Attack on Christmas

[Engimo]

Yes, but not believing that something exists and believing that something does not exist are two entirely different things. Not believing something exists is perfectly logical and based in fact, believing something does not exist is based on faith, and thus a religion, in this particular case.

And most atheists prescribe to the former.

Did I say he believed in God?
If you look more closely I said "afterlife". Then again, I could very well be wrong, since my source is the movie "Powder".

Yeah, not the most respectable of sources.

lol, I've been getting that a lot. I think you and I percieve atheism to mean different things. Thus we're in complete agreement except for the definition of the word "atheist".

Like I said before, there are different types of atheists. There are "Strong Atheists" that make the assertive claim that there definitively is no God, and "Weak Atheists" (that compose the majority of atheists) that say that there is no reason to believe in God because of a lack of evidence.

 

[Engimo]

yeah, you very well may be right!

Whee! I convinced someone to change their opinion! Yay for open-mindedness and genuine discussion!

 

[Kelzie]

lol, **** you Kelzie!:2wave:
Gotta come in making me look like an ass!

Alright, so the bible justifies genocide against the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, the Jebusites, and the Amalek!

I know Deuteronomy is Old Testament, which is by FAR much more harsh than the post Jesus bible. I don't know where Samuel is.

Well, its not like it's hard. :mrgreen:

So you can pick and choose what parts of the bible you can follow? Sounds like my kind of religion.

 

[JOHNYJ]

Bill O'Reilly was on the Letterman show the other night. Mister Letterman showed he was a knee jerk liberal . He didn't believe there was a war on Christmas.Mainly it seemed, because he didn't read about it in the NY Times. He hought 60% of what mr.O'Rielly said wasn't true,because.Other people told him so and no he never saw Mr.O'Reilly's show.
The mainstream media supports the war on Christmas and religion in general . By denying its happening they help their side.
Even when Gallop polls show that the American people agree there is a war on Christmas. The Newspapers try to ignore or ridicule the idea.

 

[Engimo]

Bill O'Reilly was on the Letterman show the other night. Mister Letterman showed he was a knee jerk liberal . He didn't believe there was a war on Christmas.Mainly it seemed, because he didn't read about it in the NY Times. He hought 60% of what mr.O'Rielly said wasn't true,because.Other people told him so and no he never saw Mr.O'Reilly's show.
The mainstream media supports the war on Christmas and religion in general . By denying its happening they help their side.
Even when Gallop polls show that the American people agree there is a war on Christmas. The Newspapers try to ignore or ridicule the idea.

Firstly, it's "Gallup". Secondly, you are misinterpreting the poll results entirely (if it is the one that O'Reilly cites). Go ahead, post the poll and the results, I'll show you the flaw in that reasoning. The idea of a "War on Christmas" is a nonsensical red herring.

 

[JOHNYJ]

Dude, I'm all about calling for respect for christians, as you can see by the last several pages of this thread, but the "war on christmas" is just proposterous. It is unjustifiable to get upset because other holidays in the same time period are also being acknowledged.
And just as I point out that fundamentalist secularists drive normal christians to become theocrats, it's ridiculous **** like this on the behalf of the christians that drive normal atheists to become fundamentalist secularists. Do you think people would be so hell bent on removing God from all aspects of our public lives if, when they thought of christians, they thought of kind, respectful, logical, thoughtful people? But instead, when they think of us, they think of a bunch of people who get pissed off when we hear the words "happy holidays" (despite the fact that there are multiple holidays in that time frame).

I know liberals and the PC crowd are not kown for being accurate in their arguments.So I gess its to be expected here. Fact, the pro Christmas crowd do not and have not said to exclude other holidays in this season.In fact Fox TV wished its viewers a Merry Christmas and a Happy Honukah. Something most liberal tv stations did not. Also House Republicans while passing the respect Christmas resoloution offered to pass one for Hanukah and Kwanza.The liberal democrats who had been opposing the Christmas resolotion,never took them up on it.

 

[Engimo]

I know liberals and the PC crowd are not kown for being accurate in their arguments.So I gess its to be expected here. Fact, the pro Christmas crowd do not and have not said to exclude other holidays in this season.In fact Fox TV wished its viewers a Merry Christmas and a Happy Honukah. Something most liberal tv stations did not. Also House Republicans while passing the respect Christmas resoloution offered to pass one for Hanukah and Kwanza.The liberal democrats who had been opposing the Christmas resolotion,never took them up on it.

