Attractiveness of Christianity

What do you think is the main reason why so many people are duped into believeing in totally unfounded, ridiculous disinformation. Why do they believe in a 2,000 year old book full of atrocities and hyperbole? I think why so many choose to believe in an invisable, omnipotent, sky daddy is that they are brainwashed by the time they are young, hence their b.s. detectors are still maturing; hence they take this mystical garbage as fact. I'd say to gather millions of followers, willing to do anything to please their imaginary friend, or secure a place in a fictional sky pagoda, Christianity NEEDS a villan. And they made Satan into one. Christiany thrives on the idea of a place of eternal torment. If it weren't for hell, I believe Christiany would vanish quickly. One needs to be threatened with eternal damnation and suffering, you must have a punishment for NOT choosing their diety. If not, what would you stand to lose from disbelieving?

I'm an athiest, but I'll give it a go. Everything you said is true. You did, however leave out a few things. God is also love and acceptance. Choice is involved, which is really the beauty of this religion. Christians make pretty good citizens. You want more from a religion?

Loki said:

I'm an athiest, but I'll give it a go. Everything you said is true. You did, however leave out a few things. God is also love and acceptance. Choice is involved, which is really the beauty of this religion. Christians make pretty good citizens. You want more from a religion?

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Yea I did leave out quite a few reasons. I think a big reason is that people like to pass the blame to an imaginary friend, they don't want to be held responsible for their actions. They need that "security balnket" in the sky to keep them on the right path. They also want so badly to believe they will be reunited with their loved ones when they die.

I think of pretty much every organised religion as being a form of brain washing.

star2589 said:

I think of pretty much every organised religion as being a form of brain washing.

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Right, and it starts at a very early age. When a child is very young, they don't have a strong sense of denial, hence they buy into mystical fairy stories. And as they get older, these mystical fairy tales take a stronger hold, and these people breed and give birth to more children and the sad cycle continues. It's never-ending.

As Loki said, I agree with pretty much everything in your OP. I do, though, think that there is another side of this issue. Faith in a higher power or a divine essence can help to provide comfort and motivation. It gives some a solid moral system to believe in and can provide a positive social atmosphere to interact in.

These are just some positives. You have certainly identified many of the negatives. Any religion, when it becomes evangelical, fundementalistic, and indoctrinates others blindly cannot provide any of the positives that it claims to. Arrogance, intolerance, and closed-mindedness often result. Not all involved, religiously, fall under this category, however. And not all youth are brainwashed at an early age. It depends on how dogmatic the religious principles that are being presented to the youth, are.

star2589 said:

I think of pretty much every organised religion as being a form of brain washing.

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So are public school and military training.

Doesn't mean it's a bad thing.

Korimyr the Rat said:

So are public school and military training.

Doesn't mean it's a bad thing.

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I certainly hope I've not been brainwashed by public schooling.

I disagree about brainwashing. I suppose it might not be such a bad thing if everyone was brainwashed into thinking the same thing, the world might be more peaceful. but brainwashing never affects everyone the same way, so instead you're left with the masses who believe one thing, and everyone else who has absolutly no way of communicating with the masses.

For religion to work....it needs to be silent,and held within the hearts of the individual. It becomes dangerous,sometimes deadly when it is forced to spread.

Much Like a Virus.

I dont care if anyone else is infected with a benign Pathogen, it cannot hurt me. But if you become contagious....go into Quarantine.

Religion also offers an easy answear to everything. ie " don't question it ..God just made it that way."

kal-el said:

What do you think is the main reason why so many people are duped into believeing in totally unfounded, ridiculous disinformation. Why do they believe in a 2,000 year old book full of atrocities and hyperbole? I think why so many choose to believe in an invisable, omnipotent, sky daddy is that they are brainwashed by the time they are young, hence their b.s. detectors are still maturing; hence they take this mystical garbage as fact. I'd say to gather millions of followers, willing to do anything to please their imaginary friend, or secure a place in a fictional sky pagoda, Christianity NEEDS a villan. And they made Satan into one. Christiany thrives on the idea of a place of eternal torment. If it weren't for hell, I believe Christiany would vanish quickly. One needs to be threatened with eternal damnation and suffering, you must have a punishment for NOT choosing their diety. If not, what would you stand to lose from disbelieving?

