Bazant Misconduct website is launched[W:111]

[Fledermaus]

You are a troll. If you ask any legitimate questions, I'll answer to the best of my ability, but only for the sake of lurkers. For some people, all the evidence in the world isn't enough.

Borscht.

When presented with questions you do everything in your power to not answer directly.

On the few cases where you do answer your answer isn't even in the same Zip Code as reality.

Here is a question....

Why does no professional entity dealing with engineers, construction, firefighting or demolition concur with your claims of CD?

Here is a question....

Why do you continue to ignore the KNOWN signs of structural stability?

Here is a question....

Why do you feel firefighters are not competent to analyze the status of buildings on fire and showing structural instability?

Here is a question....

Why continue to use terms that are ignorant on their face? "Squib", "Magic", etc.





And why did you run from this thread?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/consp...7-during-oem-renovations-1998-and-1999-a.html

 

[Fledermaus]

You are a troll. If you ask any legitimate questions, I'll answer to the best of my ability, but only for the sake of lurkers. For some people, all the evidence in the world isn't enough.

For your evidence of explosives:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/conspiracy-theories/250553-evidence-explosives-wtc-complex-8.html

For where you can lay out your "New Inspection"
http://www.debatepolitics.com/consp...do-get-your-new-investigation-w-83-721-a.html

How does molten steel fit in the CD claim?
http://www.debatepolitics.com/consp...plosives-fit-into-molten-steel-theory-21.html

 

[Tony Szamboti]

Re: Bazant Misconduct website is launched

I thought the collapse was symmetrical. Now you are admitting the interior collapsed before the exterior. But if the building collapsed symmetrically then that isn't possible. For it to be truly symmetrical all columns - perimeter and core - must fail simultaneously. They are all part of the building. And doesn't the core pulling on the perimeter columns impart a force other than gravity on those components and thus is influencing the rate of collapse

Dying to see how you rationalize this one.

You are obviously desperate and now just being obstinate because you have nothing to counter with.

The symmetry is obviously about the full length and width of the building coming down at the same time, not the interior and exterior. The interior came down a second or so before the exterior. That is how a core led implosion is done.

The core was pulling mostly horizontally on the exterior columns causing them to become eccentric and buckle. It wasn't that far ahead of the exterior so it did not affect the vertical rate of collapse.

 

[Tony Szamboti]

Re: Bazant Misconduct website is launched

Not law enforcement. A DA would do. Have you even tried. Hell, you could even open a civil case - much lower standard of evidence. But you won't.

District Attorneys (DA) are the law enforcement entity that would convene a Grand Jury, in case you didn't know, and are precisely what I meant. There has certainly been attempts at getting law enforcement in NYC to move on this subject. However, even though he has jurisdiction, the Manhattan DA insists it is a federal matter and refuses to do anything.

Interestingly, the civil cases that have been brought have all been funneled through the 2nd U.S. District Court in Manhattan and they have all been dismissed for the most part on spurious grounds. On top of that 95% of victim's families waived their right to file suit by accepting the lifetime wages of the victim offered by the Bush administration in a 6 billion dollar payoff to survivors in 2002. This payoff was obviously intended to head off the types of suits you are suggesting. It can be reasonably said that the Bush administration would not have done that if there were no potential claims with merit.

 

[SanderO]

Re: Bazant Misconduct website is launched

District Attorneys (DA) are the law enforcement entity that would convene a Grand Jury, in case you didn't know, and are precisely what I meant. There has certainly been attempts at getting law enforcement in NYC to move on this subject. However, even though he has jurisdiction, the Manhattan DA insists it is a federal matter and refuses to do anything.

Interestingly, the civil cases that have been brought have all been funneled through the 2nd U.S. District Court in Manhattan and they have all been dismissed for the most part on spurious grounds. On top of that 95% of victim's families waived their right to file suit by accepting the lifetime wages of the victim offered by the Bush administration in a 6 billion dollar payoff to survivors in 2002. This payoff was obviously intended to head off the types of suits you are suggesting. It can be reasonably said that the Bush administration would not have done that if there were no potential claims with merit.

What were the claims of the plaintiffs in the dismissed suits? Presumably they were for monetary damages based on "negligence" wrongful death? Who was the defendant being sued?

 

[Mark F]

Re: Bazant Misconduct website is launched

You are obviously desperate and now just being obstinate because you have nothing to counter with.

