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background checks for ALL firearm sales will reduce the murder rate

black_squirrel

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In the USA, 12,000 people are murdered every year with firearms. A lot of these murders can be prevented.
Gun laws in the USA have loopholes. Background checks are not required for ALL firearm sales. For example they
often not apply to private sales. So criminals can easily obtain guns from a private seller. Moreover, gun laws
differ from state to state, which does not make sense. Strict laws for selling guns won't do much good if a
neighboring state has very lax gun laws.

To remedy this, it makes sense to
1. register ALL firearms
2. subject ALL sales to background checks
3. require ALL stolen guns to be reported

Most of the guns that are illegally possessed were once owned legally by someone. If law-abiding citizens
only sell guns to other people who can legally posses a gun, then criminals would have more difficulties
obtaining a gun. Any person who owns a gun legally, would think twice about selling a gun without a background check
would think twice because this gun could be tracked down to the him/her.
 

Bob N

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I don't see anything wrong with that. :thumbs:
 

LaMidRighter

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Oh where to start.
In the USA, 12,000 people are murdered every year with firearms.
Mostly criminal on criminal, very few actual victimizations, and many of those are people who knew the murderer.
A lot of these murders can be prevented.
You can't prevent a murder unless you personally are willing to meet that force with counter force, no law will ever convince a person intent on murder from abstaining from the act.
Gun laws in the USA have loopholes.
Gun laws in the U.S. not based upon due process are unconstitutional. Period.
Background checks are not required for ALL firearm sales
So what. If I want to sell private property it's a right, if I want to sell business property as a firearms dealer it can be regulated under business law. No issue here. No matter how many people repeat it.
For example they
often not apply to private sales. So criminals can easily obtain guns from a private seller.
They can get them from the same people they buy other black market items too, what's your point?
Moreover, gun laws
differ from state to state, which does not make sense. Strict laws for selling guns won't do much good if a
neighboring state has very lax gun laws.
State's have more rights than the federal, that's how it is supposed to work.

To remedy this, it makes sense to
1. register ALL firearms
Nope.
2. subject ALL sales to background checks
Nope
3. require ALL stolen guns to be reported
Nope

Most of the guns that are illegally possessed were once owned legally by someone.
Not true. Some may have been stolen, others may have come from ports and smuggled in past customs, like drugs, the porous borders also are an avenue.
If law-abiding citizens
only sell guns to other people who can legally posses a gun, then criminals would have more difficulties
obtaining a gun. Any person who owns a gun legally, would think twice about selling a gun without a background check
would think twice because this gun could be tracked down to the him/her.
Not even close to correct, criminals have tons of options. The whole point which should be obvious to anyone keeping an open mind is that criminals BY NATURE do not follow laws.

What else ya got?
 

LaMidRighter

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I don't see anything wrong with that. :thumbs:
Except it's all recycled nonsense from gun control groups and completely false. Other than that I'm sure it's fine. :roll:
 

CalGun

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More wet dream liberalitus. One thinking only the govt can save them.

12,000 people die due to gun violence in America - yes.
263,000,000 were killed by governments in the last 113 years alone.

DO THE MATH
 

LaMidRighter

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More wet dream liberalitus. One thinking only the govt can save them.

12,000 people die due to gun violence in America - yes.
263,000,000 were killed by governments in the last 113 years alone.

DO THE MATH
I forgot the actual numbers but just about every communist revolution last century cost the citizenry of those countries millions, China, Cambodia, the USSR, South American instability, Africa, even under established takeovers, the genocides of Africa, the Holocaust, etc. The sad thing is the lucky ones were shot, many more were starved intentionally, gassed, or otherwise murdered in slow and painful manners...........all by some form of organized government structure.
 

Lutherf

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In the USA, 12,000 people are murdered every year with firearms. A lot of these murders can be prevented.
Gun laws in the USA have loopholes. Background checks are not required for ALL firearm sales. For example they
often not apply to private sales. So criminals can easily obtain guns from a private seller. Moreover, gun laws
differ from state to state, which does not make sense. Strict laws for selling guns won't do much good if a
neighboring state has very lax gun laws.