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I don't know. I am not a Biblical literalist, but I think Christ's general message of peace, love, and understanding offers the best hope for mankind. It is a shame that so many Chrisitans pay no heed to it.

kal-el said:

Yea I did leave out quite a few reasons. I think a big reason is that people like to pass the blame to an imaginary friend, they don't want to be held responsible for their actions. They need that "security balnket" in the sky to keep them on the right path. They also want so badly to believe they will be reunited with their loved ones when they die.

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It's the "life after death" part that is most common in pretty much all religions. That and "the devil made me do it".

The morality of peace, love, and understanding, as mentioned above, alone makes Christianity look attractive to me. Add in the concept of free will and the personal responsibility that comes with being able to choose your own actions, and you've got a good glimpse of some of my values, at least what I strive to live.

As for the concept of hell, if it exists, I tend to go more with the 'old school' Catholic version of it. Basically, throw out the Dante and fire and brimstones and it comes down to two simple descriptions. Heaven is being in the direct prescience of God and hell is not.

dogger807 said:

Religion also offers an easy answear to everything. ie " don't question it ..God just made it that way."

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I'd actually have to disagree with you there. Religion seems to actually add another layer to questions rather than giving easy answers. Let's go with creation. Someone asks, "How did the universe come about?" Another person responds, "God did it." This answers the question, but adds two more. The questions how did God do it and why did God do it come from the one simpler question. One can technically be answered scientifically (which would be the answer to the first question if God hadn't been involved) and the second would be a matter of philosophy. If someone says don't question it, it tends to mean we don't know and involves even more searching. Unless of course you take religious sects that turn their holy book into scientific fact (such as people who hold the belief of 7-day creationism).

kal-el said:

What do you think is the main reason why so many people are duped into believeing in totally unfounded, ridiculous disinformation. Why do they believe in a 2,000 year old book full of atrocities and hyperbole? I think why so many choose to believe in an invisable, omnipotent, sky daddy is that they are brainwashed by the time they are young, hence their b.s. detectors are still maturing; hence they take this mystical garbage as fact. I'd say to gather millions of followers, willing to do anything to please their imaginary friend, or secure a place in a fictional sky pagoda, Christianity NEEDS a villan. And they made Satan into one. Christiany thrives on the idea of a place of eternal torment. If it weren't for hell, I believe Christiany would vanish quickly. One needs to be threatened with eternal damnation and suffering, you must have a punishment for NOT choosing their diety. If not, what would you stand to lose from disbelieving?

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You use to be Christian right?

TPG said:

The morality of peace, love, and understanding, as mentioned above, alone makes Christianity look attractive to me. Add in the concept of free will and the personal responsibility that comes with being able to choose your own actions, and you've got a good glimpse of some of my values, at least what I strive to live.

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Unfortunately, there are way too many who wish only to force other people to their way of thinking, hence, peace, love and understanding become moot points in reality. Strapping bombs onto oneself to blow up infidels after being promised 72 virgins in paradise comes to mind....

TPG said:

As for the concept of hell, if it exists, I tend to go more with the 'old school' Catholic version of it. Basically, throw out the Dante and fire and brimstones and it comes down to two simple descriptions. Heaven is being in the direct prescience of God and hell is not.

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Hell is a 'wait til your father gets home', only much more ominous and more on a global scale. Personally, I believe we create our own hells and our own heavens as we live.

