“The bill, if enacted into law, would help to facilitate the culture of life to which our Nation aspires,” the White House also said in a statement. “Additionally, the bill would promote a science-based approach to unborn life, as recent advancements have revealed that the physical structures necessary to experience pain are developed within 20 weeks of fertilization.”
The measure, if enacted into law, would allow the procedure after 20 weeks in cases of rape, incest or to save the life of the mother and would not penalize women. However, it would criminalize other abortions after 20 weeks and punish abortion providers with a maximum five-year jail sentence.
The landmark 1973 Supreme Court case Roe v. Wade protects women’s right to have an abortion. However, more than a dozen states now ban them after 20 weeks.
“It’s science: unborn babies feel pain by at least 20 weeks. Late, dismemberment abortions are too extreme for America. #TheyFeelPain,” bill sponsor Rep. Trent Franks, R-Ariz., tweeted ahead of the vote Monday.
House passes 20-week abortion ban, with Trump White House support | Fox News
Let's bring up science and facts. The evidence is overwhelming that a fetus feels pain in the womb. If this legislation bans late-term abortion on that scientific fact, I support it.
It's stupid, it's based on the fetus 'being able to feel pain' during an abortion. What blanket ignorance! If the procedure takes place, there are options to make it painless for the unborn. Like a lethal injection.
The focus on pain is just to use emotion to get the ignorant up in arms. No pain is necessary. Do people really think that modern medical professionals wont use it?
Not to mention that elective abortions dont even take place that late. It's not even an issue. It is useless, feel-good, self-righteous legislation.
The 'pain' part is completely bull****, used to prey on the weak-minded emotional people or the uneducated (on the issue).
And there are indeed cases where that is not enough time to determine major physical or mental maladies in the unborn. OTOH, women do not have "elective" abortions that late, so it's just useless, feel-good, dishonest legislation. The House wasting taxpayer time and $. Misleading regular people, making them stooges, in order to support their future election agendas.
Can you please explain why the bill is needed? How many elective abortions occur after 21 weeks?
That pain 'theory' makes no difference whatsoever when you consider that just like any other medical procedure, Drs. can...and do...provide provide all manner of pain prevention, including anesthetic or lethal injection. There is no reason at all that there should be any pain involved for the unborn.
Again, that is just plain emotional rhetoric designed to influence the ignorant (on the issue) or the uneducated...people who cant be bothered to actually learn the truth about things they get all upset about. Some because they want that drama, that self-righteousness, to wallow in their judgement.
With a dishonestly publicized bill (no need for pain at all), and one that's not really necessary (as such elective abortions are rare), it's irresponsible IMO for them to waste time and taxpayer $ doing this.
Would you agree that it is an intentional stepping stone on the path to overall reducing a woman's right to abortion (and just BS about protecting unborn "babies" from pain)?
House passes 20-week abortion ban, with Trump White House support | Fox News
Let's bring up science and facts. The evidence is overwhelming that a fetus feels pain in the womb. If this legislation bans late-term abortion on that scientific fact, I support it.
From the thread already running in Breaking News: Mainstream Media:
I love this 20 week ban because it shows the hypocrisy of both sides. Those are all the same question asked when people want to enact gun control but somehow gun control for the left is a righteous cause that transcends facts and reason and it the same with the 20 week ban.
I am fully pro life and would like to see a full ban on abortions with the 2 exceptions, however I can also see this 20 week ban for what it is. Something that won't stop hardly an abortions and is just a way to score political points with religious voters
How about the pain of doubt and uncertainty as the mother contemplates the murder of her unborn.
The soul is conscious at conception although the memory is difficult to access.
Much unconscious trauma is stored in the personality from the mother having sex during pregnancy which restricts the flow of oxygen to the fetus.
House passes 20-week abortion ban, with Trump White House support | Fox News
Let's bring up science and facts. The evidence is overwhelming that a fetus feels pain in the womb. If this legislation bans late-term abortion on that scientific fact, I support it.
Please tell us what the hypocrisy is?
I posted facts.
IMO our 2A rights are incredibly important and I fight useless, feel-good attempts at resistriction all the time. I also stand against the restrictions that will empower criminals while erroding law-abiding citizens' defense.
So here's another fact: the unborn have no rights. Women do. What you suggest would allow the infringement of many of women's rights.
Now would you like to continue to discuss hypocrisy? Or just provide facts that refute mine?
Im prolife so please save the over the top loony tune rantings. This conversation is about science and facts.
