Banned Techniques Yielded ‘High Value Information,’ Memo Says

WASHINGTON – President Obama’s national intelligence director told colleagues in a private memo last week that the harsh interrogation techniques banned by the White House did produce significant information that helped the nation in its struggle with terrorists.

“High value information came from interrogations in which those methods were used and provided a deeper understanding of the al Qa’ida organization that was attacking this country,” Adm. Dennis C. Blair, the intelligence director, wrote in a memo to his staff last Thursday.

Admiral Blair sent his memo on the same day the administration publicly released secret Bush administration legal memos authorizing the use of interrogation methods that the Obama White House has deemed to be illegal torture. Among other things, the Bush administration memos revealed that two captured Qaeda operatives were subjected to a form of near-drowning known as waterboarding a total of 266 times.

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Admiral Blair’s assessment that the interrogation methods did produce important information was deleted from a condensed version of his memo released to the media last Thursday. Also deleted was a line in which he empathized with his predecessors who originally approved some of the harsh tactics after the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.

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...

Several news accounts, including one in the New York Times last week, have quoted former intelligence officials saying the harsh interrogation of Abu Zubaydah, a Qaeda operative who was waterboarded 83 times, did not produce information that foiled terror plots. The Bush administration has long argued that harsh questioning of Qaeda operatives like Zubaydah helped prevent a planned attack on Los Angeles and cited passages in the memos released last week to bolster that conclusion.

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http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/22/us/politics/22blair.html?_r=1


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Politically Obama screwed the pooch on this.
Thinking to cash in with the lunatic fringe he made a fringe issue into a central issue and now people want to know the WHOLE story...and that doesn't fit the charade he wished to capitalize on.

I suspect he and much of the media will suddenly have amnesia on this issue and try as quickly as possible to change focus to something else.


I think its important to note..
They edited out anything contradicting their story in a memo released by a frigging ADMIRAL.
Much of the media made up a story to go along with the Obama administrations selective use of information made public.

(interesting that the New York Times mentions the New York Times "reporting" such..)

High value is a matter of opinion. Torture has specific uses, it is sometimes good for getting info on specific plans and only if you have other info to back it up and enough knowledgbe to trawl through the usual large amount of dubious info thrown in.

But whether it gives decent info is something very different to whether it should be used, whether it is worth the dishonour and the precedent.

from the same article:

"The information gained from these techniques was valuable in some instances, but there is no way of knowing whether the same information could have been obtained through other means,” Admiral Blair said in a written statement issued last night. “The bottom line is these techniques have hurt our image around the world, the damage they have done to our interests far outweighed whatever benefit they gave us and they are not essential to our national security."

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Triad said:

...
I think its important to note..

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I think the American people "note" and understand that we should never mortgage our values and principles as a nation and ever engage in use of torture methods. The ends do not justify the means. Period

disneydude said:

I think the American people "note" and understand that we should never mortgage our values and principles as a nation and ever engage in use of torture methods. The ends do not justify the means. Period

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It's better to let people die then offend the weak by using "torture".

MrVicchio said:

It's better to let people die then offend the weak by using "torture".

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Sometimes it is better to allow some to die than engage in complete dishonour and abandon all principles and civility. Anything else is the greed of Jacobins, scheming calculators who have no time for virtue and think only in terms of the most base of factors.

Wessexman said:

Sometimes it is better to allow some to die than engage in complete dishonour and abandon all principles and civility. Anything else is the greed of Jacobins, scheming calculators who have no time for virtue and think only in terms of the most base of factors.

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I feel so much safer knowing people like you are in the WH right now. I mean, who cares if I and my family happen to die... I can die knowing my country didn't water board some guy who COULD have saved my life.
:roll:

Seriously, Al-Quada needs to stopmucking around and nuke New York City so the world can see what's really at stake. Beter yet, Nuke New York and we find out that the USA had a man in custordy that KNEW of the attack and could have stopped it, but we were too "nice" and didn't do anything.

MrVicchio said:

Seriously, Al-Quada needs to stopmucking around and nuke New York City so the world can see what's really at stake. Beter yet, Nuke New York and we find out that the USA had a man in custordy that KNEW of the attack and could have stopped it, but we were too "nice" and didn't do anything.

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Wow, rooting for the enemy to nuke NYC. Sickening.

I personally don't understand - nor will I ever understand - an American citizen endorsing torture on another human being for purposes of information, security, or both. Far too many people rally behind the belief that we are engaging in torture to protect our country, but what about the basic human values we believe in? If torture and cruelty become policy, then so much for our belief in individual rights. The Constitution recognizes that man has an inherent right, not bestowed by the state or laws, to liberty of person and personal dignity - including the right to be free of cruelty. The spirit and ideals in the Constitution applies to all human beings, not just those in America. It even applies to those designated as 'unlawful enemy combatants.' The Constitution embodies every ideal and value we believe in as a nation, and that better men than myself gave their lives to secure. I don't think we should throw all this away just to get information which could be gathered in a more humane way. Honestly...the fact that so many people embrace torture as potential policy is somewhat disturbing to me.

I'm not sure if McCain ever flip-flopped on the torture issue, but he had a damn good quote on the subject.

"Our enemies didn't adhere to the Geneva Convention. Many of my comrades were subjected to very cruel, very inhumane and degrading treatment, a few of them even unto death. But every one of us -- every single one of us -- knew and took great strength from the belief that we were different from our enemies, that we were better than them, that we, if the roles were reversed, would not disgrace ourselves by committing or countenancing such mistreatment of them." - John McCain

TheNextEra said:

Wow, rooting for the enemy to nuke NYC. Sickening.

