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Basement forums - seeking feedback please

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Schweddy

Schweddy

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All,

The moderation team is seeking feedback about the basement forum. There have been some concerns about the the basement forums that need to be resolved. The moderation team is considering elliminating and/or changing its current structure.

For those interested, please take a moment and let us know the following. If you wish to be anonymous, feel free to PM any of the mods.

What is the basement to you?
What would you change if you could?
What do you like or dislike about it?

Do you regularly visit the basement and is it a feature that you would miss if it were to go away?

What are your thoughts on fully private and subscription based basement forums?
 
vauge said:
All,

The moderation team is seeking feedback about the basement forum. There have been some concerns about the the basement forums that need to be resolved. The moderation team is considering elliminating and/or changing its current structure.

For those interested, please take a moment and let us know the following. If you wish to be anonymous, feel free to PM any of the mods.

What is the basement to you?
What would you change if you could?
What do you like or dislike about it?

Do you regularly visit the basement and is it a feature that you would miss if it were to go away?

What are your thoughts on fully private and subscription based basement forums?
Click to expand...



I think the basement is crap.
The only possible positive use I can see it being put to is that when threads go wrong (and it is through no fault of the thread starter) perhaps the thread could be sent there and somehow rehabilitated, or at least continued.
However, in regard to the number of threads I've posted that have been ruined by other forum members' trolling, the moderating team has invariably and without exception chosen to lock and archive those threads rather than allow them to continue in the basement.
Therefore, from my perspective, the basement is without any purpose or function at all, and you might as well get rid of it.
Or not.
It doesn't really matter.
 
vauge said:
All,

The moderation team is seeking feedback about the basement forum. There have been some concerns about the the basement forums that need to be resolved. The moderation team is considering elliminating and/or changing its current structure.

For those interested, please take a moment and let us know the following. If you wish to be anonymous, feel free to PM any of the mods.

What is the basement to you?
What would you change if you could?
What do you like or dislike about it?

Do you regularly visit the basement and is it a feature that you would miss if it were to go away?

What are your thoughts on fully private and subscription based basement forums?
Click to expand...

I love the basement and it should be unmoderated so you mods shouldn't even be worrying your pretty heads thinking about it. It's the warden's domain. And if folks don't like the basement then they shouldn't wander down the stairs. Attepting to hang curtains and pretty it up is just so fvcking wrong! :shock:
 
Unless the basement is taking up expensive bandwidth and is not getting proportionate hits, I suggest you just leave it alone and just leave it to it's own devices.

It's a sanctuary. It's a chopping block.

A true testament to freedom of speech.

Plus....Warden teacher is one of the most creative humorists I have found to date, on the entire internet. And he is ours.
 
I post in the basement. I don't always use it to attack people, though,which seems to be its primary purpose. I've always wondered whether the idea of taking it to the basement doesn't always work the way it might be intended because when people have greater freedom to attack one another in the basement than they do upstairs, the hard feelings are only magnified and eventually return to the surface again. If the idea of the basement is to let people blow off steam, are people really just blowing off steam or are they just reinforcing their antipathies?


Still, I like the idea of the basement if the basement could be a place where there was less structure and less of a need to stay on topic. Just having a place where people could joke around a little more would be nice.
 
I have a suggestion that could possibly be integrated into the basement, or used in an entirely different area of the site.

all to often, good threads are moved into the basement because of the actions of 1 or 2 posters. once a thread makes it to the basement, the possibility of intelligent discussion pretty much disappears. so, create an area where only people with X number of posts and a warning level below Y can participate.

threads that cannot stay upstairs, but which still have potential for discussion can be moved here, where posters who have a history of trolling and/or personal attacks but haven't been banned, will not be able to participate. this area could still be moderated, but given that only people who have a history good behavior would be allowed in, moderation would probably be unnecessary.
 
The way I see it, the basement is a place where we can all let off steam without being banned. LOL. But seriously, it has served a great purpose. I can't begin to count the number of times that moderators upstairs have only had to say in a warning "take it to the basement". You can look at the basement as a release valve for hostility between members. In addition, forums without a place to post where the rules are "no rules" are also very boring.