The symmetry is obviously about the full length and width of the building coming down at the same time, not the interior and exterior. The interior came down a second or so before the exterior. That is how a core led implosion is done.

The interior and the exterior ARE the full length and width of the building. Once the interior (core) is gone all that's left is a shell, not a building. You are trying to re-define the building to suit your pointless,and implausible hush-a-boom scenario.

The core was pulling mostly horizontally on the exterior columns causing them to become eccentric and buckle. It wasn't that far ahead of the exterior so it did not affect the vertical rate of collapse.

That's clearly ridiculous. There are no more horizontal connections between the core and perimeter if the core is suddenly lower than the perimeter!!!! The core didn't get sucked inwards by a magical vortex, it DROPPED.

What any of this has to do with Z Bazant though boggles my mind.

 

[Mark F]

Re: Bazant Misconduct website is launched

District Attorneys (DA) are the law enforcement entity that would convene a Grand Jury, in case you didn't know, and are precisely what I meant. There has certainly been attempts at getting law enforcement in NYC to move on this subject. However, even though he has jurisdiction, the Manhattan DA insists it is a federal matter and refuses to do anything.

Interestingly, the civil cases that have been brought have all been funneled through the 2nd U.S. District Court in Manhattan and they have all been dismissed for the most part on spurious grounds. On top of that 95% of victim's families waived their right to file suit by accepting the lifetime wages of the victim offered by the Bush administration in a 6 billion dollar payoff to survivors in 2002. This payoff was obviously intended to head off the types of suits you are suggesting. It can be reasonably said that the Bush administration would not have done that if there were no potential claims with merit.

Which suites were dismissed on "spurious grounds"? What were those spurious grounds?

 

[Tony Szamboti]

Re: Bazant Misconduct website is launched

The interior and the exterior ARE the full length and width of the building. Once the interior (core) is gone all that's left is a shell, not a building. You are trying to re-define the building to suit your pointless,and implausible hush-a-boom scenario.



That's clearly ridiculous. There are no more horizontal connections between the core and perimeter if the core is suddenly lower than the perimeter!!!! The core didn't get sucked inwards by a magical vortex, it DROPPED.

What any of this has to do with Z Bazant though boggles my mind.

The core was cut in WTC 7. The connections between core and perimeter don't break. The perimeter would be pulled inward for a period of time before that happens. It can be shown that the connections were robust enough to do this.

I don't think I was the one who started talking about WTC 7 on this thread.

 

[Fledermaus]

Re: Bazant Misconduct website is launched

The core was cut in WTC 7. The connections between core and perimeter don't break. The perimeter would be pulled inward for a period of time before that happens. It can be shown that the connections were robust enough to do this.

I don't think I was the one who started talking about WTC 7 on this thread.

Where was the core "cut"?

 

[zyzygy]

You are a troll. If you ask any legitimate questions, I'll answer to the best of my ability, but only for the sake of lurkers. For some people, all the evidence in the world isn't enough.

How did the explosives survive the fire? That is a legitimate question.

 

[TheGoverness]

How did the explosives survive the fire? That is a legitimate question.

Yeah, wouldn't they have exploded?

 

[Tony Szamboti]

How did the explosives survive the fire? That is a legitimate question.

The demolition devices were obviously pre-positioned in WTC 7 and the fires were clearly set by arsonists. The people involved would have been one and the same, so all they had to do is not start fires on floors with demolition devices.

 

[Tony Szamboti]

Yeah, wouldn't they have exploded?

Actually, explosives like C-4 do not explode when heated. They need shock to go off and that is why blasting caps are used. In Vietnam soldiers occasionally used plastic explosive for fuel in campfires.

Depending on what type of blasting cap is used the explosive could be set off by fire due to the blasting cap being ignited, but not because fire would set off the explosive material.

None of this matters though, as a little bit of logic shows it is clear the fires were started by arsonists who would have known not to set them on floors which had demolition devices on them.

 

[mike2810]

Actually, explosives like C-4 do not explode when heated. They need shock to go off and that is why blasting caps are used. In Vietnam soldiers occasionally used plastic explosive for fuel in campfires.

Depending on what type of blasting cap is used the explosive could be set off by fire due to the blasting cap being ignited, but not because fire would set off the explosive material.

None of this matters though, as a little bit of logic shows it is clear the fires were started by arsonists who would have known not to set them on floors which had demolition devices on them.

and your evidence of arson and c4 is?

