Back From the Dead?

[_Sal]

Lately I have come upon more stories of people who claim to have died and been sent back or claim to have visited heaven. Over the years there have been many of these claims.

All of their stories vary some a bit, and some a lot. But one thing that does not change amongst any one them is the lack of judgement and condemnation.

Religions are big on judgement and condemnation. If you don't believe in a specific way, if you don't act in a certain manner, you will burn in hell for all of eternity.

Why do all of these returning souls, many who come back healed from various ailments, not come back with messages of repent or be damned? Rather they all come back with, god is love, god is light, god heals.

Opinions?

 

[countryboy]

Lately I have come upon more stories of people who claim to have died and been sent back or claim to have visited heaven. Over the years there have been many of these claims.

All of their stories vary some a bit, and some a lot. But one thing that does not change amongst any one them is the lack of judgement and condemnation.

Religions are big on judgement and condemnation. If you don't believe in a specific way, if you don't act in a certain manner, you will burn in hell for all of eternity.

Why do all of these returning souls, many who come back healed from various ailments, not come back with messages of repent or be damned? Rather they all come back with, god is love, god is light, god heals.

Opinions?

While some of these people probably genuinely believe they have visited "heaven" or seen "god", they are likely mistaken. From a Christian worldview, if it cannot be tested in light of Scripture, it couldn't have happened.

 

[_Sal]

While some of these people probably genuinely believe they have visited "heaven" or seen "god", they are likely mistaken. From a Christian worldview, if it cannot be tested in light of Scripture, it couldn't have happened.

From what I have read, seen and heard I would say all of them genuinely believe it.

So from your perspective then it is not possible or from a Christian perspective...sorry countryboy I haven't been here long enough to know everyone's belief

 

[Logicman]

Lately I have come upon more stories of people who claim to have died and been sent back or claim to have visited heaven. Over the years there have been many of these claims.

All of their stories vary some a bit, and some a lot. But one thing that does not change amongst any one them is the lack of judgement and condemnation.

Religions are big on judgement and condemnation. If you don't believe in a specific way, if you don't act in a certain manner, you will burn in hell for all of eternity.

Godless liberals and heathens are often big on condemnation and judgment, etc., too. If they could send some of the people they don't like to a Hell, I'm quite sure they would do it.

Any time there's a moral framework, there will be those who hate it and hate whoever brings it.

Why do all of these returning souls, many who come back healed from various ailments, not come back with messages of repent or be damned? Rather they all come back with, god is love, god is light, god heals.

Opinions?

They do, sometimes. One Christian pastor in Africa 'died' and got a vision of Hell. And angel with him told him if he had really died this day that Hell is where he would spend eternity, because the pastor would not forgive his wife.

"The most surprising thing is what happened next. The escorting angel told pastor Daniel, “If your record is to be called here, you will in no doubt be thrown into hell.” Pastor Daniel immediately defended himself saying, “I am a man of God! I serve Him with all my heart!” But a Bible appeared in the angel’s hand, and it was opened to Matthew 5 where Jesus warned that if one calls his brother a fool he is guilty enough to go into the hell of fire (see Matt. 5:21-22). Pastor Daniel knew he was guilty for the angry words he had spoken to his wife. The angel also reminded him that Jesus promised that God will not forgive our sins if we do not forgive others (see Matt. 6:14-15), because we will reap what we have sown. Only those who are merciful will obtain mercy (Matt 5:7). The angel told Daniel that the prayers he prayed as he was dying in the hospital were of no effect, because he refused to forgive his wife even when she attempted to reconcile on the morning of his fatal accident."

Quote above from this link / story: Resurrection from the dead of pastor Daniel Ekechukwu - Shepherd Serve

Hope hope this clears up your misconception on that issue.

 

[countryboy]

From what I have read, seen and heard I would say all of them genuinely believe it.

So from your perspective then it is not possible or from a Christian perspective...sorry countryboy I haven't been here long enough to know everyone's belief

No need to apologize. Yes, that is my position. There seems to be no Biblical basis for it.

Maybe they all do genuinely believe their experiences are real. But the cynic in me is skeptical.

 

[_Sal]

Godless liberals and heathens are often big on condemnation and judgment, etc., too. If they could send some of the people they don't like to a Hell, I'm quite sure they would do it.

Any time there's a moral framework, there will be those who hate it and hate whoever brings it.



