Authorities release new details about police shooting of Jacob Blake

[gdgyva]

speaking to a couple of my cop friends last night

they of course, werent there, but they were trying to put themselves in that position, and trying to figure out what the officers thinking was

i think the kids played a HUGE part in how this all went down....

first, when there is an incident, cops try to reduce the trauma the kids will suffer by seeing their parents treated harshly by the police

so they tried doing this probably too easily at first....then when he was unfazed by the taser, that is when things got out of control

maybe the officers were afraid of mistreatment charge, but by the time they realized their blunder, he was at the car door and it was much too late

was the shooting necessary? according to my friends, they couldnt let him get back in his car....

so you be the judge....would he have hurt his kids? i guess no one really knows what was in his mind.....

which is why being a cop is such a HARD job....making life and death decisions in split seconds, without the benefit of all the information we now have....i know i couldnt do it....and respect those that put on the uniform and try their best every day

 

[MaryP]

knowing how and being successful doing so are very distinct situations.
criminal life? my life... criminal life? my life...
my life wins every time.

My son has done it. It's part of the job. Saying it might be hard isn't a good excuse.

 

[Thom Paine]

Absolutely true. People have been shot while laying on the ground screaming "don't shoot". It's a failure of law enforcement training.

specifically .. how many times has that happened ?
inquiring mind wants to know here.

 

[Middleground]

Absolutely true. People have been shot while laying on the ground screaming "don't shoot". It's a failure of law enforcement training.

Agreed. And why did he have to be turned into swiss cheese? Seven shots at close range... like WTF? Was that really necessary?

 

[snakestretcher]

Yeah...you're right. The cop saw him getting a knife out of his car.

That criminal could have hypothetically been intending to just give it to the cop. After all, he had only just wrestled two of them, shrugged off a taser shot and ignored the orders from cops who had their guns drawn.

:doh :roll:

Did he 'see' him getting a knife? So why has it not been reported? What do you know that everyone else doesn't?

 

[Binary_Digit]

What came first?

Why should that matter? Who was a perceived threat and who was an actual threat?

Yeah...you're right. The cop saw him getting a knife out of his car.

That criminal could have hypothetically been intending to just give it to the cop. After all, he had only just wrestled two of them, shrugged off a taser shot and ignored the orders from cops who had their guns drawn.

:doh :roll:

Saw him getting a knife out of his car? What video did you watch? That cop didn't see anything except the door open when he opened fire. The man didn't even have a chance to reach inside for anything. Saw him getting a knife out of his car, GMAFB.

 

[Jredbaron96]

"An officer had grabbed Blake's shirt and fired his service weapon seven times into the 29-year-old's back, state investigators said."

The article never says the officer had seen the knife that was found, so instead of just pulling Blake back from the car he grabbed him and fired seven rounds into his back.

 

[Thom Paine]

Even if the cop saw him reaching for a knife, the situation was no where near the time to shoot the man. The man was not in possession of a weapon. What the man should have done changes none of that. The cop should not have shot him in the back 7 times and that is where the wrong is.

by his own admission ... he said he had a knife in hand ...

 

[Jredbaron96]

specifically .. how many times has that happened ?
inquiring mind wants to know here.

Charles Kinsey was one. Or about how about Philando Castile, who specifically stated he was not reaching for a weapon before he was shot at point blank range?

 

[snakestretcher]

I figured he was more involved in that call than first thought. Thinking he'd pull a knife on a bunch of armed cops wasn't using his brain cells, but the cop who shot him ? He wasn't either. Everyone was just reacting. There are pretty simple maneuvers for disarming a guy with a knife. Every correction officer knows how, so I'm assuming cops do too.

Exactly; you can walk away from a guy wielding a knife. A bullet? Not so much. The cop in question wasn't even threatened; he could have backed off to a safe distance. But no, that would have far too simple. Much better to empty his gun into the guy's back. I'm afraid the "I was in fear for my life" defence is going to look pretty ridiculous in this case.

 

[Metric Mouse]

I figured he was more involved in that call than first thought. Thinking he'd pull a knife on a bunch of armed cops wasn't using his brain cells, but the cop who shot him ? He wasn't either. Everyone was just reacting. There are pretty simple maneuvers for disarming a guy with a knife. Every correction officer knows how, so I'm assuming cops do too.

The correction officers I have trained with have stated "the first thing to know about fighting a guy with a knife is that you're going to be stabbed."

It did seem odd that the first version of events was that "Jacob Blake stopped to break up a fight between two women, and when police arrived they followed him to his car and shot him in the back." That's why I'm glad more information is coming out.

I can't think of a good way to de-escalate this situation once the tasers were deployed ineffectively.

 

[Jredbaron96]

by his own admission ... he said he had a knife in hand ...

Citation needed. In the video he is not holding a knife and the time lapse between the the car door opening and Blake being shot, coupled with the vantage point of the officer, does not suggest the cop knew he had a knife in his hand.

 

[snakestretcher]

With your obvious experience in situations like this, tell us exactly what the cop should have done and how the criminal would have reacted.

