Baby Parts for Sale

[steen]

Here are some sites that tell the other side of the story.

ALL? that's Judie Brown, right? As much of a misogy7nistic fundie nut as anybody. I already know the claptrap hate mongering lies that she spews.

 

[Felicity]

Thus we go right back to the circle jerk of sentience in the womb.....which is pointless. As I will no longer listen to the Emotional plea, and those who focus on the emotions pay little attention to the science.

Yeah...you and I have gone 'round on this issue before--but I still am not sure how "my" particular explanation ignores science and falls victim to emotion. I think measuring what is "a person" based on arbitrary functioning that can't be agreed upon is more an emotional conclusion that specifically looking at the biological "facts" of the entity such as species and life.

And so.....it becomes an issue of freedom....and of Law. I am sorry but, when you associate with people who wish to call me a murderer, because of my opinion, you're "Side" of this debate loses respect in my mind, and pushes me away from the middle.

So...just because some people on a side can get over emotional and accusatory, then all arguments that may come to the same conclusion are tainted? You yourself come across as an emotional guy and you have been known to be reactionary--and for God's sake--steen goes off his nut regularly! Does that mean I shouldn't consider anything a pro-choicer says? No. That would be letting my emotions taint my perspective.

Pardon the pun--don't throw the baby out with the bathwater! :mrgreen:

 

[ngdawg]

It's not your life to give. I noticed in an earlier post that you said, "Granted, I signed over my ownership a long time ago..." I don't "own" my offspring--they are in my care. When you "own" your offspring, you are admitting to a "master/slave" relationship--you, the "master/owner" of your offspring. The ebryonic life is not "yours" to dispose of as you deem appropriate. Yes--legally you can--ethically, not.

Ethically, I can and DID since ethics is a personal choice of mine, not yours.
As for ownership, that is what it was-they were frozen embryos in a cryogenic tank for which I paid storage. Just as my living offspring are mine to raise, a newborn is the parents' to raise or give for adoption, embryos are the possession of the one who created them until such time as that possessor gives them up, one way or another.
If not mine, whose? I don't equate my children with my sofa or pc, but apparently you've taken it upon yourself to assume otherwise-a trait I find most annoying.

 

[Dr. Giggles]

As a counter argument to this debate, why not take out the subject of ethics alltogether. We are able to be "organ donors", and donate organs, whether we are alive or dead, to others. The very nature of the word donate implies that we have some sense of ownership in something. Some choose to "donate" sperm and egg cells to other non fertile couples, some choose to "donate" these same to researchers in the name of science. Lets talk about adoption without ethics. Again, by its nature, the term adoption implies that someone has "given up" something to be possessed by another. If we can "donate" our children to other couples, what is the next step. I dont know if anyone has ever seen the movie "Soldier", where children were "donated" and "adopted" by the military to create a better race of soldier. To those who try to view abortion without a sence of ethics, this is the road that they would like to see us go down. To those who believe in a full legalization of abortion, they should sit quietly and think about how the world would be if someone went back and retroactively aborted them.

 

[ngdawg]

To those who believe in a full legalization of abortion, they should sit quietly and think about how the world would be if someone went back and retroactively aborted them.

Uh, that's just ridiculous.1) That'd be like asking, 'remember what the world was like before you were born?' 2) you can't miss something you never had, thusly, if one never had a life, one can not then miss having it.
But, thanks for the giggle, Giggles.

 

[steen]

... I dont know if anyone has ever seen the movie "Soldier", where children were "donated" and "adopted" by the military to create a better race of soldier. To those who try to view abortion without a sence of ethics, this is the road that they would like to see us go down.

I find it fascinating that you use a hollywood movie as somehow being 'evidence' of prochoice views. How bizzare.

To those who believe in a full legalization of abortion, they should sit quietly and think about how the world would be if someone went back and retroactively aborted them.

:roll: Is this a lame remark or a death threat?

 

[tryreading]

I'm against IVF for this very reason....I say stop IVF and adopt out the embryos that are remaining--(and no "selective reductions!").

