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Back When The Real Middle Class Originated

Campbell

Banned
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Jan 8, 2013
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Location
East Tennessee
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Male
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Liberal
Norris Dam was completed the year I was born, 1934. Because of the origination of TVA and purchases of hundreds of east TN farms a navigable channel was created and in 1941 many other farms were purchased by the government and Oak Ridge was created as a major part of the Manhattan project. Because of the rural area for the "Secret City" and the massive power generation capability east Tennessee was a logical choice. The first job my dad ever had which produced a regular paycheck was as a timekeeper on Roosevelt's WPA. If we had a Democratic majority in both houses of congress we would already have America back to work:

norris-fdr.gif
 
You're a decade late, there, Camp. ;)
 
Norris Dam was completed the year I was born, 1934. Because of the origination of TVA and purchases of hundreds of east TN farms a navigable channel was created and in 1941 many other farms were purchased by the government and Oak Ridge was created as a major part of the Manhattan project. Because of the rural area for the "Secret City" and the massive power generation capability east Tennessee was a logical choice. The first job my dad ever had which produced a regular paycheck was as a timekeeper on Roosevelt's WPA. If we had a Democratic majority in both houses of congress we would already have America back to work:

norris-fdr.gif

How so? We had that very situation in order to pass the mess now known as PPACA (or ObamaCare). If that same group of morons had created some massive gov't funded (by borrowing) make-work program(s) then they likely would never have been re-elected, thus they wisely chose not to do so. Stimulus was supposed to do (sold as?) just that, yet each job created (or saved) cost we the sheeple about $200K/year but, of course, those few jobs created paid far less than that.
 
How so? We had that very situation in order to pass the mess now known as PPACA (or ObamaCare). If that same group of morons had created some massive gov't funded (by borrowing) make-work program(s) then they likely would never have been re-elected, thus they wisely chose not to do so. Stimulus was supposed to do (sold as?) just that, yet each job created (or saved) cost we the sheeple about $200K/year but, of course, those few jobs created paid far less than that.

A Republican that doesn't like ObamaCare is as common as a house fly. What else is new?

Keep on keeping on and see how many national elections you win. Romney carried two demographics....white men and voters over 65. Since we're really close to whites being a minority in America and since folks over 65 are dying 100 times faster than those under thirty there's a possibility you should rethink your strategy:

Obama.......332

Romney.......206
 
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A Republican that doesn't like ObamaCare is as common as a house fly. What else is new?

Keep on keeping on and see how many national elections you win. Romney carried two demographics....white men and voters over 65. Since we're really close to whites being a minority in America and since folks over 65 are dying 100 times faster than those under thirty there's a possibility you should rethink your strategy:

Obama.......332

Romney.......206

Again you completely miss the point, it was not republicants that stopped your demorats (having a solid majority in congress and the POTUS) from "fixing the economy" it was the actions of demorats choosing to create PPACA instead and running up the national defict/debt (without creating enough jobs in the process) that caused some of them to be replaced by republicants (cheered on by the Tea Party). Obviously if the party in power was pleasing to the electorate then they would have remained in power.

To assert that only the popularity of POTUS matters, while ignoring the changed party makeup of our congress critters, is precisely why less is getting done by either party now. Since both parties now seem to want to grow the federal gov't ever more, then the only recourse, that the voters have, is to give neither party a solid majority. Gridlock appears to beat allowing ever more massive new federal spending and that now seems to be the new normal.

Split ticket voting is a good thing. ;)
 
A Republican that doesn't like ObamaCare is as common as a house fly. What else is new?

Keep on keeping on and see how many national elections you win. Romney carried two demographics....white men and voters over 65. Since we're really close to whites being a minority in America and since folks over 65 are dying 100 times faster than those under thirty there's a possibility you should rethink your strategy:

Obama.......332

Romney.......206

Is that seriously your best argument? Really?

What if I were to rewind 8 years and were to say "Bush beat Kerry so therefore we should ban abortion, its what the people want" You would buy that?
 
Again you completely miss the point, it was not republicants that stopped your demorats (having a solid majority in congress and the POTUS) from "fixing the economy" it was the actions of demorats choosing to create PPACA instead and running up the national defict/debt (without creating enough jobs in the process) that caused some of them to be replaced by republicants (cheered on by the Tea Party). Obviously if the party in power was pleasing to the electorate then they would have remained in power.

