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Attack on Christmas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Navy Pride
Has anyone noticed this year our politically correct left wing friends attack on Christmas? The ACLU is bringing lawsuits against school districts that have Christmas Pageants and refer to the holidays as the Christmas holidays...They must be addressed as the holiday season and not the Christmas season...........This is happened in the school district where I live......Why does the left want God out of everything? I will never understand this.......

I am not that religeous of a person but I am God fearing and I believe if God is looking down on this world and sees what is happening he cannot be happy..........

Think about it............


Look at akyron's post below. These are real cases where the ACLU has fought for religious rights, and some of the cases involve protecting the rights of Christians in public school cases. A girl wanted to sing Awesome God at a school function, the ACLU protected that right. They are backing some schoolkids, also, who want to wear anti-abortion t-shirts in school. These are two examples, akyron posted many more where the ACLU is protecting Christian's rights.

I am not on the left, except on certain issues like personal rights, but the thing is to keep religion separate from government in this country.
 
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Navy Pride said:
I think if you live in a country that is predominately another culture or religion you respect that culture or religion....As and example if I lived in China I would expect the Buddist culture to dominate....If people come to this country then they have to expect the Christian culture to dominate......

I agree with this. Most all nations (if we define "nation" as a political entity, government, laws etc) are based on a culture and that culture is so entwined with religion even from primitive times that the religious influence is expressed in daily life (even communist (economics and politics) nations still have religious ties. The religion of a people is express in such every day things like a simple greeting that it cannot be separated from life by politics or economics. When you walk out in the street you are unconsciously bound by the religious culture of whatever nation you are in.

Around 80 percent of Americans identify themselves as Christians. The country was founded by people of Christian-Protestant belief and that religious background has a profund influence on the society. We are, like it or not to some, a Christian nation. It's only logical that we will celebrate the religion. I am sure that those people who are of other faiths realize when they come here that they have the freedom to practice their respective religions as they choose. What they do not have the right to do is to impose that thought on others and they realize that they must live in their everyday life in society with basic Christian ideals. The same is true in other cultures. If you go to work in Saudi Arabia for some company and you are not a Muslim you will receive some amount of training in the respect for Muslim beliefs in the Islamic society in which you are living. The same holds true for Hindu and Buddhist societies. Japan for example is not an over-religious society but it is a Buddhist society and you will soon find yourself doing "Buddhist things2 in the street if you expect to fit into the society. If you don't want to fit into the society it is better not to go there. You will be celebrating holidays that have their roots in the nation's religion be it Krishna or Buddhas birthday or what ever. Even the anti-religious forms of government were not able to erase religion from their social fabric. The communist tried to discourage the people from believing but there was no wholesale distruction of churches. Yes there was persecution but it was unable to wipe out religion completely. As soon as the communist dictators were gone people returned in numbers to their churches even before they held political elections and instituted a democratic form of government.
 
Navy Pride said:
The ACLU threatened a law suit and the weasley politically correct liberal school district caved but there were others that didn't...check the post above mine and try and keep up..........
AH HA! Your entire rant to start this thread is made up $hit by you! How typical! You purposely try to bait people into attacking anything that you disagree with yet you get your ass handed to you almost everytime.

Are you incapable of simply posting honest debate topics? You start polls that are totally stilted and now you're making it up as you go.

You started this thread on lies:
Navy Pride said:
Has anyone noticed this year our politically correct left wing friends attack on Christmas? The ACLU is bringing lawsuits against school districts that have Christmas Pageants and refer to the holidays as the Christmas holidays..
As always with your BS you make assertions without one shread of evidence, you're lying. Your post reads as if the ACLU is filing multiple lawsuits right now against "Christmas."
Navy Pride said:
This is happened in the school district where I live..
Yet now you completely backpedal and write this:
Navy Pride said:
The ACLU threatened a law suit and the weasley politically correct liberal school district caved but there were others that didn't...check the post above mine and try and keep up
Then to add to your deception you refer to events from years ago as if they're happening TODAY. You're quite the bullshitter aren't you?

:fueltofir :stop: :flame: :damn
 
Navy Pride said:
I think if you live in a country that is predominately another culture or religion you respect that culture or religion....As and example if I lived in China I would expect the Buddist culture to dominate....If people come to this country then they have to expect the Christian culture to dominate......
What are you talking about? I'm a Jewish American and I have no desire at all to have my children exposed to Christmas in public schools, none, zero. For you to write that majority voice has a say in the expression of religion in public is flat out WRONG and UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

I think you can take your Christmas and display anywhere you like EXCEPT in PUBLICLY owned buildings and government sponsored gatherings or institutions. If that is unacceptable to you Navy Pride maybe moving to a country where religious majority rules would make you happy?

