Authorities release new details about police shooting of Jacob Blake

[jaeger19]

Yeah, over here teach. How does a man get tased (which is nowhere to be seen in the video) and still walk briskly away from four or five cops?

Defective taser.
Or the taser electrodes did not penetrate the skin..
Or the police did not deploy the taser correctly.

 

[Metric Mouse]

Defective taser.
Or the taser electrodes did not penetrate the skin..
Or the police did not deploy the taser correctly.

Misses are common. It's not a perfect system.

 

[bluesmoke]

I don't know. Maybe the folks stopped by cops in Europe don't act like violent, drug addicted thugs threatening violence.

What's your theory?

That cops here are prone to use of gun and our legal system is systemically racist, including law enforcement, as made evident by disparate impact.

 

[code1211]

That cops here are prone to use of gun and our legal system is systemically racist, including law enforcement, as made evident by disparate impact.

Your assertions are not founded in rationality or fact.

The chances of an unarmed person being killed by an American Cop is about 1 in a million. That rate drops significantly if encounters with the same person is counted.

The chances of being killed by a Canadian cop is higher than that and being killed by a Mexican cop (or soldier since they are the effective "Federalies") is in orbit. About 3000 in five years.

The Myth Of An Epidemic Of Racist Police Shootings Is Wrong, And Dangerous

A myth has been propagated by the media that there is an epidemic of racially biased shootings in America, a West Virginia police chief said.

dailycaller.com

What we know about the last 100 people shot and killed by police in Canada

Indigenous and Black Canadians face an increased likelihood of being shot and killed by police, as do adults aged 20 to 34, according to a CTV News analysis of the last 100 fatal police shootings in Canada.

www.ctvnews.ca

Mexican Military Runs Up Body Count in Drug War (Published 2016)

The statistics on deaths, which the government has stopped reporting, offer a rare glimpse into the Mexican military’s role in its fight against cartels.

www.nytimes.com

 

[bluesmoke]

"Specific," as in recorded cases.

Are you really saying you don't believe that what I describe has happened? You've never even read or heard of such?

 

[bluesmoke]

someone should tell Google

I, obviously, had no problem getting what I sent you, from Bing. Maybe you should start using Bing.

 

[Ouroboros]

Are you really saying you don't believe that what I describe has happened? You've never even read or heard of such?

My belief would be greater if you or someone could cite examples in which not cooperating with cops turned out well for the alleged victims.

 

[bluesmoke]

Your assertions are not founded in rationality or fact.

The chances of an unarmed person being killed by an American Cop is about 1 in a million. That rate drops significantly if encounters with the same person is counted.

The chances of being killed by a Canadian cop is higher than that and being killed by a Mexican cop (or soldier since they are the effective "Federalies") is in orbit. About 3000 in five years.

The Myth Of An Epidemic Of Racist Police Shootings Is Wrong, And Dangerous

A myth has been propagated by the media that there is an epidemic of racially biased shootings in America, a West Virginia police chief said.

dailycaller.com

What we know about the last 100 people shot and killed by police in Canada

Indigenous and Black Canadians face an increased likelihood of being shot and killed by police, as do adults aged 20 to 34, according to a CTV News analysis of the last 100 fatal police shootings in Canada.

www.ctvnews.ca

Mexican Military Runs Up Body Count in Drug War (Published 2016)

The statistics on deaths, which the government has stopped reporting, offer a rare glimpse into the Mexican military’s role in its fight against cartels.

www.nytimes.com

You pick out two countries to refute the whole number of developed countries? Really? Canada only confirms that its black people are the ones being shot. Do you get that? As low as the numbers are in other developed countries compared to the US, it could very well be the same. Black people in white or other colored countries are discriminated against. However few the number, the few is too many. And when you compare countries, that is most telling. You can argue we have the best economy in the world, but not that we have the lowest rate of killing unarmed black people among "developed" countries.

 

[code1211]

You pick out two countries to refute the whole number of developed countries? Really? Canada only confirms that its black people are the ones being shot. Do you get that? As low as the numbers are in other developed countries compared to the US, it could very well be the same. Black people in white or other colored countries are discriminated against. However few the number, the few is too many. And when you compare countries, that is most telling. You can argue we have the best economy in the world, but not that we have the lowest rate of killing unarmed black people among "developed" countries.