Well, not only is a resolution not legally binding, the whole thing was entirely useless and a silly waste of time. The only people opposing the thing were those who thought it was insulting to the House to be wasting time with stupid things.

 

[Stace]

I know liberals and the PC crowd are not kown for being accurate in their arguments.

If you're going to make claims like that, have something to back it up.

So I gess its to be expected here. Fact, the pro Christmas crowd do not and have not said to exclude other holidays in this season.In fact Fox TV wished its viewers a Merry Christmas and a Happy Honukah. Something most liberal tv stations did not. Also House Republicans while passing the respect Christmas resoloution offered to pass one for Hanukah and Kwanza.The liberal democrats who had been opposing the Christmas resolotion,never took them up on it.

No one said that anyone wanted to exclude other holidays, and that's the point. "Happy Holidays" is all about INCLUDING everyone. I mean, whoop de doo, Fox TV said Merry Christmas and Happy Chanukah, guess what? A Happy Holidays would have sufficed, because merely saying those two is excluding their viewers that don't celebrate those particular holidays, or maybe don't celebrate holidays at all during the winter season.

The War On Christmas is something that people like John Gibson and Pat Robertson made up to try and say that people hate Christians. Nothing more, nothing less. If you've read Gibson's book about the subject, you'd realize how utterly ridiculous the man is.

 

[shuamort]

In fact Fox TV wished its viewers a Merry Christmas and a Happy Honukah. .

Great! Did they mention Ramadan, Kwanzaa, and the Winter Solstice as well? Or did they exclude those religions?

 

[JOHNYJ]

Well, not only is a resolution not legally binding, the whole thing was entirely useless and a silly waste of time. The only people opposing the thing were those who thought it was insulting to the House to be wasting time with stupid things.

Congressmen worrying about wasteing the Houses time.Now thats a new idea
The dermocratic leadership of the house organized opposition to the resoloution.They used jewish and black representitives only to speak. After their vigorous attacks on the resoloution.When it came time to actualy vote against it, they folded like a cheap suit.

 

[Engimo]

Congressmen worrying about wasteing the Houses time.Now thats a new idea
The dermocratic leadership of the house organized opposition to the resoloution.They used jewish and black representitives only to speak. After their vigorous attacks on the resoloution.When it came time to actualy vote against it, they folded like a cheap suit.

Really? Because last time I checked, the person that was the most outspoken on it (to the point of writing a parody of "The Night Before Christmas" and performing it for the House) is a Catholic.

John Dingell.

Twas the week before Christmas and all through the House
No bills were passed ‘bout which Fox News could grouse;
Tax cuts for the wealthy were passed with great cheer,
So vacations in St. Barts soon would be near;

Katrina kids were nestled all snug in motel beds,
While visions of school and home danced in their heads;
In Iraq our soldiers needed supplies and a plan,
Plus nuclear weapons were being built in Iran;

Gas prices shot up, consumer confidence fell;
Americans feared we were on a fast track to…well…
Wait--- we need a distraction--- something divisive and wily;
A fabrication straight from the mouth of O’Reilly

We can pretend that Christmas is under attack
Hold a vote to save it--- then pat ourselves on the back;
Silent Night, First Noel, Away in the Manger
Wake up Congress, they’re in no danger!

This time of year we see Christmas every where we go,
From churches, to homes, to schools, and yes…even Costco;
What we have is an attempt to divide and destroy,
When this is the season to unite us with joy

At Christmas time we’re taught to unite,
We don’t need a made-up reason to fight
So on O’Reilly, on Hannity, on Coulter, and those right wing blogs;
You should just sit back, relax…have a few egg nogs!

‘Tis the holiday season: enjoy it a pinch
With all our real problems, do we honestly need another Grinch?

So to my friends and my colleagues I say with delight,
A merry Christmas to all,
and to Bill O’Reilly…Happy Holidays.

The objection was to the fact that the resolution was a giant, stupid waste of time.

 

[The Real McCoy]

Great! Did they mention Ramadan, Kwanzaa, and the Winter Solstice as well? Or did they exclude those religions?

