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Basic income....another bad Utopian idea

MickeyW

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In the article Canada and some European countries just give $5-6000 to poor parents per kid. Instead of foodstamps, etc. But poor people are often dumb people. They will take the money and smoke it or put it in their arms rather than take care of the kids. So then we are back where we started with a bunch of poor neglected kids and less money to help them. Dumb Utopians!


If he lives up to his promises – and the early signs are good – Justin Trudeau is shaping up to one of the most ambitious liberal premierships in modern history. He has welcomed refugees into Canada while EU nations have begun a backlash against them, stood up to Putin over land grabs in the North Pole and, in a show of respect across the ideological divide, has confirmed he will work with Donald Trump should the situation become necessary. He’s even been photographed with two Canadian baby panda bears this week. Little practical impact there, but sterling PR work; he knows how to polish a reputation, the perfect veil under which to smuggle policies so radical that they had previously been cast adrift.
Now Canada is trying a basic income, Britain can ignore it no longer | Voices | The Independent
 

joG

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In the article Canada and some European countries just give $5-6000 to poor parents per kid. Instead of foodstamps, etc. But poor people are often dumb people. They will take the money and smoke it or put it in their arms rather than take care of the kids. So then we are back where we started with a bunch of poor neglected kids and less money to help them. Dumb Utopians!


If he lives up to his promises – and the early signs are good – Justin Trudeau is shaping up to one of the most ambitious liberal premierships in modern history. He has welcomed refugees into Canada while EU nations have begun a backlash against them, stood up to Putin over land grabs in the North Pole and, in a show of respect across the ideological divide, has confirmed he will work with Donald Trump should the situation become necessary. He’s even been photographed with two Canadian baby panda bears this week. Little practical impact there, but sterling PR work; he knows how to polish a reputation, the perfect veil under which to smuggle policies so radical that they had previously been cast adrift.
Now Canada is trying a basic income, Britain can ignore it no longer | Voices | The Independent

The US experimented with an equivalent system of negative taxes in the early 1970s, if I correctly remember the dates. The connected research seemed to be quite positive. The Finns are just now beginning an experiment too, as the social system has over-reached its limits and is detracting from economic success and holding the country back.
The main problem seems to be that public officials hold a lot of power in democratic system like ours'. As all the social bureaucracies would become redundant and quickly closed, the resistance is strong and deeply entrenched.
 

dimensionallava

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it will happen in the USA soon
 

Frank Apisa

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it will happen in the USA soon

It will, indeed, happen in the USA soon.

We will be the better for it. And at some point...after it shows itself to be a boon, the people railing against it now will claim that it was their idea all along.
 

HonestJoe

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In the article Canada and some European countries just give $5-6000 to poor parents per kid. Instead of foodstamps, etc. But poor people are often dumb people. They will take the money and smoke it or put it in their arms rather than take care of the kids. So then we are back where we started with a bunch of poor neglected kids and less money to help them. Dumb Utopians!
Those people would have been getting similar amounts of money via the current system anyway so in those cases it’s not a loss. One key idea of this system is that without means testing it’s much cheaper to run, allowing more money to be spent on actually helping people. It also encourages people to work since they don’t have the vicious circle of losing means-tested benefits because of their wages, leaving them no better or even worse off for working.

No system is without difficulties and imperfections but you’ve completely misidentified one here and this system is still well worth looking in to.
 

Chagos

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For convenience's sake, I'll just c & p my reply from the "Switzerland" thread
Put the costs for those already on the dole into the equation. Unemployment benefits, health care even for those unable to pay any premium (in countries where the health care system requires individual contributions) and none of those supported contributing much to the economy by way of taxes and hardly by consuming.

The idea, where very much of model status designed to provoke discussion, isn't that daft in the long run. Maybe not in 50 years but in a hundred all Western societies will follow a model of some such nature. Simply because there won't be enough work around anymore to accommodate all job seekers.

OTH the idiotic income disparities between a derivative juggler that produces absolutely nothing and a nurse working very much in the interest of overall society might still be there. But the nurse has an income free of worry over, out of possible naive idealism, having chosen the wrong profession.

The Swiss idea also comprised that big income (from corporations to said derivative juggler) pay into the kitty.

If anybody believes this to be socialism on a rampage to destroy capitalism, they don't get out much. Or they'd notice that capitalism is pretty much dead, the current system having absolutely nothing to do with it.

The initiator of the Swiss "demonstration" is a business entrepreneur BTW.
 

Grand Mal

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In the article Canada and some European countries just give $5-6000 to poor parents per kid. Instead of foodstamps, etc. But poor people are often dumb people. They will take the money and smoke it or put it in their arms rather than take care of the kids. So then we are back where we started with a bunch of poor neglected kids and less money to help them. Dumb Utopians!


If he lives up to his promises – and the early signs are good – Justin Trudeau is shaping up to one of the most ambitious liberal premierships in modern history. He has welcomed refugees into Canada while EU nations have begun a backlash against them, stood up to Putin over land grabs in the North Pole and, in a show of respect across the ideological divide, has confirmed he will work with Donald Trump should the situation become necessary. He’s even been photographed with two Canadian baby panda bears this week. Little practical impact there, but sterling PR work; he knows how to polish a reputation, the perfect veil under which to smuggle policies so radical that they had previously been cast adrift.
Now Canada is trying a basic income, Britain can ignore it no longer | Voices | The Independent

Don't worry, we're doing fine. Just keep on keepin' on- it's working out for you all so far, society-wise, but we're gonna continue to do it our way. Don't think we're ignoring your advice, we're just considering the source.
 
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