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BBC: Ukraine-Russia sea clash: Poroshenko urges Nato to send ships

Litwin

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once NATO is there, Somalia with snow will vanish from Azov sea 100% . will NATO finish off new created Somalian off shore in Azov sea?

"Ukraine-Russia sea clash: Poroshenko urges Nato to send ships"...Nato has expressed "full support" for Ukraine, which is not a member state.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46381166

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Lionman

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once NATO is there, Somalia with snow will vanish from Azov sea 100% . will NATO finish off new created Somalian off shore in Azov sea?

"Ukraine-Russia sea clash: Poroshenko urges Nato to send ships"...Nato has expressed "full support" for Ukraine, which is not a member state.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46381166

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What a nonsense.


Vladimir, please do me the favor to send the arrested idiots of the Ukrainian army home. What a Kindergarten. And the politics of the USA in the moment is also only on a Kindergarten level.
 
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Westphalian

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It will never happen and nobody with any sanity should even suggest it.

Such an action would constitute an invasion of Russian territory and would be resisted. Due to proximity to land based Russian anti ship defence systems, NATO would be defeated in theatre.
 

Rogue Valley

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It will never happen and nobody with any sanity should even suggest it.

Such an action would constitute an invasion of Russian territory and would be resisted. Due to proximity to land based Russian anti ship defence systems, NATO would be defeated in theatre.

Russia owns neither the Black Sea nor the Sea of Azov.
 

Westphalian

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Russia owns neither the Black Sea nor the Sea of Azov.

I don't comment on ownership.

Warships from foreign powers are not permitted access to Azov without Russia's consent, and you know this.

You also know that Poroshenko's call has been rejected for the reasons I outlined.

I suspect you agree with the substance of my post but just can't bring yourself to admit it.
 

Lionman

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It will never happen and nobody with any sanity should even suggest it.

Such an action would constitute an invasion of Russian territory and would be resisted. Due to proximity to land based Russian anti ship defence systems, NATO would be defeated in theatre.

Oh by the way Russian, who calls himselve "Westphalian": What do you think about the idea to erase Moscow from this planet? Stupid, isn't it? The question is: How stupid are we - and I fear we Germans are much more stupid than anyone in the world is able to imagine - specially if we should start to suffer under our old sickness "furor teutonicus". No - the most easy solution: Russia keeps the Krim and stops to attack the Ukraine and the Ukraine also stops to attack Russia. Sell your weapons and buy some equipment for Russian-Ukrainian folk-festivals. That's the better way.

 
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beerftw

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Oh by the way Russian, who calls himselve "Westphalian": What do you think about the idea to erase Moscow from this planet? Stupid, isn't it? The question is: How stupid are we - and I fear we Germans are much more stupid than anyone in the world is able to imagine - specially if we should start to suffer under our old sickness "furor teutonicus". No - the most easy solution: Russia keeps the Krim and stops to attack the Ukraine and the Ukraine also stops to attack Russia. Sell your weapons and buy some equipment for Russian-Ukrainian folk-festivals. That's the better way.


Nothing is that simple, crimea could be handed over in writing to russia tomorrow and they would still not end supporting proxy forces in eastern ukraine, as the eastern ukraine proxy forces are there for the reason of keeping ukraine from nato, as a nato country needs to control it's borders, ukraine might just let crimea go but that but not make them happy if they did that but turned around and joined nato. The obvious part is that the donbass area was not annexed by russia like crimea was, meaning they hold more value staying disputed territory than new land for russia.
 

beerftw

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once NATO is there, Somalia with snow will vanish from Azov sea 100% . will NATO finish off new created Somalian off shore in Azov sea?

"Ukraine-Russia sea clash: Poroshenko urges Nato to send ships"...Nato has expressed "full support" for Ukraine, which is not a member state.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-46381166

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You just seem clueless, one by treaty any foreign military needs permission from both russia and ukraine to enter the azov sea, even if no treaty existed, they would still need both countries permissions as the kerch strait is currently controlled by russia and had it not been it would have been under both countries national waters. No matter how you put it under international law if nato moved into the azov it would be seen as a direct declaration of war leading to world war or nuclear war. Why do you think nato has pretty much said nope, because no one is willing to wage a war that made ww2 look like a daycare center over a pissant squabble, nato needs an actual reason to fight the second most powerful military on earth and the only military capable of going head to head with nato and the united states, not some dictators rants and some pissant squabbles.


You know what you keep talking about how bad russia is and how they are somalia in snow, if they are so bad you can gather a lithuanian militia and go conquer russia, but something tells me this will not happen as you know for a fact russia is not a piss poor military, but if you need to lie to yourself at night to sleep by calling them somalia in snow so be it.
 