To assert that only the popularity of POTUS matters, while ignoring the changed party makeup of our congress critters, is precisely why less is getting done by either party now. Since both parties now seem to want to grow the federal gov't ever more, then the only recourse, that the voters have, is to give neither party a solid majority. Gridlock appears to beat allowing ever more massive new federal spending and that now seems to be the new normal.

Split ticket voting is a good thing. ;)

I knew you would have an out. Like I said.....he was re-elected by a huge majority. Just keep it up. The burr up the Republican's ass is that a Black was elected president of the United States.

In 1980 the national debt was less than $1 trillion. Reagan cut tax rates for millionaires, continued to spend at an increased amount....every year except one the Democratic congress gave him less than he proposed but he and Bush41 quadrupled the national debt to over $4 trillion. Bill Clinton raised taxes in 1993/94 while he still had a Democrat majority, balanced the budget and left a plan in place to completely pay off the national debt by 2012. Then George W. Bush cut taxes for the wealthy twice using reconciliation to block Democrat opposition and doubled the national debt again from $5.7 to nearly $12 trillion. It's the low taxes for the wealthy and the borrowed money to cover the shortfall which has created the problem. The rich have made out like bandits while the middle class has disappeared. Right now only the obsessed and the blind fail to see where the Republicans have American society headed. If this isn't curtailed we will be a Lord/Serf society within 20 years. Hell Fire.....it's close to that now.

If there was any interest in putting Americans back to work the Republican house would have approved some of the proposals for public works projects made by the president. Our bridges are in ill repair. Our dams are leaking. Our levees are breaking. Our Interstates are falling apart, our electrical grid is vulnerable....more so than ever before. The only kind of project the Republicans are interested in is those who turn big profits for corporations and the wealthy. Keep it up......your party will soon be history.
 
N If we had a Democratic majority in both houses of congress we would already have America back to work:

norris-fdr.gif

Well we did for 2 years and they passed a huge stimulus bill.

There has been a drop in the unemployment RATE but that's almost entirely because people dropped out of the work force.

Now I suppose if I was a Democrat, I's play the " Gee- it just wan't big enough ' ( that's waht she said) card, but reasonable people, grounded in common sense would logically conclude that we should not do more of something that did't work in the first place.
Besides, 'full employment' should not be the goal. Economic growth in the private sector should ( employment will follow). I just don't see how massive Gvov't spending
produces that result. IF it did , every nation would immediately triple their spending, right?
 
I knew you would have an out. Like I said.....he was re-elected by a huge majority. Just keep it up. The burr up the Republican's ass is that a Black was elected president of the United States.
y.

[Groan] Pathetic.
 
I knew you would have an out. Like I said.....he was re-elected by a huge majority. Just keep it up. The burr up the Republican's ass is that a Black was elected president of the United States.

In 1980 the national debt was less than $1 trillion. Reagan cut tax rates for millionaires, continued to spend at an increased amount....every year except one the Democratic congress gave him less than he proposed but he and Bush41 quadrupled the national debt to over $4 trillion. Bill Clinton raised taxes in 1993/94 while he still had a Democrat majority, balanced the budget and left a plan in place to completely pay off the national debt by 2012. Then George W. Bush cut taxes for the wealthy twice using reconciliation to block Democrat opposition and doubled the national debt again from $5.7 to nearly $12 trillion. It's the low taxes for the wealthy and the borrowed money to cover the shortfall which has created the problem. The rich have made out like bandits while the middle class has disappeared. Right now only the obsessed and the blind fail to see where the Republicans have American society headed. If this isn't curtailed we will be a Lord/Serf society within 20 years. Hell Fire.....it's close to that now.

If there was any interest in putting Americans back to work the Republican house would have approved some of the proposals for public works projects made by the president. Our bridges are in ill repair. Our dams are leaking. Our levees are breaking. Our Interstates are falling apart, our electrical grid is vulnerable....more so than ever before. The only kind of project the Republicans are interested in is those who turn big profits for corporations and the wealthy. Keep it up......your party will soon be history.

Again you state your version of "the problem" yet refuse to address why inventing PPACA was deemed to be more important than solving "the problem" when demorats were in complete control of congress under Obama. Your blame the other guy, for your own party's lack of action, when you have complete federal control is silly.