By the way, what happened to the explanation it was nanothermite and mini neutron bombs as the explosives? Or was that just for WTC1 and 2?

 

[Fledermaus]

The demolition devices were obviously pre-positioned in WTC 7 and the fires were clearly set by arsonists. The people involved would have been one and the same, so all they had to do is not start fires on floors with demolition devices.

Neither obvious nor clear.

When were they installed?

Where were they installed?

 

[Fledermaus]

Actually, explosives like C-4 do not explode when heated. They need shock to go off and that is why blasting caps are used. In Vietnam soldiers occasionally used plastic explosive for fuel in campfires.

Depending on what type of blasting cap is used the explosive could be set off by fire due to the blasting cap being ignited, but not because fire would set off the explosive material.

None of this matters though, as a little bit of logic shows it is clear the fires were started by arsonists who would have known not to set them on floors which had demolition devices on them.

If the blasting caps did not get too hot the C4 would simply burn.

The problem is blasting caps are not rated for structural fires. Even legitimate high temp resistant caps have their limitations in regards to time.

And how did the arsonists prevent additional fires?

 

[mike2810]

It was not C4. It was phlogiston. :mrgreen:

 

[Tony Szamboti]

If the blasting caps did not get too hot the C4 would simply burn.

The problem is blasting caps are not rated for structural fires. Even legitimate high temp resistant caps have their limitations in regards to time.

And how did the arsonists prevent additional fires?

The floors in WTC 7 were sealed to prevent floor to floor spread.

Logic says the fires were due to arson and thus it is likely that the fires were only set on floors which had no demolition devices.

 

[ozeco41]

It was not C4. It was phlogiston. :mrgreen:

Actually my hypothesis says "It was Santa's Custard"

And my "Santa's Custard[SUP]TM[/SUP] Hypothesis has been:
Published,
peer reviewed,
NEVER rebutted

...and is better supported by argument than Tony's claims.

 

[Fledermaus]

The floors in WTC 7 were sealed to prevent floor to floor spread.

Logic says the fires were due to arson and thus it is likely that the fires were only set on floors which had no demolition devices.

Logic say it was flaming debris from the towers collapse.

Where were your imaginary explosives located?

When were they planted?

 

[zyzygy]

The demolition devices were obviously pre-positioned in WTC 7 and the fires were clearly set by arsonists. The people involved would have been one and the same, so all they had to do is not start fires on floors with demolition devices.

Why is it obvious?

 

[Tony Szamboti]

Logic say it was flaming debris from the towers collapse.

Where were your imaginary explosives located?

When were they planted?

The demolition devices in WTC 7 where most likely planted when Rudy Giuliani's OEM bunker was installed in the building. That would be why he insisted on it being there over objections from other high level people and why it was put on the 23rd floor which makes no sense otherwise. I think Rudy created the separate OEM by taking the emergency operations duty away from the police dept. so there would be a cover for planting the demolition devices.

 

[Fledermaus]

The demolition devices in WTC 7 where most likely planted when Rudy Giuliani's OEM bunker was installed in the building. That would be why he insisted on it being there over objections from other high level people and why it was put on the 23rd floor which makes no sense otherwise. I think Rudy created the separate OEM by taking the emergency operations duty away from the police dept. so there would be a cover for planting the demolition devices.

OMFG...

Only in Hollywood would such a plan be hatched.

How long do you believe the explosives would lay dormant?

And the OEM was PLANNED WITH EXPLOSIVES IN MIND?

And these explosives went unmolested for how long?

I suppose the beams were preweakened at the same time. No?

 

[mike2810]

Actually my hypothesis says "It was Santa's Custard"

And my "Santa's Custard[SUP]TM[/SUP] Hypothesis has been:
Published,
peer reviewed,
NEVER rebutted

...and is better supported by argument than Tony's claims.

What if part of Santa Custard is phlogiston? That way we are both correct. One could say the phlogiston then has been published, peer reviewed and never rebutted. :lol:

 

[mike2810]

OMFG...

Only in Hollywood would such a plan be hatched.

How long do you believe the explosives would lay dormant?

And the OEM was PLANNED WITH EXPLOSIVES IN MIND?

And these explosives went unmolested for how long?

I suppose the beams were preweakened at the same time. No?

Good questions.

TS is at a point of playing the "what if" game. With his statements he provides no evidence that what he stated occurred.