Background Checks

[Chillfolks]

So in a state that doesn't require a UBC, if the buyer is from out of state it does ?

That has already been answered numerous times by different posters

 

[Rich2018]

Yes. The only "problem" is that Federal law does require the seller to check ID. So let's pass a law requiring private sellers to check ID, and be done with it. Then states can regulate however they like, within the confines of the 2nd.

In fact, we could get rid of ALL the other federal gun laws if we do this.

I must be missing something, what does showing ID prove ?

 

[TurtleDude]

So in a state that doesn't require a UBC, if the buyer is from out of state it does ?

most states don't require them-but all states have to follow federal law that applies to any retail sale from a licensed dealer/ a buyer from out of state CAN ONLY buy long arms and ONLY from a licensed dealer and yes, that requires a background check

 

[Aunt Antifa]

How many shootings do gun control advocates reckon will be prevented every year if we pass a federal law requiring background checks for all firearm sales, and based on what data?

How many shootings should we expect in a normal year, is what I’d like one of you folks to answer?

 

[TurtleDude]

How many shootings should we expect in a normal year, is what I’d like one of you folks to answer?

since most of those doing illegal shootings are on your side of the aisle, and not ours, perhaps you have better access to that information than he does

 

[Noodlegawd]

How many shootings should we expect in a normal year, is what I’d like one of you folks to answer?

Probably about the same number as last year, give or take 10% (but in the case of the past year, probably quite a bit more thanks to the anti-police riots).

I'll take your non-answer to my question as a "zero".

 

[Aunt Antifa]

Probably about the same number as last year, give or take 10% (but in the case of the past year, probably quite a bit more thanks to the anti-police riots).

I'll take your non-answer to my question as a "zero".

So you’re comfortable with those numbers, is that correct?

 

[Aunt Antifa]

since most of those doing illegal shootings are on your side of the aisle, and not ours, perhaps you have better access to that information than he does

Oh...okay?

 

[Rich2018]

most states don't require them-but all states have to follow federal law that applies to any retail sale from a licensed dealer/ a buyer from out of state CAN ONLY buy long arms and ONLY from a licensed dealer and yes, that requires a background check

So I was right, even states that don't require a background check, do so if a buyer is from out of state

So why the resistance to UBC ?

 

[Chillfolks]

So I was right, even states that don't require a background check, do so if a buyer is from out of state

So why the resistance to UBC ?

For me it is about what a UBC would consist of. I generally am ok with them, however once people start suggesting things like a mental health evaluation, registration, licensing, waiting period, and even police inspections as part of a UBC I oppose it.

 

[Rich2018]

For me it is about what a UBC would consist of. I generally am ok with them, however once people start suggesting things like a mental health evaluation, registration, licensing, waiting period, and even police inspections as part of a UBC I oppose it.

Police inspections is going a distinct step further

Mental health evaluations are worthless IMO, you wouldn't need to be mentally sound, just have a paper that says you are

Nothing wrong with registration

Licensing has great legal benefits as it makes it much easier to remove someone's guns should they prove to be a threat to society (before they commit a mass shooting I mean).

 

[TurtleDude]

So I was right, even states that don't require a background check, do so if a buyer is from out of state

So why the resistance to UBC ?

are you just ignoring facts

YOU CANNOT BUY A FIREARM ACROSS STATE LINES UNLESS IT IS A LONG ARM AND YOU BUY IT THROUGH A LICENSED DEALER WITH A BACKGROUND CHECK.

 

[TurtleDude]

I oppose UBC FOR SEVERAL REASONS

1) the federal government does not have the proper power. that alone is proper grounds to oppose such nonsense

2) it is almost guaranteed to have no impact on criminals

3) It is designed to turn currently legal gun owners into criminals

4) it is also designed to create a demand for universal registration

 

[Rich2018]

are you just ignoring facts

YOU CANNOT BUY A FIREARM ACROSS STATE LINES UNLESS IT IS A LONG ARM AND YOU BUY IT THROUGH A LICENSED DEALER WITH A BACKGROUND CHECK.

And seemingly you object to that ?

I oppose UBC FOR SEVERAL REASONS

1) the federal government does not have the proper power. that alone is proper grounds to oppose such nonsense

2) it is almost guaranteed to have no impact on criminals

3) It is designed to turn currently legal gun owners into criminals

4) it is also designed to create a demand for universal registration

1. We're talking about giving the federal government the "proper power"
2. Are you saying that currently, where there are no background checks, no prohibited person ever gets a gun through a dealer ?
3. How would it turn anyone into a criminal ?
4. hat is wrong with Universal Background Checks ?

 

[TurtleDude]

And do you object to that ?

yes, I think you ought to be able to buy a handgun across state lines from a dealer. I don't believe the federal government's power is proper under the commerce clause to do this. The purpose of the commerce clause was to prevent some of the several states from interfering with the free flow of goods and commerce in the USA, not for congress to do something like this. NOW do states have the proper power to demand a background check-Probably

 

[Rich2018]

I oppose UBC FOR SEVERAL REASONS

1) the federal government does not have the proper power. that alone is proper grounds to oppose such nonsense

2) it is almost guaranteed to have no impact on criminals

3) It is designed to turn currently legal gun owners into criminals

4) it is also designed to create a demand for universal registration

1. We're talking about giving the federal government the "proper power"
2. Are you saying that currently, where there are no background checks, no prohibited person ever gets a gun through a dealer ?
3. How would it turn anyone into a criminal ?
4. hat is wrong with Universal Background Checks ?