To remedy this, it makes sense to
1. register ALL firearms
2. subject ALL sales to background checks
3. require ALL stolen guns to be reported

Most of the guns that are illegally possessed were once owned legally by someone. If law-abiding citizens
only sell guns to other people who can legally posses a gun, then criminals would have more difficulties
obtaining a gun. Any person who owns a gun legally, would think twice about selling a gun without a background check
would think twice because this gun could be tracked down to the him/her.
Question #1 - How do you plan on going about registering every firearm?
Question #2 - How do you plan on enforcing compliance with the BGC for every sale rule?
Question #3 - How do you plan on enforcing compliance with the stolen gun thing?
 

Bob N

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...So what. If I want to sell private property it's a right,...
What happens when you sell your private property (Gun) to a person that has a record and is not supposed to have a gun by law?
 

ttwtt78640

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In the USA, 12,000 people are murdered every year with firearms. A lot of these murders can be prevented.
Gun laws in the USA have loopholes. Background checks are not required for ALL firearm sales. For example they
often not apply to private sales. So criminals can easily obtain guns from a private seller. Moreover, gun laws
differ from state to state, which does not make sense. Strict laws for selling guns won't do much good if a
neighboring state has very lax gun laws.

To remedy this, it makes sense to
1. register ALL firearms
2. subject ALL sales to background checks
3. require ALL stolen guns to be reported

Most of the guns that are illegally possessed were once owned legally by someone. If law-abiding citizens
only sell guns to other people who can legally posses a gun, then criminals would have more difficulties
obtaining a gun. Any person who owns a gun legally, would think twice about selling a gun without a background check
would think twice because this gun could be tracked down to the him/her.
How does this square with the 2A? You seem to assert that a constitutional right must become a state issued privilege because some tiny minority have abused that right. The complete nationwide ban of many recreational drugs did not make them rare, but it did create a multi-billion dollar criminal network to meet the demand for them. You confuse the right to keep and bear arms with the right to commit a crime with a gun - the two are not realted.

If you can determine with accuracy who is so dangerous that they may not ever legally touch a gun then why are they left to wander freely among us? What if they instead get a hammer, knife or flamable liqiud - would that too require the same measures to be taken? Why trust these known violent, dangerous or insane folks (barred from ever touching a gun) to drive vehicles or to purchase gasoline in "to go" containers?
 

LaMidRighter

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What happens when you sell your private property (Gun) to a person that has a record and is not supposed to have a gun by law?
They get caught with it and they get a felony charge, I'm only liable if I KNOW they are prohibited or buying for a criminal action.
 

TurtleDude

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In the USA, 12,000 people are murdered every year with firearms. A lot of these murders can be prevented.
Gun laws in the USA have loopholes. Background checks are not required for ALL firearm sales. For example they
often not apply to private sales. So criminals can easily obtain guns from a private seller. Moreover, gun laws
differ from state to state, which does not make sense. Strict laws for selling guns won't do much good if a
neighboring state has very lax gun laws.

To remedy this, it makes sense to
1. register ALL firearms
2. subject ALL sales to background checks
3. require ALL stolen guns to be reported

Most of the guns that are illegally possessed were once owned legally by someone. If law-abiding citizens
only sell guns to other people who can legally posses a gun, then criminals would have more difficulties
obtaining a gun. Any person who owns a gun legally, would think twice about selling a gun without a background check
would think twice because this gun could be tracked down to the him/her.

