• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Ban on ‘Excessive’ Gas Prices Heading for House Vote

Him (I think) like me lived through the 1970s.

BTW how about just drill more, be pro pipeline and stop the lefts 40 year war on coal?
Get a battery and don’t worry about gas
 
Which means the free market created the problem.
Not really. You need supply chains regardless of what kind if market you have and recalls similarly can happen regarfless of the market.

So just because these problems happened in a free market is does not follow that they can only happen in a free market.
 
And you think that somehow that is only problem in free market economies? As if there aren’t thriving black markets in planned economies.

And further your own article doesn’t even imply it’s a real problem, in fact they say almost the opposite:

“While scalpers are likely exacerbating the situation, it’s unclear how many of them are snatching supply from the grasp of parents and reselling it at higher prices. Most retailers have implemented strict limits on the number of cans a person can buy.”
 
And you think that somehow that is only problem in free market economies? As if there aren’t thriving black markets in planned economies.

And further your own article doesn’t even imply it’s a real problem, in fact they say almost the opposite:

“While scalpers are likely exacerbating the situation, it’s unclear how many of them are snatching supply from the grasp of parents and reselling it at higher prices. Most retailers have implemented strict limits on the number of cans a person can buy.”
I certainly don't think that's the only problem.


"THE ABBOTT NUTRITION facility in Sturgis, Michigan, which produces much of the U.S. supply of baby formula, shut down in February, bringing production lines to a grinding halt. Following a voluntary recall and investigation by the Food and Drug Administration and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the stoppage stemmed from a bacterial outbreak whose effects would be felt months later.

Starting last September, five babies who had consumed the plant’s formula contracted bacterial infections.

Two of them died."


 



When this fails, next comes price controls and pretty soon you will be waiting in line for 4 hours to buy gas at a "fair" price.


View attachment 67390501
Price gouging is already illegal.

But then, no one expects these dimwits to know that.
 
What makes the price a "gouge"?
Well, let's see now, if:
  1. your cost of running your retail operation has not changed,
  2. your cost of running your delivery network has not changed,
  3. your cost of running your warehouse operation has not changed,
  4. your cost of production has not changed,
  5. your cost of extraction has not changed,
  6. your cost of raw materials has not changed, but
  7. you have raised your retail price because you have panicked your customers into believing that your costs have gone up due to the fact that someone else in some other country has to pay more than you are paying for one or more of the above,
sort of qualifies - doesn't it?
 
Him (I think) like me lived through the 1970s.

BTW how about just drill more, be pro pipeline and stop the lefts 40 year war on coal?
Did you know that you could increase American domestic crude oil production to 500% of its current level and not actually manage to produce much more than an additional 3% of American refinery output?

Did you know that if you did increase American refinery output by that 3%, the odds are that your actual net increase would be a NEGATIVE number due to the loss of refining capacity due to breakdowns and accidents?
 
Well, let's see now, if:
  1. your cost of running your retail operation has not changed,
  2. your cost of running your delivery network has not changed,
  3. your cost of running your warehouse operation has not changed,
  4. your cost of production has not changed,
  5. your cost of extraction has not changed,
  6. your cost of raw materials has not changed, but
  7. you have raised your retail price because you have panicked your customers into believing that your costs have gone up because someone else in some other country has to pay more than you are paying for one or more of the above,
sort of qualifies - doesn't it?
Except most of those things have changed. My point was that it is difficult to clearly articulate the parameters and the circumstances in legislation. This is nothing more than "for show" legislation in my estimation.
 
Excessive profits from an essential product.
Under unrestrained, free market, capitalism there is no such thing as "excessive profit" because the supplier has the absolute right to charge whatever they can convince the market to pay.

Why are you attacking the very basis of the American economic system? I mean that cell phone that you paid $800 for probably cost at least $20 manufacture so, given a "reasonable" level of profit (let's say 50%) at each level (which includes advertising as a level) it should sell for around $150 and the remaining $650 being profit.

Should that "excessive" profit be prohibited as well?
 
When supply goes down and demand goes up, prices rise. Price caps generally create shortages. That's not really so much "an opinion" as it is "economics".
The American crude oil extraction industry is currently producing more crude oil than the American refining industry can process.

That means that (American) supply is NOT "going down".

The American petroleum fuel demand is currently NOT going up either.

So when supply does not go down and demand does not go up, why do prices rise?


Because the petroleum company managements are complying with their fiduciary duties to their shareholders to maximize profits, that's why.
 
Under unrestrained, free market, capitalism there is no such thing as "excessive profit" because the supplier has the absolute right to charge whatever they can convince the market to pay.

Why are you attacking the very basis of the American economic system? I mean that cell phone that you paid $800 for probably cost at least $20 manufacture so, given a "reasonable" level of profit (let's say 50%) at each level (which includes advertising as a level) it should sell for around $150 and the remaining $650 being profit.

Should that "excessive" profit be prohibited as well?
This is about gasoline. They don't need to convince anybody.
 
What is “excessive”?

If a gallon of gasoline costs less than a gallon of Coca Cola at the same store then which price is ”excessive”?


What you appear to be overlooking is that Coca~Cola® is an essential food product.

BTW, the cost of producing one 20oz bottle of Coca~Cola® is around $0.30 so that means that it costs around $1.92 a gallon to manufacture.