...I think you ought to be able to buy a handgun across state lines from a dealer. I don't believe the federal government's power is proper under the commerce clause to do this. The purpose of the commerce clause was to prevent some of the several states from interfering with the free flow of goods and commerce in the USA, not for congress to do something like this. NOW do states have the proper power to demand a background check-Probably

Surely there is a good case for a standardized background check, that checks databases in all states and that applies to everyone ?

 

[Chillfolks]

Police inspections is going a distinct step further

Mental health evaluations are worthless IMO, you wouldn't need to be mentally sound, just have a paper that says you are

Nothing wrong with registration

Licensing has great legal benefits as it makes it much easier to remove someone's guns should they prove to be a threat to society (before they commit a mass shooting I mean).

Licenses for public carry I can somewhat see but not for private property so they are a nine starter if its included in a UBC program.

Registration is a poison pill and would kill any support to whatever it was attached to.

As I gun owner in not opposed to a UBC program, but could be pushed that way depending on details

 

[Rich2018]

Licenses for public carry I can somewhat see but not for private property so they are a nine starter if its included in a UBC program.

Registration is a poison pill and would kill any support to whatever it was attached to.

As I gun owner in not opposed to a UBC program, but could be pushed that way depending on details

I think you mean "non-starter"

Licenses for guns makes perfect sense and is actually beneficial for gun owners

I don't get the hostility to registration either...on one hand you say a gun ban will never happen, but on the other you say that registration is a stepping stone to just that.

 

[Chillfolks]

I think you mean "non-starter"

Licenses for guns makes perfect sense and is actually beneficial for gun owners

I don't get the hostility to registration either...on one hand you say a gun ban will never happen, but on the other you say that registration is a stepping stone to just that.

How is it supposedly beneficial to gun owners?

Like I've said before it's possible to turn people like me how support a UBC program agianst it with adding requirements.

 

[Rich2018]

How is it supposedly beneficial to gun owners?

You wouldn't need a background check if you had one - saving time in a gun store

The license could also serve as a CCW

The license could also list what guns you can buy

Like I've said before it's possible to turn people like me how support a UBC program agianst it with adding requirements.

Why would you oppose licensing and registration ?
Can you see no benefits at all ?

 

[natman]

Federal laws

1) a non licensed individual may buy rifles, shotguns and handguns from other unlicensed individuals ONLY if both reside in the same state

2) a non licensed individual can buy long arms from a licensed individual whose place of business is in the same state as the buyer or an adjacent state

3) a non licensed individual cannot buy a handgun from a dealer who does not operate or hold a license in his state

Correction on #2. The adjacent state rule was once the case, but it was changed some years ago. Now you can buy a LONG gun via an FFL in any state, as long the transaction is legal in BOTH states. As stated, handguns must be bought in your home state.

 

[Chillfolks]

You wouldn't need a background check if you had one - saving time in a gun store

I don't beleive that in the slightest. I have not seen any political figure on any level of government purpose doing away with a BC system and replace it with a license system. If you have a link to some politician saying such a thing I am interested in reading it. All I seen so far is license in addition to or part of a BC system not in lieu of.

The license could also serve as a CCW

As more states recognize the constitutional right to carry the CCW permit will become obsolete.

The license could also list what guns you can buy

Anyone can purchace whatever guns are legal to own. No license needed.

Why would you oppose licensing and registration ?
Can you see no benefits at all ?

I can see the benefits for those looking to further restrict ones rights but not much of a benefit if you are concerned about preserving your rights. I don't trust those who look at restricting gun rights not to abuse such a program in the near future.

 

[Rich2018]

I don't beleive that in the slightest.

If you have a CCW in Georgia, the gun store doesn't bother with the background check

As more states recognize the constitutional right to carry the CCW permit will become obsolete.

And when might New York and New Jersey do that ?
A federally issued license lets a gun owner skirt past local rules on concealed carry

Anyone can purchace whatever guns are legal to own. No license needed.

Including a fully automatic machine gun ?

I can see the benefits for those looking to further restrict ones rights but not much of a benefit if you are concerned about preserving your rights. I don't trust those who look at restricting gun rights not to abuse such a program in the near future.

How does a license restrict anyone ?
Benefits listed above
How could a gun license be "abused" ?

 

[Chillfolks]

If you have a CCW in Georgia, the gun store doesn't bother with the background check

Do you have a link supporting that, it's my understanding all sales using a FFL are supposed to have a check done. I find that claim highly suspect.

And when might New York and New Jersey do that ?

When they stop voting for politicians looking to restrict their freedoms.

A federally issued license lets a gun owner skirt past local rules on concealed carry

The decriminalization and recreational use of marijuana in some states proves localities and federal government are not on the samw page concerning some laws.

Including a fully automatic machine gun ?

Sure as long as you can legally own one.

How does a license restrict anyone ?
Benefits listed above
How could a gun license be "abused" ?

It turns a right into a privilege until you understand that basic concept you'll never be abke to understand the error of your ways.

 

[craig]

If you have a CCW in Georgia, the gun store doesn't bother with the background check



And when might New York and New Jersey do that ?
A federally issued license lets a gun owner skirt past local rules on concealed carry



Including a fully automatic machine gun ?




How does a license restrict anyone ?
Benefits listed above
How could a gun license be "abused" ?

If we do not enforce the gun laws we have then why would we pass more. Nothing promotes lawlessness more than laws that are not enforced.