TPG said:

I'd actually have to disagree with you there. Religion seems to actually add another layer to questions rather than giving easy answers. Let's go with creation. Someone asks, "How did the universe come about?" Another person responds, "God did it." This answers the question, but adds two more. The questions how did God do it and why did God do it come from the one simpler question. One can technically be answered scientifically (which would be the answer to the first question if God hadn't been involved) and the second would be a matter of philosophy. If someone says don't question it, it tends to mean we don't know and involves even more searching. Unless of course you take religious sects that turn their holy book into scientific fact (such as people who hold the belief of 7-day creationism).

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"God did it" is a lot quicker than going through the big bang, the merging of molecules, the beginnings of amino acids, atmospheric development, dinosaurs, evolutionary theory, etc....The problem with too many overly-religious types is that they give credit to an unknown entity, blame him for their own human failings and don't acknowledge personal, natural or global efforts. While it's certainly possible to chalk some things up to 'fate', nothing gets done nor does nothing succeed or fail without personal participation and choices.

I think religion natural developes in an society it always has and people ordinary can be brainwashed into any new religions look at scientology or the heavens gate people.

However presubly if what you believe is true everyone else has to be wrong hense religious intolerance people find it very difficult to tolerate someone who is clearly wrong to them the least reaction is pity and the worse hate.

Even if everyone was the same religion different factions would break out because of inerpretation science racial differences.Its a broken record thats been playing forever but people pick up different things every few turns.

kal-el said:

What do you think is the main reason why so many people are duped into believeing in totally unfounded, ridiculous disinformation. Why do they believe in a 2,000 year old book full of atrocities and hyperbole? I think why so many choose to believe in an invisable, omnipotent, sky daddy is that they are brainwashed by the time they are young, hence their b.s. detectors are still maturing; hence they take this mystical garbage as fact. I'd say to gather millions of followers, willing to do anything to please their imaginary friend, or secure a place in a fictional sky pagoda, Christianity NEEDS a villan. And they made Satan into one. Christiany thrives on the idea of a place of eternal torment. If it weren't for hell, I believe Christiany would vanish quickly. One needs to be threatened with eternal damnation and suffering, you must have a punishment for NOT choosing their diety. If not, what would you stand to lose from disbelieving?

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kal-el, I was afraid, something happened and you would not be back. Glad to see you back. Hope it was just a good vacation explaining why we were missing you here for quite a while.
You know, I have not seen Rev. for quite a while, too. You may have to broil in you own juice, when nobody disagrees with you.

kal-el said:

What do you think is the main reason why so many people are duped into believeing in totally unfounded, ridiculous disinformation. Why do they believe in a 2,000 year old book full of atrocities and hyperbole? I think why so many choose to believe in an invisable, omnipotent, sky daddy is that they are brainwashed by the time they are young, hence their b.s. detectors are still maturing; hence they take this mystical garbage as fact. I'd say to gather millions of followers, willing to do anything to please their imaginary friend, or secure a place in a fictional sky pagoda, Christianity NEEDS a villan. And they made Satan into one. Christiany thrives on the idea of a place of eternal torment. If it weren't for hell, I believe Christiany would vanish quickly. One needs to be threatened with eternal damnation and suffering, you must have a punishment for NOT choosing their diety. If not, what would you stand to lose from disbelieving?

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Regarding the Satan part of your post, I found this interesting article the other day. I started a thread on its premise, but it fizzled out.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/features/lifestyle/orl-poorsatan06sep02,0,7727905.story

kal-el said:

What do you think is the main reason why so many people are duped into believeing in totally unfounded, ridiculous disinformation. Why do they believe in a 2,000 year old book full of atrocities and hyperbole? I think why so many choose to believe in an invisable, omnipotent, sky daddy is that they are brainwashed by the time they are young, hence their b.s. detectors are still maturing; hence they take this mystical garbage as fact. I'd say to gather millions of followers, willing to do anything to please their imaginary friend, or secure a place in a fictional sky pagoda, Christianity NEEDS a villan. And they made Satan into one. Christiany thrives on the idea of a place of eternal torment. If it weren't for hell, I believe Christiany would vanish quickly. One needs to be threatened with eternal damnation and suffering, you must have a punishment for NOT choosing their diety. If not, what would you stand to lose from disbelieving?