Add a 50% retail markup (to cover operating expenses) and that rises to around $2.88/gal.​
Toss in a 10% retail profit factor and you are up to about $3.17/gal.​

It cost around $0.62/gal to produce one gallon of crude oil (the refineries get about 40% of that out as gasoline so that raises the price to around $1.55/gal) and it costs about $0.55/gal to do the refining. That puts the prices of gas, at the refinery shipping point, at about $2.20 per gallon - if you don't factor in what the refineries get for the other distillation products. When you do factor in the other distillation products, that $2.20 comes down to something in the neighbourhood of $1.25.

Add a retail markup of 50% (to cover operating expenses) and that rises to around $1.90/gal.​
Toss in a 10% retail profit factor and you are up to about $2.00/gal.​
So, as you can see, it makes perfect sense for Coca~Cola® to cost more than gasoline.
 
Except most of those things have changed.
Name which of
  • your DOMESTIC AMERICAN cost of running your retail operation,
  • your DOMESTIC AMERICAN cost of running your delivery network,
  • your DOMESTIC AMERICAN cost of running your warehouse operation,
  • your DOMESTIC AMERICAN cost of production,
  • your DOMESTIC AMERICAN cost of extraction,
  • your DOMESTIC AMERICAN cost of raw materials,
has changed.
My point was that it is difficult to clearly articulate the parameters and the circumstances in legislation. This is nothing more than "for show" legislation in my estimation.
Of course it is "for show" legislation. There is an election on (of course, in the United States of America there is ALWAYS an election on.) and people REALLY want to get re-elected (REGARDLESS of what the post-election effects of their campaign promises are) and other people REALLY don't want to see them get re-elected (REGARDLESS of what the post-election effects of their campaign promises are), and no one actually expects the people who do end up getting elected/re-elected to do anything other than start working IMMEDIATELY on their re-election campaign or to vote for anything which isn't guaranteed to help ensure that they (and "THEIR Guys") win that upcoming election REGARDLESS of what the effects of what they do (or don't do) has on the country as a whole.
 



When this fails, next comes price controls and pretty soon you will be waiting in line for 4 hours to buy gas at a "fair" price.

Saudi Aramco just surpassed Apple as the most valuable company at $2.4 trillion. When is it enough that corporations attain such wealth at consumers' costs?
 
I certainly don't think that's the only problem.


"THE ABBOTT NUTRITION facility in Sturgis, Michigan, which produces much of the U.S. supply of baby formula, shut down in February, bringing production lines to a grinding halt. Following a voluntary recall and investigation by the Food and Drug Administration and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the stoppage stemmed from a bacterial outbreak whose effects would be felt months later.

Starting last September, five babies who had consumed the plant’s formula contracted bacterial infections.

Two of them died."


Around 98% of the "baby formula" that is consumed in the United States of America is produced in the United States of America.

That alone should tell you that it is all the fault of those foreigners that there is a shortage of "baby formula" in the United States of America.

True, there were import tariffs applied to the 2% of the "baby formula" that is consumed in the United States of America and that should tell you that it is all the fault of those tariffs that there is a shortage of "baby formula" in the United States of America (please ignore the fact that the tariffs were rescinded LONG before there was any shortage).
 
Saudi Aramco just surpassed Apple as the most valuable company at $2.4 trillion. When is it enough that corporations attain such wealth at consumers' costs?
Ummmm - Did you know that ALL companies attain their "value" at consumer's costs? Those consumer costs are the profits from which the companies pay their dividends.

BTW, did you know that the actual cash value of a company is generally a fraction of the current total share value ("market capitalization") for the company? For example, Apple's net worth at the end of the fiscal year 2020 was $65.34 billion but its "market capitalization" was $2.08 trillion as of March 15, 2021. In short, Apple (if it had to be liquidated) was actually worth around 3.14% of what the shareholders had paid for it.
 
All of this is due to poor decisions regarding the free market; allowing environmental "idealism" to guide/cloud economic policy.

That's led to the current Administration's push for policies preventing oil, coal, and other natural resource exploitation in the USA in the name of "saving the planet." Meanwhile letting "developing nations" like China, India, and many others have a "free pass" thanks to "SJW guilt."

We have some of the most complex environmental protection laws on the books as is, we don't need to be the world's savior on our own.

What we really need is to unlock our access to all the vast natural resources we have available to us, while at the very same time use our "brain power" to develop alternative sources of energy, food, and other goods production.

Idealism is all well and good, but it doesn't feed, clothe, house, or allow the movement of resources to supply needs and wants.
From memory the average US/Canadian/Australian produces 2 to 4 times as much greenhouse gas as the average Chinese, and closer to 10 times the average Indian. Yet all those other nations are the problem?
 
From memory the average US/Canadian/Australian produces 2 to 4 times as much greenhouse gas as the average Chinese, and closer to 10 times the average Indian. Yet all those other nations are the problem?

Yeah, because our consumption is 10x as high, and consumption is an accurate way to measure standard of living.
 



When this fails, next comes price controls and pretty soon you will be waiting in line for 4 hours to buy gas at a "fair" price.

So it's Biden's fault gas prices are high, but conservatives will still oppose reining them in.

Yup got it.
 
What is “excessive”?
View attachment 67390818

Tell me you never finished school without telling me...

Hmm…

 
Back
Top Bottom