The demorats made the choice to focus on cobbling together PPACA, keep on defict spending and thus lost control of the House in process. That is not the fault of the republicants. Blaming the minority for the inaction of the majority, is foolish. Note that the "Clinton miracle", which you cited, was accomplished with a republicant majority in congress; Clinton was truely a leader but Obama is merley an organizer - try to get over it.
 
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Again you state your version of "the problem" yet refuse to address why inventing PPACA was deemed to be more important than solving "the problem" when demorats were in complete control of congress under Obama. Your blame the other guy, for your own party's lack of action, when you have complete federal control is silly.

The demorats made the choice to focus on cobbling together PPACA, keep on defict spending and thus lost control of the House in process. That is not the fault of the republicants. Blaming the minority for the inaction of the majority, is foolish. Note that the "Clinton miracle", which you cited, was accomplished with a republicant majority in congress; Clinton was truely a leader but Obama is merley an organizer - try to get over it.

A Republican Fox News Lie:

MW-AR658_spendi_20120521163312_ME.jpg
 
Norris Dam was completed the year I was born, 1934. Because of the origination of TVA and purchases of hundreds of east TN farms a navigable channel was created and in 1941 many other farms were purchased by the government and Oak Ridge was created as a major part of the Manhattan project. Because of the rural area for the "Secret City" and the massive power generation capability east Tennessee was a logical choice. The first job my dad ever had which produced a regular paycheck was as a timekeeper on Roosevelt's WPA. If we had a Democratic majority in both houses of congress we would already have America back to work:

norris-fdr.gif
didn't we have that when Obama was first elected?
 
A Republican Fox News Lie:

MW-AR658_spendi_20120521163312_ME.jpg

Rate of federal spending growth? Are you kidding me? WOW Obama debt was only about $1+ trillion per year but spending only went up a little teeny bit! Debt/gain is computed as revenue minus expenses; looking only at revenue or only at expenses tells you nothing about debt.

How about using actual numbers (dollar amounts) or national debt increase as a percentage of GDP?

http://www.skymachines.com/US-National-Debt-Per-Capita-Percent-of-GDP-and-by-Presidental-Term.htm
 
Rate of federal spending growth? Are you kidding me? WOW Obama debt was only about $1+ trillion per year but spending only went up a little teeny bit! Debt/gain is computed as revenue minus expenses; looking only at revenue or only at expenses tells you nothing about debt.

How about using actual numbers (dollar amounts) or national debt increase as a percentage of GDP?

http://www.skymachines.com/US-National-Debt-Per-Capita-Percent-of-GDP-and-by-Presidental-Term.htm
that graph is quite telling
it shows us which administrations were most responsible for the growth of government during their terms
tellingly, the administrations most embraced by pseudo-conservatives were those who grew the government the fastest
 
Norris Dam was completed the year I was born, 1934. Because of the origination of TVA and purchases of hundreds of east TN farms a navigable channel was created and in 1941 many other farms were purchased by the government and Oak Ridge was created as a major part of the Manhattan project. Because of the rural area for the "Secret City" and the massive power generation capability east Tennessee was a logical choice. The first job my dad ever had which produced a regular paycheck was as a timekeeper on Roosevelt's WPA. If we had a Democratic majority in both houses of congress we would already have America back to work:

norris-fdr.gif

No. They would take years and years doing environmental impact studies and would probably never build it. Might be some type of fish that would be hurt. Your party is now controlled by radical environmentalists. BTW,Obama has mentioned he supports privatizing the TVA,one of the few times I agree with him.
 
Rate of federal spending growth? Are you kidding me? WOW Obama debt was only about $1+ trillion per year but spending only went up a little teeny bit! Debt/gain is computed as revenue minus expenses; looking only at revenue or only at expenses tells you nothing about debt.

How about using actual numbers (dollar amounts) or national debt increase as a percentage of GDP?

http://www.skymachines.com/US-National-Debt-Per-Capita-Percent-of-GDP-and-by-Presidental-Term.htm


You can look at it anyway you want Republicans are the main cause of the debt. Obama got stuck with the tab and Republicans seem to think he started the problem. Not once do I recall any righties complain about out of control spending as long as one of their gods were behind it. So are you still going to deny that Republicans are to blame for the mess we are in or are you going to blame a man that got handed a 12 trillion dollar bill on first day of work.
 
that graph is quite telling
it shows us which administrations were most responsible for the growth of government during their terms
tellingly, the administrations most embraced by pseudo-conservatives were those who grew the government the fastest

Of course, we haven't really even played PPACA yet and Obama is off to tremendous start. ;)
 
You can look at it anyway you want Republicans are the main cause of the debt. Obama got stuck with the tab and Republicans seem to think he started the problem. Not once do I recall any righties complain about out of control spending as long as one of their gods were behind it. So are you still going to deny that Republicans are to blame for the mess we are in or are you going to blame a man that got handed a 12 trillion dollar bill on first day of work.