The cop should have simply backed off. With his back to the cop the victim was in no position to threaten him. That's how British cops are trained. Seems in the US you just give an idiot a badge and a gun and let him loose.

UK Cops Disarm Man Wielding a Machete | Firsthand | CBC - YouTube

Not a firearm in sight.

 

[Metric Mouse]

Exactly; you can walk away from a guy wielding a knife. A bullet? Not so much. The cop in question wasn't even threatened; he could have backed off to a safe distance. But no, that would have far too simple. Much better to empty his gun into the guy's back. I'm afraid the "I was in fear for my life" defence is going to look pretty ridiculous in this case.

Unfortunately the officer has to worry about the general public as well. What if Mr. Blake had grabbed a knife and threatened the occupants of the car? Or entered the car and sped away to avoid capture, getting in a wreck and injuring the occupants of the car or more people? I don't think that a reasonable person would believe that Mr. Blake, having ignored commands from the officers, fought with two officers to escape, been tased and then reached for a knife posed no threat to himself, the officers, the occupants of the vehicle or the general public.

 

[Mycroft]

Did he 'see' him getting a knife? So why has it not been reported? What do you know that everyone else doesn't?

Don't worry...it will be reported.

 

[Metric Mouse]

Citation needed. In the video he is not holding a knife and the time lapse between the the car door opening and Blake being shot, coupled with the vantage point of the officer, does not suggest the cop knew he had a knife in his hand.

The articles in the op state that Mr. Blake admitted to having a knife.

 

[Thom Paine]

Charles Kinsey was one. Or about how about Philando Castile, who specifically stated he was not reaching for a weapon before he was shot at point blank range?

you name two instances; I know of one additional.
hardly a common event.. certainly not enough to automatically level
blame at all instances and all LEOs.

 

[Metric Mouse]

Agreed. And why did he have to be turned into swiss cheese? Seven shots at close range... like WTF? Was that really necessary?

CNN offers some context for this:

Why police shoot so many times to bring down a suspect - CNN

 

[Jredbaron96]

The articles in the op state that Mr. Blake admitted to having a knife.

So the solution is to get within stabbing range despite the officers having ranged weapons.

Suddenly it all makes sense now.

 

[Jredbaron96]

certainly not enough to automatically level blame at all instances and all LEOs.

Did I blame all police? No, I specifically said it's a failure of law enforcement training.

But I can see you're trying too hard to defend law enforcement from any criticism to allow any reasonable digression.

 

[snakestretcher]

Don't worry...it will be reported.

Yeah, just like the "I was in fear for my life" excuse will be. This is how cops in a civilised country are trained how to deal with a genuine threat-and not a gun in sight:

UK Cops Disarm Man Wielding a Machete | Firsthand | CBC - YouTube

 

[Metric Mouse]

Bologna!

Have you seen the video of Daniel Leetin Shaver's death? George Floyd, while perhaps uncooperative at the time of his arrest, was handcuffed and prone on the ground when he was suffocated by 4 police officers kneeling on him for several minutes, long after he stopped struggling. People die following police commands far too often.

 

[Metric Mouse]

So the solution is to get within stabbing range despite the officers having ranged weapons.

Suddenly it all makes sense now.

Unfortunately police officers sometimes have to do such things to protect the general public. I imagine the officers were concerned about what might happen to the occupants of the vehicle if a man armed with a knife was allowed inside unimpeded.

 

[Thom Paine]

Citation needed. In the video he is not holding a knife and the time lapse between the the car door opening and Blake being shot, coupled with the vantage point of the officer, does not suggest the cop knew he had a knife in his hand.

read the police report..
legally, he is not required to see the knife to defend himself. reasonable suspicion and reasonable fear.

In Graham v. Connor, 490 U.S. 386, 395-396 (1989), the Supreme Court set out a “reasonableness” standard, rather than a “substantive due process” standard to determine whether a law enforcement officer acted unreasonably. The Court even spelled out the metric for determining reasonableness (emphasis mine):

Because “[t]he test of reasonableness under the Fourth Amendment is not capable of precise definition or mechanical application,” Bell v. Wolfish, 441 U.S. 520, 441 U.S. 559 (1979), however, its proper application requires careful attention to the facts and circumstances of each particular case, including the severity of the crime at issue, whether the suspect poses an immediate threat to the safety of the officers or others, and whether he is actively resisting arrest or attempting to evade arrest by flight. See Tennessee v. Garner, 471 U.S. at 471 U.S. 8-9 (the question is “whether the totality of the circumstances justifie a particular sort of. . . seizure”).

The “reasonableness” of a particular use of force must be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene, rather than with the 20/20 vision of hindsight. See Terry v. Ohio, supra, at 392 U.S. 20-22. *** The calculus of reasonableness must embody allowance for the fact that police officers are often forced to make split-second judgments — in circumstances that are tense, uncertain, and rapidly evolving — about the amount of force that is necessary in a particular situation.

 

[code1211]

Then why not taze him instead?

Why shoot him 7 times?

I've read several reports saying that they tazed him and it seemed to have no effect.