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That's what happens when people watch too much 24.

MrVicchio said:

It's better to let people die then offend the weak by using "torture".

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Your post simply shows how little you understand. Its not about "offending the weak" its about selling your soul as a country. If you allow terrorists to dictate how you live by altering your values and forfeiting your ethics and morals, than the terrorists have accomplished the very thing that we try so hard to prevent.

MrVicchio said:

I feel so much safer knowing people like you are in the WH right now. I mean, who cares if I and my family happen to die... I can die knowing my country didn't water board some guy who COULD have saved my life.

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What do you mean people like me? Tory Gentlemen? Burkean Conservatives? Radical decentralists? Men of honour?

Believe me it is you who has the most in common with Barry.

And when did I say didn't care, I simply said I would not countenance any means to achieve security unlike some. Such is the creed of fools and tyrants.

Seriously, Al-Quada needs to stopmucking around and nuke New York City so the world can see what's really at stake. Beter yet, Nuke New York and we find out that the USA had a man in custordy that KNEW of the attack and could have stopped it, but we were too "nice" and didn't do anything.

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Wtf? In Soccer we'd call that an own goal, you've made yourself look stupid.

Lightdemon said:

That's what happens when people watch too much 24.

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If there is a post of the day award on the site I recommend this post. It says it all.

disneydude said:

I think the American people "note" and understand that we should never mortgage our values and principles as a nation and ever engage in use of torture methods. The ends do not justify the means. Period

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That is cute.... except for the fact that your perfectly willing to trod all over those "values and principles" in order to demonize political opponents.
You are even seemingly willing to do that knowing you have only half the information.

The American People deserve both sides of the story. Not simply the bits Obama wishes to use to pander to extreme leftist who don't even care if they only have half the story.

Wessexman said:

Sometimes it is better to allow some to die than engage in complete dishonour and abandon all principles and civility. Anything else is the greed of Jacobins, scheming calculators who have no time for virtue and think only in terms of the most base of factors.

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Who decides?

You are holding a man captive who knows about a pending terrorist attack in the town where your family lives: wife, sons, daughters. If you can learn what that attack is, your family will live. Fail to learn anything of what he knows and your family will die.

Do you torture and/or waterboard? Or do you allow your wife and family to die?

disneydude said:

Your post simply shows how little you understand. Its not about "offending the weak" its about selling your soul as a country. If you allow terrorists to dictate how you live by altering your values and forfeiting your ethics and morals, than the terrorists have accomplished the very thing that we try so hard to prevent.

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Don't know about you, but killing/destroying/eradicating my enemies has always been a value of mine. Only thing a terrorist changes for me is target selection.

celticlord said:

Who decides?

You are holding a man captive who knows about a pending terrorist attack in the town where your family lives: wife, sons, daughters. If you can learn what that attack is, your family will live. Fail to learn anything of what he knows and your family will die.

Do you torture and/or waterboard? Or do you allow your wife and family to die?

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Are you trying to ask the person to choose between country and family?

celticlord said:

Who decides?

You are holding a man captive who knows about a pending terrorist attack in the town where your family lives: wife, sons, daughters. If you can learn what that attack is, your family will live. Fail to learn anything of what he knows and your family will die.

Do you torture and/or waterboard? Or do you allow your wife and family to die?

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:rofl


The clock is ticking....

Sometimes I wonder if you guys are actually serious.

Lightdemon said:

Are you trying to ask the person to choose between country and family?

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No. Wessexman proposed that it was necessary to allow some to die for the sake of one's principles. I would like to know if he is prepared to apply that logic to his own kin.

When Abraham made ready to sacrifice Isaac, God stayed his hand at the last. Terrorists are not so benign.

Wessexman said:

Sometimes I wonder if you guys are actually serious.

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More serious than you, apparently.

So how many of your family have you sacrificed?

celticlord said:

More serious than you, apparently.

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Well if you can't laugh as they say...... :2razz:

celticlord said:

No. Wessexman proposed that it was necessary to allow some to die for the sake of one's principles. I would like to know if he is prepared to apply that logic to his own kin.

When Abraham made ready to sacrifice Isaac, God stayed his hand at the last. Terrorists are not so benign.

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doesn't that put it out of context then?

I didn't see his statement as a personal principle. It was more of a statement of which is applied in a collective sense. You know, as in the entire country's principles.

Lightdemon said:

doesn't that put it out of context then?

I didn't see his statement as a personal principle. It was more of a statement of which is applied in a collective sense. You know, as in the entire country's principles.

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All principles are personal. Countries do not have principles. Nations do not have principles. Only individuals can have principles.

celticlord said:

No. Wessexman proposed that it was necessary to allow some to die for the sake of one's principles. I would like to know if he is prepared to apply that logic to his own kin.
.

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I didn't say it was "necessary". I simply said meant that to maintain honour and prciniples that some courses of action should be ruled out even if we think this may slightly increase the risk of terrorism, as is the case in hand.

Your situation was silly. I would hardly be allowed to question detainees if my family was being directly threatened nor are any of these cases in the 24-like scenrios you keep positing or implying.

Triad said:

That is cute.... except for the fact that your perfectly willing to trod all over those "values and principles" in order to demonize political opponents.

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:rofl Did YOU actually say this?!!! This precisely what you do in pretty much each and every post you make. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.