Not to worry there, Skippy, I blame the congress critters as they hold the purse strings. Obama has allowed that debt to grow by $5 trillion so far and has three long years to go to easliy beat Bush's past national debt increase amount record. ;)

If Obama wanted to change that all he needed to do was veto the spending bil(s) and make the congress critters do the hard work on getting the "budget" into better shape. Perhaps his teleprompter never told him that. ;)
 
Rate of federal spending growth? Are you kidding me? WOW Obama debt was only about $1+ trillion per year but spending only went up a little teeny bit! Debt/gain is computed as revenue minus expenses; looking only at revenue or only at expenses tells you nothing about debt.

How about using actual numbers (dollar amounts) or national debt increase as a percentage of GDP?

http://www.skymachines.com/US-National-Debt-Per-Capita-Percent-of-GDP-and-by-Presidental-Term.htm

The interest due and payable at the end of Bush's last fiscal year was $455 billion. Anybody who even mentions the national debt and doesn't mention that Reagan and the Bushes were responsible for it needs a major dose of reality:

Total U S Debt


09/30/2009 $11,909,829,003,511.75(80% Of All Debt Across 232 Years Borrowed By Reagan And Bushes)

09/30/2008 $10,024,724,896,912.49(Times Square Debt Clock Modified To Accomodate Tens of Trillions)

09/30/2007 $9,007,653,372,262.48
09/30/2006 $8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/2005 $7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004 $7,379,052,696,330.32

09/30/2003 $6,783,231,062,743.62(Second Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)


09/30/2002 $6,228,235,965,597.16

09/30/2001 $5,807,463,412,200.06(First Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)


09/30/2000 $5,674,178,209,886.86(Administration And Congress Arguing About How To Use Surplus)

09/30/1999 $5,656,270,901,615.43(First Surplus Generated...On Track To Pay Off Debt By 2012)

09/30/1998 $5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 $5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 $5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 $4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 $4,692,749,910,013.32

09/30/1993 $4,411,488,883,139.38(Debt Quadrupled By Reagan/Bush41)

09/30/1992 $4,064,620,655,521.66
09/30/1991 $3,665,303,351,697.03
09/28/1990 $3,233,313,451,777.25
09/29/1989 $2,857,430,960,187.32
09/30/1988 $2,602,337,712,041.16
09/30/1987 $2,350,276,890,953.00
09/30/1986 $2,125,302,616,658.42
09/30/1985 $1,823,103,000,000.00
09/30/1984 $1,572,266,000,000.00
09/30/1983 $1,377,210,000,000.00

09/30/1982 $1,142,034,000,000.00(Total Debt Passes $1 Trillion)

09/30/1981 $997,855,000,000.00
 
There are lies, damn lies and statistics. The fact is due to the recession Keynesian stimulus was applied in the last year attributed to GW. This meant an exorbitant debt in 2009. Obama continued to run exorbitant debts. A better statistic is annual debt/gdp ratio.

Reagan's spending growth was mostly due to increased military spending. Some attribute this to aiding in ending the Cold War. The dissipation of the USSR led us to lower defense spending in the years between the Cold War and the War on Terror. Clinton benefitted from the peace dividend. The real lesson we should learn from recent history, if we took off our partisan blinders, is our meddling throughout the world, supported by both major parties, ain't doing us no good.

Of course, we all know that spending bills must originate in the House. Now, any stats on who controlled the House during times of low and high spending?
 