Well there are consequences to abortion, which people often try to deny. But life is full of very difficult decisions. We all must make them.How about the pain of doubt and uncertainty as the mother contemplates the murder of her unborn.
We cannot base laws on this kind of belief. It's basically an institutionalized fantasy.The soul is conscious at conception although the memory is difficult to access.
Much unconscious trauma is stored in the personality from the mother having sex during pregnancy which restricts the flow of oxygen to the fetus.
While I'm prolife and support restrictions I have never seen any science and facts that support that fetuses feel pain at 20 weeks. The lowest agreed consensus I have seen is at 24 weeks due to connections from the periphery to the cortex. I would find that very interesting, can you provide that to us please.
House passes 20-week abortion ban, with Trump White House support | Fox News
Let's bring up science and facts. The evidence is overwhelming that a fetus feels pain in the womb. If this legislation bans late-term abortion on that scientific fact, I support it.
http://www.doctorsonfetalpain.com/
Medscape: Medscape Access
From the preface of "New Insights into Prenatal Stress: Immediate-and Long-Term Effects on the Fetus and Their Timing,"
KJ O'Donnell, N Reissland, V Glover - Neonatal Pain, 2017 - Springer
A long line research has shown how, from the first moment onwards in that process of perfectly coordinated development that characterizes the life of the embryo, a human being gradually emerges who is increasingly able to interact with his or her environment. Despite neurosensory immaturity, some unsuspected perceptive abilities have been found in the fetus, particularly in regard to the perception of pain, which can be also deeper in the following phases of development, that is, in the child once it has been born. However, the large amount of scientific evidence attesting to the fact that the fetus can already feel pain around halfway through the pregnancy have not been welcomed by the international scientific community; in fact, very varying positions are recorded, with inevitable consequences at both the clinical and the ethical level.
The issue of fetal pain is one of the so-called border subjects, which go well over the positive data of the experimental study to involve the minds and consciences of those contemplating it, arousing opposing reactions and discordant opinions. In the political arena too, the issue of fetal pain has been enlisted on one side or the other or given rise to controversies, as has been recently seen in USA. If the scientific data are accompanied with resistance and interpretation, it is evident, in some cases, that people will select their data depending on which way they want to argue, in favour of a particular thesis.
Nonpharmacological_Treatment_of_Neonatal_Pain.pdf
[PDF]researchgate.net
One frequently cited article is L. Giuntini & G. Amato, Analgesic Procedures in Newborns., in NEONATAL PAIN 73 (Giuseppe Buonocore & Carlo V. Bellieni ed., 2007).
If anesthesia is routinely administered during prenatal surgeries, why?
I did not follow up on any of your sources but do they address the use of pain remediation methods that prevent pain? Which are indeed available.
And thus make the issue moot.
:roll: I never said you were a hypocrite
I was simply pointing out how this 20 week ban is the rights version of gun control. I never meant to imply that you were the hypocrite.
As fun the unborn not having rights I think that's something that will be looked back on in a hundred years as an example of how barbaric our society is.
Maybe I should have quoted the OP, I think I'll go ahead and change this for you.
Depending on your definition as good as every living being "feels" "pain".personally I don't see why feeling pain should be a criterion in any case. We allow so many fully grow people to die in pain, that it doesn't seem we really care unless we want to argue our position or ideology. .
Please tell us what the hypocrisy is?
I posted facts.
IMO our 2A rights are incredibly important and I fight useless, feel-good attempts at resistriction all the time. I also stand against the restrictions that will empower criminals while erroding law-abiding citizens' defense.
So here's another fact: the unborn have no rights. Women do. What you suggest would allow the infringement of many of women's rights.
Now would you like to continue to discuss hypocrisy? Or just provide facts that refute mine?
So then no.I think you should follow up and come to your own conclusions.
The real lie behind this type of legislation is that even if there was a possibility of pain, there are commonly used medical methods to prevent it. Such as anesthetic or lethal injection.
And I dont think people really believe that Drs are going to needlessly cause pain to the unborn.
To argue unborn have no rights, while women do, is hypocritical or absurd in a case of existential ethics. It is a false argument due to its circularity.
I'm aware that was going to be my next question about procedures and how 20wk abortions are performed. Again while I'm prolife I do not support nonsense and sensational false claims. They are counter productive and hurt the cause.
Well there are consequences to abortion, which people often try to deny. But life is full of very difficult decisions. We all must make them.
We cannot base laws on this kind of belief. It's basically an institutionalized fantasy.
Please provide peer-reviewed medical sources to substantiate this.
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