In passing, I will point out that my post and the statics I posted regarding the killing of Unarmed Citizens included ALL AMERICANS.

That you converted that to include only BLACK Americans is telling.

When a person sees all things only through the prism of race, they are racists.

 

[bluesmoke]

My belief would be greater if you or someone could cite examples in which not cooperating with cops turned out well for the alleged victims.

Let me clarify. I'm saying one can

My belief would be greater if you or someone could cite examples in which not cooperating with cops turned out well for the alleged victims.

I didn’t say, as you state, “not cooperating with cops turned out well for the alleged victims.”, though I’ve seen plenty of film where people have not cooperated but the cop managed the situation in complete control of themselves without getting physical. However, that's beside my point. I said “Getting slammed over the hood of a car or thrown to the ground and held down does not necessarily result in injury. You may be resisting not by intent and still get killed.” Meaning, a cop might treat someone roughly even though they’ve not done anything to deserve such treatment. If you actually do not know of people getting or believe people get treated undeservedly roughly by LEO, please advise.

I hope I’ve clarified for you.

 

[Ouroboros]

Let me clarify. I'm saying one can



I didn’t say, as you state, “not cooperating with cops turned out well for the alleged victims.”, though I’ve seen plenty of film where people have not cooperated but the cop managed the situation in complete control of themselves without getting physical. However, that's beside my point. I said “Getting slammed over the hood of a car or thrown to the ground and held down does not necessarily result in injury. You may be resisting not by intent and still get killed.” Meaning, a cop might treat someone roughly even though they’ve not done anything to deserve such treatment. If you actually do not know of people getting or believe people get treated undeservedly roughly by LEO, please advise.

I hope I’ve clarified for you.

I already stated that there are no guarantees that.all cops will act correctly. If you hold the opinion that there’s a distinct reason why American cops err more often, fine. But that does not counter my statement that one’s chances for injury and death escalate when a citizen deliberately resists arrest, as Jacob Blake did.

 

[bluesmoke]

In passing, I will point out that my post and the statics I posted regarding the killing of Unarmed Citizens included ALL AMERICANS.

That you converted that to include only BLACK Americans is telling.

When a person sees all things only through the prism of race, they are racists.

The issue is of police killing unarmed black Americans in greater proportion than of white people and that such is an indication of systemic racism in our legal system, including in law enforcement. You can't show otherwise. Why does your "prism" not see that? Why do people who give an example o racism are called racist for pointing out that a race or ethnicity is discriminated against? You make no sense at all. Racist are people who believe other of color, race, ethnicity, etc., are inferior or that one's own is superior. As usual, fact and code1211 are polar opposite.

 

[code1211]

The issue is of police killing unarmed black Americans in greater proportion than of white people and that such is an indication of systemic racism in our legal system, including in law enforcement. You can't show otherwise. Why does your "prism" not see that? Why do people who give an example o racism are called racist for pointing out that a race or ethnicity is discriminated against? You make no sense at all. Racist are people who believe other of color, race, ethnicity, etc., are inferior or that one's own is superior. As usual, fact and code1211 are polar opposite.

Do you have a link to support the highlighted fallacy?

 

[bluesmoke]

I already stated that there are no guarantees that.all cops will act correctly. If you hold the opinion that there’s a distinct reason why American cops err more often, fine. But that does not counter my statement that one’s chances for injury and death escalate when a citizen deliberately resists arrest, as Jacob Blake did.

I didn't say otherwise. You're the one that pretended I said something that I did not. I kindly worded my response as a clarification.

 

[Ouroboros]

I didn't say otherwise. You're the one that pretended I said something that I did not. I kindly worded my response as a clarification.

I believe you may have mistaken my emphasis on a desire for documentation for an assumption about your position. Remember, you asked me about whether or not I believed that injuries might have happened to cooperative suspects. That’s what I responded to.

 

[bluesmoke]

Do you have a link to support the highlighted fallacy?

As I've said before on other thread, you've at numerous times not provided me with requested support of claims you've made, so you do not deserve the courtesy of such when you ask. You're not an honest or forthright debater. See you on another thread.

 

[bluesmoke]

I believe you may have mistaken my emphasis on a desire for documentation for an assumption about your position. Remember, you asked me about whether or not I believed that injuries might have happened to cooperative suspects. That’s what I responded to.