They do, sometimes. One Christian pastor in Africa 'died' and got a vision of Hell. And angel with him told him if he had really died this day that Hell is where he would spend eternity, because the pastor would not forgive his wife.

"The most surprising thing is what happened next. The escorting angel told pastor Daniel, “If your record is to be called here, you will in no doubt be thrown into hell.” Pastor Daniel immediately defended himself saying, “I am a man of God! I serve Him with all my heart!” But a Bible appeared in the angel’s hand, and it was opened to Matthew 5 where Jesus warned that if one calls his brother a fool he is guilty enough to go into the hell of fire (see Matt. 5:21-22). Pastor Daniel knew he was guilty for the angry words he had spoken to his wife. The angel also reminded him that Jesus promised that God will not forgive our sins if we do not forgive others (see Matt. 6:14-15), because we will reap what we have sown. Only those who are merciful will obtain mercy (Matt 5:7). The angel told Daniel that the prayers he prayed as he was dying in the hospital were of no effect, because he refused to forgive his wife even when she attempted to reconcile on the morning of his fatal accident."

Quote above from this link / story: Resurrection from the dead of pastor Daniel Ekechukwu - Shepherd Serve

Hope hope this clears up your misconception on that issue.

a lot of self righteous people going to hell then, interesting...thanks for the input

 

[_Sal]

No need to apologize. Yes, that is my position. There seems to be no Biblical basis for it.

Maybe they all do genuinely believe their experiences are real. But the cynic in me is skeptical.

thanks and understood about the skepticism

 

[countryboy]

a lot of self righteous people going to hell then, interesting...thanks for the input

The Bible is explicitly clear, everyone dies once, and is judged. Sounds like this guy had a vivid dream, at best. Imho.

 

[_Sal]

The Bible is explicitly clear, everyone dies once, and is judged. Sounds like this guy had a vivid dream, at best. Imho.

well Jesus raised three from the dead in the Bible so what if he has continued with that?

 

[Skeptic Bob]

The brain does weird things when deprived of oxygen. The problem with these "near death experiences" is the stories resemble the stories of some pilots who pass out during high G training. Also by people on psychedelics, though that one isn't caused by oxygen deprivation to the brain.

If things like these can cause those experiences then certainly even more traumatic events that lead to even longer oxygen deprivation to the brain can cause such experiences.

 

[jet57]

Lately I have come upon more stories of people who claim to have died and been sent back or claim to have visited heaven. Over the years there have been many of these claims.

All of their stories vary some a bit, and some a lot. But one thing that does not change amongst any one them is the lack of judgement and condemnation.

Religions are big on judgement and condemnation. If you don't believe in a specific way, if you don't act in a certain manner, you will burn in hell for all of eternity.

Why do all of these returning souls, many who come back healed from various ailments, not come back with messages of repent or be damned? Rather they all come back with, god is love, god is light, god heals.

Opinions?

One thing that I believe to be consistent with these stories is that they all listen to each other. I do however believe that judgement is a human construct based on social acceptability.

 

[jet57]

The Bible is explicitly clear, everyone dies once, and is judged. Sounds like this guy had a vivid dream, at best. Imho.

That is of course only believed by those who believe the Bible. Fear of judgement, as I said, is a human construct.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

Lately I have come upon more stories of people who claim to have died and been sent back or claim to have visited heaven. Over the years there have been many of these claims.

All of their stories vary some a bit, and some a lot. But one thing that does not change amongst any one them is the lack of judgement and condemnation.

Religions are big on judgement and condemnation. If you don't believe in a specific way, if you don't act in a certain manner, you will burn in hell for all of eternity.

Why do all of these returning souls, many who come back healed from various ailments, not come back with messages of repent or be damned? Rather they all come back with, god is love, god is light, god heals.

Opinions?

Because when one's brain is dying, it only makes sense for it to let you get comfy rather than freaking out.

These people experienced hallucinations from oxygen deprivation, which you can simulate for yourself through any number of different (and often non-lethal) means. People with near death experiences are not seeing god. They're simply hallucinating.

As to why religion is big on judgement, well, it's a very effective way to control people, especially if you start on them from a very young age. Pontiffs like power just as much as presidents.

 

[Logicman]

a lot of self righteous people going to hell then, interesting...thanks for the input

You're correct. That's why people need the righteousness of Christ (Romans chapters 3 & 4), because we have none of our own.