As a Jew I resent having Christmas forced upon my family by people like you who think you have more rights re religion than I do because you're in the majority. Why am I not surprised that your point of view is chock full of prejudice?
 
Inuyasha said:
We are, like it or not to some, a Christian nation.

We are not, like it or not, a Christian nation. Only a Christian would say the above, which is fine, you are entitled to your opinion. But you are wrong.
 
YNKYH8R said:
You're comparing a communist country like China to us? Think about what you said here for a minute and you'll see difference. :doh

It has nothing to do with communism.......OK lets use Japan which is mostly Buddist too........
 
26 X World Champs said:
What are you talking about? I'm a Jewish American and I have no desire at all to have my children exposed to Christmas in public schools, none, zero. For you to write that majority voice has a say in the expression of religion in public is flat out WRONG and UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

I think you can take your Christmas and display anywhere you like EXCEPT in PUBLICLY owned buildings and government sponsored gatherings or institutions. If that is unacceptable to you Navy Pride maybe moving to a country where religious majority rules would make you happy?

As a Jew I resent having Christmas forced upon my family by people like you who think you have more rights re religion than I do because you're in the majority. Why am I not surprised that your point of view is chock full of prejudice?

You are right, sir.

But I admit that my prejudice against your kind compelled me to read your post three times before I determined there was no subtle subterfuge therein. See, I am from the deep south, and to me, you people, Yankees fans, are considered untrustworthy until proved otherwise.
 
tryreading said:
We are not, like it or not, a Christian nation. Only a Christian would say the above, which is fine, you are entitled to your opinion. But you are wrong.


When 95% of this country believe in a Christian God we are a Christian nation.......
 
Navy Pride said:
When 95% of this country believe in a Christian God we are a Christian nation.......

I disagree. The majority has nothing to do with it. We are a nation of law. Some very wise and intelligent men determined that long ago, thank God.
 
tryreading said:
I disagree. The majority has nothing to do with it. We are a nation of law. Some very wise and intelligent men determined that long ago, thank God.

The majority has everything to do with it.............No one should in the minority should be persecuted for the religeous beliefs.....That said we are a judo/christian nation...........
 
Navy Pride said:
When 95% of this country believe in a Christian God we are a Christian nation.......

Really? Source for your info?

But wait - then you go on to say we are judo(sic)-Christian nation - so just what percentage do the Jewish constitute if Christians already make up 95% And what percentage does that leave for the rest of us?
 
hendo@citlink.net said:
Really? Source for your info?

But wait - then you go on to say we are judo(sic)-Christian nation - so just what percentage do the Jewish constitute if Christians already make up 95% And what percentage does that leave for the rest of us?

I think the 'majority' crunches the numbers this way:

Judeo-Christian...................95%
Jewish...............................15%
Muslim.................................8%
Other/Hindu/Odinist/Wiccan.....7%

Total................................125% (yeah, that's about right)

Please don't confuse Judeo-Christian with Judo-Christian - "One forgives all, the other kicks ass." Cartman, Southpark-Episode 57
 
hendo@citlink.net said:
Really? Source for your info?

But wait - then you go on to say we are judo(sic)-Christian nation - so just what percentage do the Jewish constitute if Christians already make up 95% And what percentage does that leave for the rest of us?

I am sorry I don't have al link.....I did not even know that was debateable.......Are you saying the vast majority of Americans do not believe in God?:confused:
 
Navy Pride said:
I am sorry I don't have al link.....I did not even know that was debateable.......Are you saying the vast majority of Americans do not believe in God?:confused:

But you are saying 95% of Americans believe in a Christian God. Regardless, the 95% is probably too high in either case.
 
Navy Pride said:
I am sorry I don't have al link.....I did not even know that was debateable.......Are you saying the vast majority of Americans do not believe in God?:confused:
Navy my good man, you're doing the "Cut and Run" again! How many times can one person "Cut and Run" in one day?

You wrote that 95% of America is CHRISTIAN and therefore we are a CHRISTIAN nation.

As a Jew I really resent that thinking. I find it insulting and ignorant. I also find it very UnAmerican since this country was founded on religious freedom. Majority means $hit when it comes to religion in this country. A religion of one has equal rights to being Christian, period.