There are an estimated 400,000 frozen embryos. If these are 'adopted' by people who want children but can't have them, I'm thinking there are 400,000 born kids who will not be adopted. Which is more important?

http://www.bioethics.gov/reports/reproductionandresponsibility/chapter8.html

 

[vergiss]

To those who believe in a full legalization of abortion, they should sit quietly and think about how the world would be if someone went back and retroactively aborted them.

While you're at it, sit and ponder how the world would be if your parents hadn't had sex at the very moment that they did.

 

[ngdawg]

I'm against IVF for this very reason....I say stop IVF and adopt out the embryos that are remaining--(and no "selective reductions!").

NOW I take offense...hard to do for me.
It took us ten TEN years to conceive and that long for medical science to catch up to my desires. (I tried adoption-didn't work out. For those who say just adopt, YOU come up with the constant flow of cash needed for that.)
How DARE you think you are some omnipotent and all knowing as to dismiss an entire population of infertiles with your unrealistic meanderings.
We can't HAVE babies, we can't NOT have babies????? We HAVE to carry 10 embryos, essentially killing them all so YOU can 'save a life' and feel good about yourself??? You're intolerable at times, and this is definitely one of those.

 

[Engimo]

While you're at it, sit and ponder how the world would be if your parents hadn't had sex at the very moment that they did.

People should be required to have sex at all times! Think of all the potential lives you are destroying by not impregnating/being impregnated right now? Life starts at sperm/egg, I say.

 

[Stace]

People should be required to have sex at all times! Think of all the potential lives you are destroying by not impregnating/being impregnated right now? Life starts at sperm/egg, I say.

Well in that case, we need to figure out a way for pregnancy to be shortened. And find a way to prevent women from going through menopause. And maybe find a way for us to produce more eggs so there is a greater possibility of conception occurring :2razz:

 

[Caine]

So..................
Are the people who sell thier sperm evil?

Sperm is a part that creates a baby, therefore a baby part.

Do you think sperm donating is "evil" ????

 

[Engimo]

Well in that case, we need to figure out a way for pregnancy to be shortened. And find a way to prevent women from going through menopause. And maybe find a way for us to produce more eggs so there is a greater possibility of conception occurring :2razz:

Yes! And male masturbation should be given the death penalty - millions of potential children being thrown away in a tissue. One of those sperm could one day cure cancer or AIDS, and people just flippantly kill them. You know what, ejaculation is murder.

 

[tryreading]

Do you think sperm donating is "evil" ????

Yes, because you have to masturbate into a cup, right? (Paraphrased from a line in a Woody Allen movie)

 

[Proudly Pro Life JP Freem]

So..................
Are the people who sell thier sperm evil?

Sperm is a part that creates a baby, therefore a baby part.

You have to be kidding. Sperm is not a Baby. We are talking about a live human being butchered for body parts. Naturally they kill the baby first, In the case of Brain cells they puncture the babies skull while the baby is alive then using suction remove the brain cells. naturally the baby is killed in the process.

Do you think sperm donating is "evil" ????

No because usually the sperm is used to create a new human being.

 

[CoffeeSaint]

No because usually the sperm is used to create a new human being.

Not all of it. In fact, not all of it is used to create a new baby when you have sex; isn't each ejaculation something like 100,000 sperm? And only one gets to make a child.
You know what happens to the rest of those sperm? They swim the equivalent of miles in their scale, their little hearts fit to burst, their little muscles screaming with fatigue, while all around them are enemies, bumping, shoving, jostling. They reach their goal, at last! their Mecca! Their paradise! The entire reason for their existence! Only to find out: some other spermatozoan got there first. The door is shut. It was all for nothing.
And then what? Either they are washed out, drowning in the flood of toilet water, freezing to death in the sewers with all of the human waste choking their poor little throats, or they waste away, dying a slow, agonizing death, just because humans haven't seen fit to find a way to save the sperm.
Isn't that cruel?

 

[steen]

You have to be kidding. Sperm is not a Baby.

neither are embryos or babies.

We are talking about a live human being butchered for body parts.

False.

Naturally they kill the baby first,

False.

In the case of Brain cells they puncture the babies skull while the baby is alive then using suction remove the brain cells.

False.

naturally the baby is killed in the process.

False.