They also need to repent of their sins or they're lost (Luke 13:3).

 

[nota bene]

People with near death experiences are not seeing god. They're simply hallucinating.

But why are so many of the hallucinations so similar?

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

But why are so many of the hallucinations so similar?

For the same reason people see and hear similar things when choked, or when experiencing high G, or taking drugs, or whatever else. Because our brains are similar and react in similar ways to a given stimulant.

Individuals will all vary a bit, or occasionally a lot, because we are all slightly different. But we all have pretty much the same organs that work in pretty much the same way.

The majority of us experience most sensory things, and even most emotions, in similar ways. Why would it be any surprise we also do with oxygen deprivation?

 

[nota bene]

For the same reason people see and hear similar things when choked, or when experiencing high G, or taking drugs, or whatever else. Because our brains are similar and react in similar ways to a given stimulant.

Individuals will all vary a bit, or occasionally a lot, because we are all slightly different. But we all have pretty much the same organs that work in pretty much the same way.

The majority of us experience most sensory things, and even most emotions, in similar ways. Why would it be any surprise we also do with oxygen deprivation?

That's quite a leap from a claimed similarity in brains to the specifics so frequently reported in NDEs. I'm not even sure about people seeing and hearing similar things when choked, or when experiencing high G, or taking drugs."

 

[humbolt]

Such experiences aren't limited to near death experiences, drugs, oxygen deprivation or the like. They happen to people living seemingly normal lives as well.

 

[SmokeAndMirrors]

That's quite a leap from a claimed similarity in brains to the specifics so frequently reported in NDEs. I'm not even sure about people seeing and hearing similar things when choked, or when experiencing high G, or taking drugs."

Like I said, humans report most experiences of any kind of stimulus to be pretty similar. So, no, it isn't.

Then take a read somewhere.

 

[countryboy]

well Jesus raised three from the dead in the Bible so what if he has continued with that?

God can do whatever he wants. Can you test that theory in light of Scripture?

 

[countryboy]

That is of course only believed by those who believe the Bible. Fear of judgement, as I said, is a human construct.

That is your opinion. And yes, I am arguing from a Christian worldview.

 

[RAMOSS]

But why are so many of the hallucinations so similar?

Because they were told and conditioned by their culture.This is why Hindu's tend to see vishnu and shiva,

 

[Quag]

Lately I have come upon more stories of people who claim to have died and been sent back or claim to have visited heaven. Over the years there have been many of these claims.

All of their stories vary some a bit, and some a lot. But one thing that does not change amongst any one them is the lack of judgement and condemnation.

Religions are big on judgement and condemnation. If you don't believe in a specific way, if you don't act in a certain manner, you will burn in hell for all of eternity.

Why do all of these returning souls, many who come back healed from various ailments, not come back with messages of repent or be damned? Rather they all come back with, god is love, god is light, god heals.

Opinions?

Because God only sends the good ones back?

 

[HowardBThiname]

Lately I have come upon more stories of people who claim to have died and been sent back or claim to have visited heaven. Over the years there have been many of these claims.

All of their stories vary some a bit, and some a lot. But one thing that does not change amongst any one them is the lack of judgement and condemnation.

Religions are big on judgement and condemnation. If you don't believe in a specific way, if you don't act in a certain manner, you will burn in hell for all of eternity.

Why do all of these returning souls, many who come back healed from various ailments, not come back with messages of repent or be damned? Rather they all come back with, god is love, god is light, god heals.

Opinions?

There are actually a small percentage of frightening NDE's.

Frightening NDEs

Just my opinion, but I'd hazard a guess that those who have frightening NDE's are most likely religious people who harbor guilt about something. In researching NDE's from all over the world, one thing is clear...people see that which they expect to see. For example, a Muslim might feel the presence of Allah, while a pagan might experience the Goddess.

Is there some sort of energy that awaits us when we die? I don't know, but even if it's a chemical surge at the moment, or moments following, death that makes it pleasant for most - it's all good.

 

[Ntharotep]

The Bible is explicitly clear, everyone dies once, and is judged. Sounds like this guy had a vivid dream, at best. Imho.

It is given unto a man to die once...unless his name happens to be Lazerus?

I think the crux of the matter is man's arrogance in thinking its up to us to judge what happens to a person when they die or come close to dying outside of our skillset for saving their lives of course...
But that's just me.