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If "The God Part of the Brain" demands a belief in the divine to compensate for the unknown, then it is better to focus it through a religion which promotes love and forgiveness then one which requires you to strap on explosives and blow a buss full of kids.

If we accept Matthew Alpers explanation for the divine, then to deny the divine is to deny a part of yourself which has evolved as an advantage.

kal-el said:

What do you think is the main reason why so many people are duped into believeing in totally unfounded, ridiculous disinformation. Why do they believe in a 2,000 year old book full of atrocities and hyperbole? I think why so many choose to believe in an invisable, omnipotent, sky daddy is that they are brainwashed by the time they are young, hence their b.s. detectors are still maturing; hence they take this mystical garbage as fact. I'd say to gather millions of followers, willing to do anything to please their imaginary friend, or secure a place in a fictional sky pagoda, Christianity NEEDS a villan. And they made Satan into one. Christiany thrives on the idea of a place of eternal torment. If it weren't for hell, I believe Christiany would vanish quickly. One needs to be threatened with eternal damnation and suffering, you must have a punishment for NOT choosing their diety. If not, what would you stand to lose from disbelieving?

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Your post suggests you are not really open to debating this topic. The human mind is programmed for symbolic, metaphorical thought. Less advanced minds lock into that symbolic thought as a literal reality--religion. Some people cross the line between the symbolism and reality--schizophrenics. (side note: I think schizophrenia may actually be an early stage of evolution re-emerging in modern society. I imagine that many of our early ancestors--neanderthal or homo erectus--might share certain traits with schizophrenics).

Modern people, like myself, still need symbolic thought. We fill that need through art, literature or even dungeons and dragons.

dsanthony said:

Modern people, like myself, still need symbolic thought. We fill that need through art, literature or even dungeons and dragons.

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Do you play?

Actually, no. I've played a few times but never got into it. I do read Tarot, though.

I grew up near Michigan State. I don't know if you remember, but in the 70's a "whiz kid" 16 year old college student from MSU disappeared for several weeks, and the media was saying that he was playing D&D and vanished. So, my parents wouldn't let the game in the house... Funny, but of course I was about 10 at the time. Never got into it though.. more of a scrabble guy, or risk.

Ivan The Terrible said:

You use to be Christian right?

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Yep, for most of my life.

justone said:

kal-el, I was afraid, something happened and you would not be back. Glad to see you back. Hope it was just a good vacation explaining why we were missing you here for quite a while.
You know, I have not seen Rev. for quite a while, too. You may have to broil in you own juice, when nobody disagrees with you.

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Hey thanks bro.:2razz: Yea I spent some time over at the AN for awhile, but their server is slow as ****. Anyways here I am.

I think for most people religion is about tradition and spending time in a "like minded" community. The majority of religious people aren't fanatical or strict in their relgiious discipline. You could easily gather 100 christians and ask a wide variety of questions and recieve a surprising shock of different answers. That's especially true with Christianity because there are so many different types of christianity. But even in a Roman Catholic group you would find many people who disagreed with say the pope on many issues. I think calling all religious people brain washed is sort of over the top. It's nice to believe in something or have a foundation and if that works for people than what's wrong with that? It's not as if we can prove there is no God or that there is no life after death, or that we don't have souls. And while religion can get wildly out of control and cause hidious atrocities done in the name of some God for the most part the majority of religious people are fairly benign. At the very least it gets people thinking about spirituality, souls, and something bigger. Nothing wrong with that. I'm not religious but I haven't tossed away any and all notions of something more. I'm comfortable with not knowing and being open minded. Others are more comfortable following a tradition or perhaps they really know something that others don't.

Christianity can create very giving, loving, compassionate people. There's nothing wrong with that. I'd say it creates more good samaritans than awful peices of shite so there's that.