Lionman

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Nothing is that simple,

What for heavens sake is more simple then people who ignore real problems and like to solve not existing problems with an impracticable war?

crimea could be handed over in writing to russia tomorrow and they would still not end supporting proxy forces in eastern ukraine,

Russians, who are fighting for Russians, - whether they are damned sick idiots or not - are not proxy forces. If the Russians, who terrorize others there, are citizens of the Ukraine then the Ukraine has to convince the own citizens. If there are Russian soldiers who come from a region outside of the Ukraine, then this would be an infiltration and/or invasion.

as the eastern ukraine proxy forces are there for the reason of keeping ukraine from nato, as a nato country needs to control it's borders,

One moment please. Since when is the Ukraine a NATO member? And Germany for example is not able to control totally the own borders nor is Europe able to control totally the borders of Europe.

ukraine might just let crimea go

It is gone. That's over.

but that but not make them happy

Happy?

if they did that but turned around and joined nato.

The NATO is nearly dead since Donald Trump is president of the USA.

The obvious part is that the donbass area was not annexed by russia like crimea was, meaning they hold more value staying disputed territory than new land for russia.

Russia? New land? That's a joke now, I guess. Whatever - if the Russian "soldiers" I saw in TV some longer time ago are from this area, which you call "donbass", then give them Vodka for free until they start to do extended suicide. To do war with this scrapped drunken bodies is only a waste of time. Perhaps we should help to evacuate all women and their children on humanitarian reasons. The species "men" there seems to be worth nothing at all.

 
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Rogue Valley

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The NATO is nearly dead since Donald Trump is president of the USA.

Lol. What a load of monkey manure.

NATO just finished conducting the huge Trident Juncture 18 exercise in Norway.

As I write, 16 nations are in Germany participating in the multinational Combined Resolve XI exercise at U.S. Army Europe's Grafenwoehr and Hohenfels training bases.
 

Lionman

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Lol. What a load of monkey manure.

Donald Trump likes to close the NATO. He's the monkey, his politics the manure.

NATO just finished conducting the huge Trident Juncture 18 exercise in Norway.

I did not say the NATO has bad soldiers.

As I write, 16 nations are in Germany participating in the multinational Combined Resolve XI exercise at U.S. Army Europe's Grafenwoehr and Hohenfels training bases.

What's nearly superflous as long as such things have still something to do with the US-army. No one knows whether the US-American soldiers will tomorrow still be in Germany.


 
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Rogue Valley

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Donald Trump likes to close the NATO. He's the monkey, his politics the manure.

Trump stopped using NATO as his Mueller-distraction many months ago. Keep up.
 

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image.jpg

The guided-missile destroyer USS Porter and the command and control ship USS Mount Whitney sail in the Black Sea during exercise Sea Breeze on July 13, 2018.


Ukraine is a partner of Nato but Ukraine is not in the military alliance so that's not enough for Nato to get off the dime on this. Parts of the Azov are too shallow anyway for destroyers to include Russian. Nobody's going to try to fight his way through the Kerch Strait under the $4 bn bridge with its roadway on Russian soil.

SecDef Mattis and the Joint Chiefs got approval from Trump before the G-20 to release directly to Ukraine two "surplus" Coast Guard cutters controlled by USN and classified as in "best condition." Seven of the ten surplus Oliver Hazard Perry class CGC are in best condition and Ukraine may get more.

Pentagon and State are negotiating with Ukraine on its request to buy "surplus" USN frigates which will almost surely be approved. Pentagon has cleared Ukraine's request for air defense missiles which are likely to be the Patriot. Javelin antitank missiles are approved. SecState Pomeo will be in Brussels Tuesday for a foreign ministers scheduled meeting. USAF has F-15C in Ukraine for the first time since 1998, deployed during summer for Operation Clear Sky 2018 which has almost a thousand air force personnel from nine countries.

Russia has fortified the Black Sea into a super anti-ship defense zone with multiple layers of sea, air, undersea, and land-based capabilities reaching out nearly to Turkey's shore. So any ship no matter how heavily armed is under threat while operating in the area. Additionally Montreux Convention limits the number of foreign ships that may operate in the Black Sea, foreign meaning, basically, not bordering it.
 

Rogue Valley

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I believe Poroshenko was referring to the Black Sea, not the Sea of Azov. 3 NATO nations have a coastline on the Black Sea.

For all practical purposes, Russia's A2D2 capability HQ in Crimea means NATO has lost/sundered military superiority over this international body of water.
 

vesper

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General Mattis gave an interview with Brett Baier at the Reagan National Defense Forum. It was excellent. I have posted the entire interview below. It hits all the hot points and worth your time.

 

Rogue Valley

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General Mattis gave an interview with Brett Baier at the Reagan National Defense Forum. It was excellent. I have posted the entire interview below. It hits all the hot points and worth your time.