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The interest due and payable at the end of Bush's last fiscal year was $455 billion. Anybody who even mentions the national debt and doesn't mention that Reagan and the Bushes were responsible for it needs a major dose of reality:

Total U S Debt


09/30/2009 $11,909,829,003,511.75(80% Of All Debt Across 232 Years Borrowed By Reagan And Bushes)

09/30/2008 $10,024,724,896,912.49(Times Square Debt Clock Modified To Accomodate Tens of Trillions)

09/30/2007 $9,007,653,372,262.48
09/30/2006 $8,506,973,899,215.23
09/30/2005 $7,932,709,661,723.50
09/30/2004 $7,379,052,696,330.32

09/30/2003 $6,783,231,062,743.62(Second Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)


09/30/2002 $6,228,235,965,597.16

09/30/2001 $5,807,463,412,200.06(First Bush Tax Cuts Enacted Using Reconciliation)


09/30/2000 $5,674,178,209,886.86(Administration And Congress Arguing About How To Use Surplus)

09/30/1999 $5,656,270,901,615.43(First Surplus Generated...On Track To Pay Off Debt By 2012)

09/30/1998 $5,526,193,008,897.62
09/30/1997 $5,413,146,011,397.34
09/30/1996 $5,224,810,939,135.73
09/29/1995 $4,973,982,900,709.39
09/30/1994 $4,692,749,910,013.32

09/30/1993 $4,411,488,883,139.38(Debt Quadrupled By Reagan/Bush41)

09/30/1992 $4,064,620,655,521.66
09/30/1991 $3,665,303,351,697.03
09/28/1990 $3,233,313,451,777.25
09/29/1989 $2,857,430,960,187.32
09/30/1988 $2,602,337,712,041.16
09/30/1987 $2,350,276,890,953.00
09/30/1986 $2,125,302,616,658.42
09/30/1985 $1,823,103,000,000.00
09/30/1984 $1,572,266,000,000.00
09/30/1983 $1,377,210,000,000.00

09/30/1982 $1,142,034,000,000.00(Total Debt Passes $1 Trillion)

09/30/1981 $997,855,000,000.00

:lol: :doh Anybody that pretends that Obama will not add more to the national debt than Bush 43 (the current record holder) did is simply kidding themselves. :roll:

Naturally, your unbiased source just happened to exclude Obama's contribution to the total national debt. ;)

Not to mention Bush 43 having an "unprecedented" 9 year term. Hmm....
 
:lol: :doh Anybody that pretends that Obama will not add more to the national debt than Bush 43 (the current record holder) did is simply kidding themselves. :roll:

Naturally, your unbiased source just happened to exclude Obama's contribution to the total national debt. ;)

Not to mention Bush 43 having an "unprecedented" 9 year term. Hmm....

A non-partisan chart would label Newt's taking the Speaker of the House job, the House controls spending, , 9-11, and the date the Berlin wall came down.
 
Not to worry there, Skippy, I blame the congress critters as they hold the purse strings. Obama has allowed that debt to grow by $5 trillion so far and has three long years to go to easliy beat Bush's past national debt increase amount record. ;)

If Obama wanted to change that all he needed to do was veto the spending bil(s) and make the congress critters do the hard work on getting the "budget" into better shape. Perhaps his teleprompter never told him that. ;)

That makes no sence when he came into office the economy was in a tail spin. Even conservative economist said he had to spend Congress knew that as well. Yes it is Congress that is behind the spending. Obama did what he had to do. McCain would have done it as well. I do not care who became President at that time they would have don exactly that. Not spending would have caused a depression.

Oh the teleprompter stuff lol funny tell me how did Reagan do with his. The last half of his Presidency he was already losing his mind! Bush 2 was so dumb he couldn't read it. Oh and Reagan thought Bush 2 was a moocher on top of that.
 
The first job my dad ever had which produced a regular paycheck was as a timekeeper on Roosevelt's WPA.

Was he happy to have had a job, or did he bіtch because he wasn't making $15.00 an hour?
 
Norris Dam was completed the year I was born, 1934. Because of the origination of TVA and purchases of hundreds of east TN farms a navigable channel was created and in 1941 many other farms were purchased by the government and Oak Ridge was created as a major part of the Manhattan project. Because of the rural area for the "Secret City" and the massive power generation capability east Tennessee was a logical choice. The first job my dad ever had which produced a regular paycheck was as a timekeeper on Roosevelt's WPA.

my grandfather was an electrical engineer in Alaska under the REA.

it's my opinion that a WPA-type program should kick in automatically during every economic crash, and should automatically phase out when there is a real recovery. that would have been much more effective than a limited stimulus and bailout. we definitely need the infrastructure, and nation building in the US is something that i support.
 
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