.​

https://www.dubizzle.com/blog/cars/koenigsegg-3-cylinder-engine/

 

[Lord of Planar]

I seem to remember reading in Car and Driver years ago that the rotary engine had very high oil consumption rates. Is this still true?

I have no idea, but it might be why they discontinues it. If it has a high oil consumption, then it would likely fail newer emission standards.

 

[Exquisitor]

Eh...Being a car guy, I am well and truly familiar with the Wenkel rotary engine...enough so that I'll wait to see it, before saying yea or nay.

In top racing trim, the engine is amazing, as seen in the mazda 787B. But in full racing trim, it GUZZLES gas, and needs a complete rebuild every 5,000 miles or less.

In NA form, as seen in earlier and later RX7/RX8, it uses more gas per hp produced than almost any other engine known. It's fascinating, really. One wonders where the gas actually goes.

In Turbo form, as seen in mid year RX7s (FC and FD), it generates power on par with the fuel consumed...but it's also a ticking time bomb.

And while those examples are old designs, and one would expect improvements...I am not certain the principle is sound vs a piston engine. 25K rpm redline? Sure, the design might be simple, but...operation at those speeds is certainly going to be complicated. And without that high rpm, this motor won't make the power needed to move a motorcycle, let alone a car.

I am content to wait and see. I think we haven't yet fulfilled the promise of turbo engines. We leave a lot on the table.

They run the thing for five seconds at the end of the second video, it doesn't sound at all like a good engine.

 

[Lord of Planar]

They run the thing for five seconds at the end of the second video, it doesn't sound at all like a good engine.

It probably has a wonky torque curve. I hope this concept actually works, but I don't yet have faith in it.

 

[Glitch]

I guess I shouldn't say it's simple without explaining. There has been a new rotary engine developed, that could possible be used for cars. The claim is 160 HP for an engine only weighing 35 pounds. It's all rotary, but requires complicated precision in the manufacturing. Aluminum and ceramic design. I can imagine possible problems and life would be one of them. As long as we use fossil fuels for transportation, it would be nice to have a simpler, more efficient engine in cars and trucks.

I wonder what one of these would cost at high volume manufacturing?

The bearings I think would be the most critical component, as the engine relies on very tight tolerances instead of seals. We have some amazing manufacturing capacity today, but are we ready to mass produce something like this?

View attachment 67368266

Omega 1 Internal Combustion Engine is Light, Powerful, Efficient and Clean

thekneeslider.com

I fully support new engine technology. It has been something we've been working on since 1900. Even a small improvement over existing combustion engines would have a potentially large world-wide impact considering the sheer number of combustion engines currently in existence.

I'm a bit concerned about how well aluminum and ceramic will be able to handle cold. I do hope that they consider the temperature of the environment when redesigning the engine. Air-cooled engines typically do not retain heat very well, which is why they can be air cooled. Currently, if the temperature drops below -40°F with existing combustion engines, you need leave the vehicle running 24/7 until the weather warms up. Otherwise within 30 minutes after shutting off the engine it will become a lump of frozen useless metal.

It would be nice to have an engine that could be safely shut-off and started again in -50°F temperatures, but that may be asking for a bit much. I just hope they provide a means for keeping the engine warm, because the materials they are using won't do it.

 

[Lord of Planar]

I fully support new engine technology. It has been something we've been working on since 1900. Even a small improvement over existing combustion engines would have a potentially large world-wide impact considering the sheer number of combustion engines currently in existence.

I'm a bit concerned about how well aluminum and ceramic will be able to handle cold. I do hope that they consider the temperature of the environment when redesigning the engine. Air-cooled engines typically do not retain heat very well, which is why they can be air cooled. Currently, if the temperature drops below -40°F with existing combustion engines, you need leave the vehicle running 24/7 until the weather warms up. Otherwise within 30 minutes after shutting off the engine it will become a lump of frozen useless metal.

It would be nice to have an engine that could be safely shut-off and started again in -50°F temperatures, but that may be asking for a bit much. I just hope they provide a means for keeping the engine warm, because the materials they are using won't do it.

Its is a worthwhile concern. I've worked with ceramics before, but not to such precision here. It is a concern as to how much, if any, the thermal expansion differences will make.

I'm sure if the engine is viable for the market, they will overcome the subfreezing weather issues.

 

[Glitch]

Its is a worthwhile concern. I've worked with ceramics before, but not to such precision here. It is a concern as to how much, if any, the thermal expansion differences will make.

I'm sure is the engine is viable for the market, they will overcome the subfreezing weather issues.

The problem are the fluids that are currently required to make the engine function. If we could reduce their freezing temperature of the liquids somehow, or eliminate fluids altogether, that would be a significant improvement. We've got anti-freeze down to -60°F before it freezes, if they could only do that with lubricating oil they would have a winner.

 

[Lord of Planar]

The problem are the fluids that are currently required to make the engine function. If we could reduce their freezing temperature of the liquids somehow, or eliminate fluids altogether, that would be a significant improvement. We've got anti-freeze down to -60°F before it freezes, if they could only do that with lubricating oil they would have a winner.

It runs with close machined tolerances rather than with seals. No oil needs to lubricate the engine, other than the four bearings and gears that mesh the two rotary assemblies. Viscosity won't be the same problem as with a regular IC engine.

 

[Glitch]

It runs with close machined tolerances rather than with seals. No oil needs to lubricate the engine, other than the four bearings and gears that mesh the two rotary assemblies. Viscosity won't be the same problem as with a regular IC engine.

If the tolerances are that close, then thermal expansion could play a much bigger role. That would also explain the aluminum. I'm not as familiar with ceramics. I know some ceramics can retain heat well, but can it also be made to release heat quickly, similar to aluminum?

 

[Lord of Planar]

If the tolerances are that close, then thermal expansion could play a much bigger role. That would also explain the aluminum. I'm not as familiar with ceramics. I know some ceramics can retain heat well, but can it also be made to release heat quickly, similar to aluminum?

I believe the ceramics used are actually an oxide of aliminum, and they maintain their shape exceptionally well.

 

[KevinKohler]

If the tolerances are that close, then thermal expansion could play a much bigger role. That would also explain the aluminum. I'm not as familiar with ceramics. I know some ceramics can retain heat well, but can it also be made to release heat quickly, similar to aluminum?

Ceramics release heat exceptionally well. But they are brittle, in most forms.