1) criminals are exempt from having to register firearms

2) the fourth amendment prevents forcing the rest of us to do so

3) you obviously are ignorant about the war on drugs

4) registration has only one use-to facilitate confiscation
 

TurtleDude

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TurtleDude

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What happens when you sell your private property (Gun) to a person that has a record and is not supposed to have a gun by law?
He gets prosecuted for possession while under a prohibition
 

ttwtt78640

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I don't see anything wrong with that. :thumbs:
Now you do:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
 

TurtleDude

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Oh no! Take me out of your database. ;) :2razz:
If you think that registration is OK that means you support gun confiscation because the only reason for registration is confiscation.

to say other wise is akin to saying you support people registering for the draft but you don't support people being conscripted to serve in the military
 

Bob N

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Now you do:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
Take note of the word regulated that's in that sentence. ;)
 

TurtleDude

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Take note of the word regulated that's in that sentence. ;)
take note of the word regulated referencing the militia, not the rights of the people

take note that as used in the second amendment well regulated had nothing to do with federal control or the delegation of power to the federal government

take note of the fact that we have seen silly anti gun arguments for years and its doubtful you gun banners can come up with some novel argument we haven't flushed down the toilet before
 

haymarket

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If you think that registration is OK that means you support gun confiscation because the only reason for registration is confiscation.
Funniest post of the day.

Yeah - and spanking your kids a few times on the butt is the same thing as child abuse because the only reason for laying your hands on a kid is to physically and mentally scar them. :doh

This is really rich. How do you come up with such nonsense without breaking into laughter? :roll:;)
 

Bob N

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He gets prosecuted for possession while under a prohibition
So that wouldn't bother you if you sold a gun to a person that had committed a felony and harmed or kill someone with that gun?
 

Bob N

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take note of the word regulated referencing the militia, not the rights of the people

take note that as used in the second amendment well regulated had nothing to do with federal control or the delegation of power to the federal government

take note of the fact that we have seen silly anti gun arguments for years and its doubtful you gun banners can come up with some novel argument we haven't flushed down the toilet before
TD: Our forefathers seen the people as the militia. As a matter of fact I believe that Thomas Jefferson actually frowned on a militia that would be formed by the Federal government.
 

ttwtt78640

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Take note of the word regulated that's in that sentence. ;)
Take note that well regulated applied to militia, not to the people. The 2A did not use militia in one place and the people in another in that sentence by accident, as they are not interchangable.


This seems to be your prefered interpretation:

A well regulated people, being necessary to the security of a totalitarian state, the right of the militia to keep and bear arms, shall not be questioned.
 
Last edited:

Bob N

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Take note that well regulated applied to the militia, not the to the people. The 2A did not use militia in one place and people in another in that sentence by accident, as they are not interchangable.
Our forefathers meant that the people were the militia.
 

LaMidRighter

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Take note of the word regulated that's in that sentence. ;)
1) That is in the subordinate clause, the only reading of that came from the anti constitution asshole Woodrow Wilson and has been adopted by the progressives and gun control groups ever since.
2) The subordinate clause was only to be a singular reason among many to set up the reasoning behind prohibition of infringement in the independent(2nd) clause, which is the only complete sentence, thus it is the only truly relevant thought in the second.
3) Well regulated does not open the door for gun control. The word then meant "in working order" which meant that when militia were to be called to muster they were to have minimum privately owned weaponry and stocks, according to a "regulated" list, and they were to drill in order to be "regulated" or "in working order".
4) The founders writings, or better known as the people who wrote the law, disagree with every last bit of the Wilsonian interpretation.
 

TurtleDude

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Funniest post of the day.

Yeah - and spanking your kids a few times on the butt is the same thing as child abuse because the only reason for laying your hands on a kid is to physically and mentally scar them. :doh

This is really rich. How do you come up with such nonsense without breaking into laughter? :roll:;)
You have been edified on what registration leads to. Since your party supports registration and in many cases confiscation, it is fun watching you pretend that registration has some value to a free society

We recall your blather that some cops have told you that registration can help solve crimes but when pressed, you couldn't find any support whatsoever for such a BS claim. Some cops are dishonest assholes and think only cops should have guns and will say anything to justify that but none of them can come up with any evidence that registration has led to crime decreases
 
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