The Trump Mattis is only a shadow of the USMC General Mattis.
 

vesper

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The Trump Mattis is only a shadow of the USMC General Mattis.

It is obvious you didn't even bother to watch the Mattis interview because of the time I posted it till the time you responded. Which says it all. You have your bias and be damned what Mattis himself said. No sir, General Mattis is not a shadow of the USMC because he is serving under Trump. That is your problem, the rest of us are really happy to see this man serving in his position.
 

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image.jpg

The guided-missile destroyer USS Porter and the command and control ship USS Mount Whitney sail in the Black Sea during exercise Sea Breeze on July 13, 2018.


Ukraine is a partner of Nato

No. The Ukraine needs the help of the NATO, because it has otherwise not any chance against Russia. And the NATO is an instrument in the hands of Poroschenko to play an inadequate provocating politics of strength against Russia.

but Ukraine is not in the military alliance so that's not enough for Nato to get off the dime on this. Parts of the Azov are too shallow anyway for destroyers to include Russian. Nobody's going to try to fight his way through the Kerch Strait under the $4 bn bridge with its roadway on Russian soil.

SecDef Mattis and the Joint Chiefs got approval from Trump before the G-20 to release directly to Ukraine two "surplus" Coast Guard cutters controlled by USN and classified as in "best condition." Seven of the ten surplus Oliver Hazard Perry class CGC are in best condition and Ukraine may get more.

Pentagon and State are negotiating with Ukraine on its request to buy "surplus" USN frigates which will almost surely be approved. Pentagon has cleared Ukraine's request for air defense missiles which are likely to be the Patriot. Javelin antitank missiles are approved. SecState Pomeo will be in Brussels Tuesday for a foreign ministers scheduled meeting. USAF has F-15C in Ukraine for the first time since 1998, deployed during summer for Operation Clear Sky 2018 which has almost a thousand air force personnel from nine countries.

Russia has fortified the Black Sea into a super anti-ship defense zone with multiple layers of sea, air, undersea, and land-based capabilities reaching out nearly to Turkey's shore. So any ship no matter how heavily armed is under threat while operating in the area. Additionally Montreux Convention limits the number of foreign ships that may operate in the Black Sea, foreign meaning, basically, not bordering it.

What you see in this picture is a big amount of still swimming scrap metal. The USA is not able to win a war against Russia.

 
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Tangmo

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Anyone who might think Russia has all the tough guys who are smart would need to wake up and smell the coffee...


Army Chief of Staff Gen. Mark A. Milley Tells Putin: "We will beat you. We will beat you harder than you've ever been beaten before."


Milley spent part of his career in Special Operations Forces and commanded SpOps in Afghanistan where Milley left a trail of enemy broken necks. Maybe we'll send Milley to the Kremlin where he could appear suddenly in Putin's Den.

War between Russia and the United States would be epic so as the general knows it's prospect is not to be taken lightly. However, within 30 days or so Putin would need to go nuclear to save his ass. Which is why if anyone ever grabs Putin by the neck to emphasize the point he's going to say uncle in an instant. No war will be necessary. And while we're speaking of necks and asses you'll need to pull yours out.
 

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Anyone who might think Russia has all the tough guys who are smart would need to wake up and smell the coffee...


Army Chief of Staff Gen. Mark A. Milley Tells Putin: "We will beat you. We will beat you harder than you've ever been beaten before."



Milley spent part of his career in Special Operations Forces and commanded SpOps in Afghanistan where Milley left a trail of enemy broken necks. Maybe we'll send Milley to the Kremlin where he could appear suddenly in Putin's Den.

War between Russia and the United States would be epic so as the general knows it's prospect is not to be taken lightly. However, within 30 days or so Putin would need to go nuclear to save his ass. Which is why if anyone ever grabs Putin by the neck to emphasize the point he's going to say uncle in an instant. No war will be necessary. And while we're speaking of necks and asses you'll need to pull yours out.

What an idiot. And this man is one of the highest military commanders of the USA? Or the next president?

 
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Tangmo

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What an idiot. And this man is one of the highest military commanders of the USA? Or the next president?




Springtime For Putin and Lionman. In drag.

And all the Putin-Trump-Fanboys Crowd.

The new boyz in the block at the Bighouse.

Fort+Leavenworth.jpg

Federal Penitentiary Ft. Leavenworth, Kansas Military Reservation

Among the concerns at this point is a Russian amphibious assault against Mariupol to connect Russian forces in Donbass to Crimea by land, to include absolute control of the Azov Sea. Black Sea and Sea of Azov become Lake Putin. Which in the event of your Russia-USA war would become a Nato shooting gallery without having to enter 'em. Putin btw is too short to look smart in an orange jumpsuit. Some of his fanboys would wear one well however.
 

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What are you talking about? :shock:
 
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