Here are a couple of more reasons to keep the basement:

1) teacher, the warden. He has become a fixture there, and with the Basement gone, he will have no home. Not only that, but we will all miss how he gets out his whips and chains, and makes the trolls wish their threads had never been sent down there. In short, teacher is one of the aspects of debate politics that is missing in all other forums. He is an institution, or should at least be in one. Better to have him here instead. :)

2) The other reason is selfish. Last year, I came up with the Asshat of the Year award, and as everybody knows, this cannot be presented upstairs, so with the Basement gone, so does Asshat of the Year. Was sincerely hoping that the Asshat of the Year award would become another DP institution, albeit a rather smelly one. LOL.

3) Almost forgot - I also came up with the name "The Sewer" as one of the Basement's sub forums. With the Basement gone, the serious thinking that I put into this (not to mention the many bottles of Jack Black I drank while thinking) will all have been in vain. :)
 
Tashah (from "Announcements") said:
However, this also poses a conundrum because certain aspects of the Basement environment are inimical to the good reputation and management of Debate Politics
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What's the "real" issue. If you want useful feedback, you kinda need to be a little more specific, IMHO.
 
Felicity said:
What's the "real" issue. If you want useful feedback, you kinda need to be a little more specific, IMHO.
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We have made no decisions. The Basement might not change one bit.
We are literally asking for your help. Thank you all that have contributed in this thread - more thoughts are appreciated. Good and bad.

There are several reasons for the feedback request:

1. Structure - The structure of the basement has come under criticism thus we are reviewing it as a whole and attempting not to leave any stone unturned.

2. Definition - Disagreements what the basement *is*. Therefore, we need to know - what is the basement to YOU?

3. Integrity - Concerns that The Basement might undermine the integrity of DP. We have a very strong sense of loyalty here at DP. Is The Basement a hinderance or an enabler - or neither? Should we see it as a success, remove or ignore it?

4. Low participation - Concerns that The Basement is **very** popular in viewing, but not much in participation. However, there are no concerns of bandwidth. Is it because as one person put it, "The Basement is like a car wreck...everyone likes to look, but most don;t want to be part of it."? Or could it be that it needs better organization and stricter rules?

5. First Impression - You most likely did not know about the basement before joining (that is by design) - what did you think on first impression and then after browsing around in there? Opps! Cat is out of bag for you lurkers. lol
 
I don't use the basement, but I have gone in there to read it when I figuring out what all the forums were.

I say keep it.

Personally, I don't care for the censorship on the main forums but as an admin of my own forums (and for others) for nigh on 10 years, I completely respect the rights of the forum administrators to restrict whatever type of speech they want. I've left a number of forums over the years (or just not joined at all) because they were too strictly censored. DP does censor and I don't like it, but it's not too bad and I can deal with it since it doesn't hamper what I wish to say too much. And, it's balanced by "The Basement".

The basement provides a outlet that the rest of the more heavily moderated forums don't allow. I think it's a good compromise.

I am a huge, huge stickler and proponent of freedom of speech/expression. I find the basement to be an example of exactly what freedom of speech/expression *IS*.

People do not have to read it. People do not have to participate. Those that wish to can, those that do not can abstain. It's very simple, it's very effective, and it's very fair. Instead of making DP look "bad", IMO it makes DP look good. (as freedom of speech is always 'good', IMO)

Keep it.

Edit:
What the basement is? As I understand it, the Basement is for folks to pretty much say what they want to one another in an unmoderated environment. I think that's the way it should remain.

My first impression of it? "Kudos to the admin for making this available to members!"
 
vauge said:
4. Low participation - Concerns that The Basement is **very** popular in viewing, but not much in participation. However, there are no concerns of bandwidth. Is it because as one person put it, "The Basement is like a car wreck...everyone likes to look, but most don;t want to be part of it."? Or could it be that it needs better organization and stricter rules?
Click to expand...