God has no place in our official government, nowhere, anytime.

Now, this is not to say that anyone who is Christian or whatever doesn't have the absolute right to practice their religion anywhere they want at anytime so long as it does not infringe on someone else's rights. You want to build a 100 foot crucifix on your home? Why not! Want to display whatever religious icon or symbol you like on your front lawn? Go for it! BUT....You want to put up a Christmas Tree or Hannukah Bush on the front lawn of the local public school? Sorry, no can do...

Sorry we're no more a "Christian Nation" than we are a nation of Wickers, or Jews, or Atheists.
 
tryreading said:
But you are saying 95% of Americans believe in a Christian God. Regardless, the 95% is probably too high in either case.

I have heard that figure quoted before at various times........I am surprised you haven't...........Just curious.What would you think the pecentage of people in this country who believe in God?
 
Navy Pride said:
I am sorry I don't have al link.....I did not even know that was debateable.......Are you saying the vast majority of Americans do not believe in God?:confused:

A Harris poll shows 79% believe in God, Gallup poll 86%, ABC poll 95%. I think the number is probably closer to a Gallup/Harris mix, as polls are their business. But this is people who believe in God, not a Christian God.


This survey found that 79% of Americans believe there is a God, and that 66% are absolutely certain this is true. Only 9% do not believe in God, while a further 12% are not sure.

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=408


Overall, the center's survey of surveys confirms that America truly is one nation, under God—or at least Americans say it is. In survey after survey, overwhelming majorities say they believe in God. More than nine in 10 Americans—95 percent—told ABC News polltakers that they believe in God. A Gallup Organization survey for CNN and USA Today last December found much the same thing: Nearly nine in 10—86 percent—said they believed in God, while another 8 percent said they believe in some form of "Universal spirit or higher power."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/wat/archive/wat042400.htm
 
tryreading said:
We are not, like it or not, a Christian nation. Only a Christian would say the above, which is fine, you are entitled to your opinion. But you are wrong.

I am not wrong.Just look around you. Christian thought dominates this nation as well as the nations that 90 percent of the immigrants here came from. it's only logical that this nation is as Christian as Israel is Jewish or Japan is Buddhist. Take a look at what people say be the Muslims, Buddhists or Jews. "God Bless you" or "God Damn you." or "God willing." It's in the language. You don't hear "Allah bless you."

Maybe you (impersonal you) worship money. Take a look on the back of a 100 dollar bill. It says "In God We Trust". You wont find that on a 5000 yen bill or a Moroccan Dinar or on an Israeli Shekel. This is just one EXAMPLE of hundreds you'll find in societies across the world. I am not pumping one religion over another here and that should be evident if one reads my post with an open mind. I am dealing with cultures and religions and how they come together. If you want to go deeper into this just read the works of Margaret Meade and/or Ruth Benedict. And you'll see how religion fits into the scenario I am presenting.

You are right in saying this nation, like other democracies in the world, is a nation of laws. Those laws however a subject to and depend on majority rule. With 85 percent of the nation being Christian it is the obvious majority. This does not mean that minorities are ignored but they must use the legislative process. If you have a county that is predominately non-Christian and they vote down a proposition to place a Christian symbol in a public area they the symbol cannot be placed there. If the county is a majority of Christians their vote rules the day in this case.

One of the biggest complaints of Americans is that lawyers and judges are attempting to legislate laws from the courtroom and the bench. This is one manner for a minority, be it political, religious or racial to approach the problem. But it also causes a fundamental breakdown in the system and ties up the courts. Minority thought be it political or religious or anything else has a right to be heard but not an automatic right to dominate.
 
Navy Pride said:
It has nothing to do with communism.......OK lets use Japan which is mostly Buddist too........

Thought Japan was mostly Shinto? Isn't that why they consider their emperor to be a God?
 
Pacridge said:
Thought Japan was mostly Shinto? Isn't that why they consider their emperor to be a God?

I lived for seven years in Japan and have been married to a Japanese woman who is a Buddhist. She also goes to Shinto shrines. She's got two religions? No three. It was explain to me in this manner. Shinto teaches the Japanese their (divine) origins, Cofucionism teaches them how to act and behave in everyday life and Buddhism explains their eternal soul to them. Of course it's a bit more complicated than that but in a v nutshell that is the theory. They get along perfectly with THREE religions and we can't seem to get it together for one. What does that say?
 