To get to the point, that an uncooperative person is more likely to be injured or killed by LEO is not the point. The point is that cooperative or not, unarmed black people are being killed by LEO disproportionately compared to white people. It takes little, very little, for an officer to determine someone is being uncooperative or resisting arrest. With so many other officers around, killing that person is not an appropriate response. That somebody is “uncooperative” does not justify escalation to a killing and does not change the systemic racist nature of legal system outcomes.

 

[Ouroboros]

And I maintain that while there are individual cases suggestive of racism, not every case supports the claim of systemic racism— least of all Jacob Blake. He did an extremely stupid thing and got killed for it. I believe the exact same thing would have happened had Blake been white, except that the media would have given the case no attention whatever.

 

[jaeger19]

And I maintain that while there are individual cases suggestive of racism, not every case supports the claim of systemic racism— least of all Jacob Blake. He did an extremely stupid thing and got killed for it. I believe the exact same thing would have happened had Blake been white, except that the media would have given the case no attention whatever.

Hmmm... I would suggest that your belief is not based on reality.

 

[bluesmoke]

And I maintain that while there are individual cases suggestive of racism, not every case supports the claim of systemic racism— least of all Jacob Blake. He did an extremely stupid thing and got killed for it. I believe the exact same thing would have happened had Blake been white, except that the media would have given the case no attention whatever.

Actually, its the other way around. Individual cases can less be said racist while it's the whole number, statistically, of cases that are telling of systemic racism.

LEO killing unarmed people happens proportionately less with white people than with black people. So, in effect, it is less likely the same thing would have happened with a white person, not the exact same thing as you say.

 

[Ouroboros]

Hmmm... I would suggest that your belief is not based on reality.

If you don’t specify your objections, you can’t demonstrate any superior knowledge of reality.

 

[Ouroboros]

Actually, its the other way around. Individual cases can less be said racist while it's the whole number, statistically, of cases that are telling of systemic racism.

LEO killing unarmed people happens proportionately less with white people than with black people. So, in effect, it is less likely the same thing would have happened with a white person, not the exact same thing as you say.

The problem with your attempt at reversal is that I am positing, for sake of argument, an exact duplication of the circumstances of the Blake case, except that the person foolishly provoking armed cops is white.

In the real world, every case is different. You are appealing to statistical studies that assert an overall unifying factor in cases dealing with the response of cops to black suspects, and that factor has not been proven to my satisfaction. In case you have not heard, there are competing studies that contradict those “proving” systemic racism, though they don’t get as much publicity in the media.

Are there individual cases where cops have acted badly because a suspect was black? Yes, and I can name some myself,as I assume you could if motivated. But the Jacob Blake case does not qualify as one of these because the black guy did something so stupid that it would have got a white guy killed for the same thing. When anyone acts in a threatening manner to armed cops, the cops don’t see color; they see the possibility of their own deaths. And not all the statistical studies in the world can erase that inconvenient truth.

 

[jaeger19]

The problem with your attempt at reversal is that I am positing, for sake of argument, an exact duplication of the circumstances of the Blake case, except that the person foolishly provoking armed cops is white.

In the real world, every case is different. You are appealing to statistical studies that assert an overall unifying factor in cases dealing with the response of cops to black suspects, and that factor has not been proven to my satisfaction. In case you have not heard, there are competing studies that contradict those “proving” systemic racism, though they don’t get as much publicity in the media.

Are there individual cases where cops have acted badly because a suspect was black? Yes, and I can name some myself,as I assume you could if motivated. But the Jacob Blake case does not qualify as one of these because the black guy did something so stupid that it would have got a white guy killed for the same thing. When anyone acts in a threatening manner to armed cops, the cops don’t see color; they see the possibility of their own deaths. And not all the statistical studies in the world can erase that inconvenient truth.

Yeah..I don't think a white guy would have been shot by the police in this instance.

 

[Ouroboros]

Yeah..I don't think a white guy would have been shot by the police in this instance.

You're entitled to your opinion, but reaching into your car when you've been told not to move doesn't exactly sound like a smart move for any member of any race.

 

[bluesmoke]

You're entitled to your opinion, but reaching into your car when you've been told not to move doesn't exactly sound like a smart move for any member of any race.

Yeah. Especially for black people considering they're more likely to be killed in proportion to white people.