If you're gonna put "stricter rules" in place in the basement you might as well just get rid of it. :roll:

5. First Impression - You most likely did not know about the basement before joining (that is by design) - what did you think on first impression and then after browsing around in there? Opps! Cat is out of bag for you lurkers. lol
Click to expand...
The basement is mostly just funny. To me it always has been. On the few occasions that I went there actually angry the "venting" eventually turned ridiculous enough to make me laugh.
 
I don't hang out in the basement much, because the general discourse is not particularly interesting to me, with some exceptions.

However, I think it does provide a purpose in a place where people can vent and flame or bitch or whatever they feel they need to do outside the normal discussion threads.

Maybe as a compromise you can set it so that the basement threads do not appear when you click the "new posts" button.
 
I used to hang out in the basement a lot when it was a place for a little off-color humor. Lately, its just a place for people to make personal attacks without being moderated. I rarely ever go into the basement anymore because its mindless and pointless. If you can't hack it in the "upstairs" then why bother coming to DP at all.

I say the basement can go or stay...it makes no difference to me. But if you do get rid of it, expect your job moderating the rest of the forum to be a bit more time consuming.
 
Well...I avoided the basement for a long time. I found most of it pointless and crass (still do). I have used the basement on one occasion when I felt a situation had not been adequately dealt with by the moderation team and, by chance, an opportunity presented itself. The basement gave me recourse to demonstrate that what I considered personal bullying was unacceptable when directed toward me simply because I hold a minority position on the topic and hold moral convictions. In that case, I used the basement to air my grievance and dose the offending party with his own vitriol. In my opinion, it was ugly, but necessary, and the basement served a purpose that could not find redress in the main forums.

I vote to keep it, BUT....limit it to actual grievances that have to be stated in the OP, no holds barred, and drop all the nasty smack that is just titillating or blatant offensive naughty-talk for no reason other than antago0nizing others (anything from Billo or PTSDkid) or redundant personal obsessions (like Volker's thing about Tashah :roll: ) ~~and keep posters to the topic.
 
If you intend on "limiting" the basement, censor it or regulate it it, what's would be the point of having it to begin with?

The basement is like a natural forest. Let it grow or die on it's own accord. It's not hurting anybody just the way it is.

Nobody is forced to go there.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Just my two-cents.
 
Keep the basement. It serves a purpose to keep people here at DP. All the "freedom of speech" fundies that don't believe in respectable discourse have a place to go, and all the threads that move away from civil debate have a home to go to.

I think if you cut the basement, you would lose some members to somewhere else. It helps to keep the banning at a low level, therefore letting people stay on the site.
 
I like the basement. I think it's a fun place to go and be able to talk freely about whatever. Of course there are a couple of bad apples but that can be expected anywhere. TT lists-- classic!
I do frequent it alot and do post there.
 
Since Vauge is giving a "thanks" to all posts in this thread, this post is a cheap, shameless self-promotion in an underhanded attempt to get another one. :mrgreen:
 
Ain't gunna happen man. lol
 
I like the basement,You can practically say anything you want and if a thread gets out of hand it usually gets sent down there and people can still participate in that thread.
 
jamesrage said:
I like the basement,You can practically say anything you want and if a thread gets out of hand it usually gets sent down there and people can still participate in that thread.
Click to expand...

Yea, its kind of a lightning rod that helps keep the upstairs clean. :)
 
The Moderation Team thanks all of you for your suggestions and input. We have arrived at a consensus, and will be implimenting a few changes in the near future. We will keep you up to speed.
 
Below is a list that will soon be implemented in the basement. When they are complete - an announcement will be made. Some of these changes will be made slowly.

Thank you all for your feedback. :)

Basement Access - We will be working on a system that allows only folks with zero or very little warning points access. We view the basement as fun and entertaining - so it should be a privilege with worthy adversaries. (thanks star2589!)

Warden - We will be seeking an additional warden so that they can work as a team to help it grow and continue to be an interesting alternative.

Removal of two sub-basement forums
Mod smack back has been removed - it was rarely used. If you wish to discuss staff actions, as always, do so via PM and/or email to vauge.
Partisan Bickering has been removed. Again, it wasn't utilized much at all.

More basement forum changes may be coming as we create and work with the new basement team.
 
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