No because usually the sperm is used to create a new human being

A potential mhuman being. Just like the sperm has potential and is life.

 

[Proudly Pro Life JP Freem]

Touchee!

To prove I still have some imagination left and not to be outdone by you Coffee Saint. I have been practicing my steen imitatation. so as to kill two birds with one stone. Here we go.

QUOTE=CoffeeSaint]Not all of it. In fact, not all of it is used to create a new baby when you have sex; isn't each ejaculation something like 100,000 sperm? And only one gets to make a child.

(JP in his steen voice) Could you please provide documentation for that?

(Coffee Saint) You know what happens to the rest of those sperm? They swim the equivalent of miles in their scale, their little hearts fit to burst, their little muscles screaming with fatigue, while all around them are enemies, bumping, shoving, jostling.

(JP in his steen voice) What is 'organic pain"? because certainly the conscious ability to feel is not even PHYSICALLY possible until the end of the 26th week of pregnancy. I provided the medical, scientific evidence for that several times before, so you can't claim to have missed it.

(JP must interject) Mr steen I have witness the birth of 5 premature babies all of them under 26 weeks I could honestly state they all felt pain. Sorry Coffee Saint for interrupting

(Coffee Saint) They reach their goal, at last! their Mecca! Their paradise! The entire reason for their existence! Only to find out: some other spermatozoan got there first. The door is shut. It was all for nothing.

(JP in his steen voice)Yes, I realize this is your one-trick-pony claim to fame, which makes it doubly sad, but it still is nonsense.

(Coffee Saint) And then what? Either they are washed out, drowning in the flood of toilet water, freezing to death in the sewers with all of the human waste choking their poor little throats, or they waste away, dying a slow, agonizing death, just because humans haven't seen fit to find a way to save the sperm.

(JP in his steen voice) Ah, more ad hominems. BTW, did you get your brain yet?


Coffee Saint Isn't that cruel?

(JP in his steen voice) Really? Because you say so?
So yes, the prolife lies are STILL LIES!

(JP back in his own Voice) Coffee Saint I apologize I did not know you cared so much for the sperm I am sorry I can not rush to your aid to defend sperm. You see sperm is not a human being.. DNA says right at conception we have a human being . What do you think of my steen imitation. I have noticed his replies to many things on this site are the same. I tried to demonstrate the way he does it here. Merely cutting and pasting the same replies over and over. This probally comes from lack of a imagination and feelings. So to you steen get some new material. I grow tired of your ad hominems. God Bless everyone have a Happy New YEAR!!! JP

:memorial_

 

[Felicity]

JP--you forgot lyinghyperbolicrevivisionistmisogynistproliefundiebecauseyousaysosophistclaptrap:stooges

 

[Stace]

JP--you forgot lyinghyperbolicrevivisionistmisogynistproliefundiebecauseyousaysosophistclaptrap:stooges

Pro lie? I don't think Steen would go that far...

But hey, if that's how y'all think of yourselves....:2razz:

 

[Engimo]

(Coffee Saint) And then what? Either they are washed out, drowning in the flood of toilet water, freezing to death in the sewers with all of the human waste choking their poor little throats, or they waste away, dying a slow, agonizing death, just because humans haven't seen fit to find a way to save the sperm.

(JP in his steen voice) Ah, more ad hominems. BTW, did you get your brain yet?

Er.. do you have any idea what an ad hominem fallacy actually
is? What you quoted is not an ad hominem in any way.

"An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument."
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html

There was no personal attack in that quote. If you're going to make fun of someone, at least make sense.

 

[Felicity]

Pro lie? I don't think Steen would go that far...

But hey, if that's how y'all think of yourselves....:2razz:

No, dear--that wasn't a typo--he says that nonsense.

 

[steen]

I see the trolls are out in full force tonight.:roll:

 

[G.W.]

Yes unfortunately it is true. .....Baby_Body_Parts/[/url]

My Good fellow JP,

Can you kindly tell us how much are they asking for these parts? You see, since I put restriction on Stem Cell Research, these parts may satisfy the research needs of wining researches.

Thank you,
G.W.

 

[Dr. Giggles]

I am sure, given the time and opportunity, someone would take you up on that.