Inuyasha said:
I lived for seven years in Japan and have been married to a Japanese woman who is a Buddhist. She also goes to Shinto shrines. She's got two religions? No three. It was explain to me in this manner. Shinto teaches the Japanese their (divine) origins, Cofucionism teaches them how to act and behave in everyday life and Buddhism explains their eternal soul to them. Of course it's a bit more complicated than that but in a v nutshell that is the theory. They get along perfectly with THREE religions and we can't seem to get it together for one. What does that say?

Interesting, thanks. I was in Yokohama/Yokosuka for six months in 86. I remember there being a very large statue of Buddha on a nearby hill. Knew there was a large % Shinto, pretty sure that's where the emperor as a God comes from.

And yes, interesting they manage to co-exist with three whereas we seem to fight with one. It almost like some people just want to fight rather then try and get along.
 
Navy Pride said:
It has nothing to do with communism.......OK lets use Japan which is mostly Buddist too........
You're right it has nothign to do with communism, China was a bad example.
 
Inuyasha said:
I am not wrong.Just look around you. Christian thought dominates this nation as well as the nations that 90 percent of the immigrants here came from. it's only logical that this nation is as Christian as Israel is Jewish or Japan is Buddhist. Take a look at what people say be the Muslims, Buddhists or Jews. "God Bless you" or "God Damn you." or "God willing." It's in the language. You don't hear "Allah bless you."

Maybe you (impersonal you) worship money. Take a look on the back of a 100 dollar bill. It says "In God We Trust". You wont find that on a 5000 yen bill or a Moroccan Dinar or on an Israeli Shekel. This is just one EXAMPLE of hundreds you'll find in societies across the world. I am not pumping one religion over another here and that should be evident if one reads my post with an open mind. I am dealing with cultures and religions and how they come together. If you want to go deeper into this just read the works of Margaret Meade and/or Ruth Benedict. And you'll see how religion fits into the scenario I am presenting.

You are right in saying this nation, like other democracies in the world, is a nation of laws. Those laws however a subject to and depend on majority rule. With 85 percent of the nation being Christian it is the obvious majority. This does not mean that minorities are ignored but they must use the legislative process. If you have a county that is predominately non-Christian and they vote down a proposition to place a Christian symbol in a public area they the symbol cannot be placed there. If the county is a majority of Christians their vote rules the day in this case.

One of the biggest complaints of Americans is that lawyers and judges are attempting to legislate laws from the courtroom and the bench. This is one manner for a minority, be it political, religious or racial to approach the problem. But it also causes a fundamental breakdown in the system and ties up the courts. Minority thought be it political or religious or anything else has a right to be heard but not an automatic right to dominate.

I say 'God Damn,' but I may say 'Great Ceasar's Ghost,' and I have no belief that there is a Great Caesar's Ghost. I may say fuc_ you, but I don't want to. I say 'thank God' all the time, but it is no more than just an expression. Has nothing to do with belief.

You think your vote should overrule the Constitution? I have no disrespect for the Christian religion, or any other, but I think people who are Christians are weak of faith if they demand public affirmation of their faith.

There is a lawsuit, just filed, over removal of 'In God we Trust' on money. What does God have to do with money? The phrase was a gimmick to instill the trust of the American people.

As far as the lawsuit thing, you contest wrongs in is country by filing suit. In a nation of law, this is the proper recourse. If I am wronged, I will pursue satisfaction in a court of law, and so would you.
 
galenrox said:
Dude, the really sad thing is you actually think this is an argument with merit. Did the ACLU protest you last time you went to church, or prayed, or practiced your religion at all? Tell me, when was the last time that the ACLU made even the slightest effort to prevent you from practicing your religion?
I am a very religious guy, and if I thought the ACLU was attacking my ability to practice my religion I would turn on them in a second.

But I've got a little tidbit of news for you...NOT EVERYONE CELEBRATES CHRISTMAS, IT'S A RELIGIOUS HOLIDAY!!!

I personally would have no problem with christmas in school, but I'm a christian. How would you feel if in your school district they gave 2 weeks off for the birth of Muhammed? Or some celebration of some hippy nature thing for the Pagans? How about Vishnumas or whatever the Hindi celebrate?
I'm pretty damn certain that you'd be upset about it. That's what it's frickin like dude.

I really appreciate your post. You can be Christian, and still respect and protect the Constitution. I am not a Christian, but if the ACLU were trying to attack your ability to worship, I would also turn on them in a second.
 
tryreading said:
IWhat does God have to do with money? The phrase was a gimmick to instill the trust of the American people.

link please
 
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