Actually they did include Ramadan. Not sure about Kwanzaa, the Winter Solstice or any bull$hit holidays.

 

[Stace]

Actually they did include Ramadan. Not sure about Kwanzaa, the Winter Solstice or any bull$hit holidays.

and what do you consider to be a bullshit holiday? Because I can assure you that it's not bullshit to the people that celebrate it, nor is it any less important than Christmas, Chanukah, etc.

 

[Inuyasha]

With regard to this thread as well as the one on atheism my opinion is simply that religion or the lack there of is private and personal. If a person doesn't want to celebrate Christmas or believe in God that's fine. If they do that's fine as well, as long as they don't push their ideas on others.

To me religion is just not about God and his/her/its existence or Christ or the Virgin Mary. It is also in great part social and cultural. In immigrant countries you can find, for example, people of Italian background celebrating the feast day of Saint Francis, or others of Spanish descent privately celebrating the patron of Spain, Our lady of the Pillar of Saragossa. How about the Irish (and many non.Irish and even non-Catholics) who celebrate Saint Patrick's day? Are these thing so offensive? It appears not because they are celebrated in the US, Argentina, Australia etc every year and no one gets up in arms about it. For some it is their only contact with their ancestral lands or with their larger past. Would you deny them that? Not me. It is that diversity that makes immigrant nations what they are.

Often the entire life of a people is infused with their religious beliefs, both conscious and unconscious. Right for forms of greeting friends and neighbors in the street to eating habits and language. and even more. I hope people continue to observe their beliefs that differ from mine and that I can see them and learn about different peoples and how they live.

What is not so good is evangelist from any school of thought pushing their ideas, either religious or political down the throats of others as those folks are prone to do. Fir example, I come from a staunch Mediterranean Catholic back ground and I understand that. I would be much use to anyone by converting to say, Southern Baptist. Culturally and socially it makes no sense. Now for others who feel the need to convert fine but not me. The good in all religions (and there is plenty of good) is the same it's just expressed differently. look within and you'll find most of the answers you seek. Here is a web site that deals with that on social, cultural and religious levels. you'll see all of them are so similar as to be one. Take a moment to look at it.

HTTP://HTTP.unmanly.net/Skin.HTML

 

[hipsterdufus]

Here's a perfect example of O'Reilly lying , even when he knows it's a lie.

O'Reilly claimed that part of the "War on Christmas" was a town changing the words to Silent Night.

OK - here's the context. The song in question is actually IN THE PLAY. It is sung by a tree who thinks that he's not worthy, and the composer changed the words to Silent Night to "Cold In The Night" The play ends with the audience singing We Wish You A Merry Christmas! Now not only does O'Reilly know this, he continues to lie about it after the fact, hoping that know one will care.

The Little Tree's Christmas Gift (Overture)
Buy Our Trees! (The Tree Men's Song)
Please Make A Deal For Me (Tree Buyers' Song #1)
Please Make A Deal For Me (Tree Buyers' Song #2)
Cold In the Night (The Little Tree's Song)
O Little Tree With Slender Branch (Family's Song)
Here We Come A-Caroling / O Christmas Tree (Carolers' Songs)
Underscore Tree Music
Christmas Tree Song
Deck The Halls / We Wish You A Merry Christmas (Audience Participation Carols)

http://delrich.home.mindspring.com/tree.html#music

 

[tryreading]

Here's a perfect example of O'Reilly lying , even when he knows it's a lie.

O'Reilly claimed that part of the "War on Christmas" was a town changing the words to Silent Night.

OK - here's the context. The song in question is actually IN THE PLAY. It is sung by a tree who thinks that he's not worthy, and the composer changed the words to Silent Night to "Cold In The Night" The play ends with the audience singing We Wish You A Merry Christmas! Now not only does O'Reilly know this, he continues to lie about it after the fact, hoping that know one will care.



http://delrich.home.mindspring.com/tree.html#music

This is another example why nobody should get all of their information from talk hosts. If you listen to O'Reilly or Hannity you are always hearing only one point of view, a very partisan one. This goes for those who listen only to more liberal hosts too. If you only listen to one 'side' you don't know when they are lying.

 

[The Real McCoy]

and what do you consider to be a bullshit holiday? Because I can assure you that it's not bullshit to the people that celebrate it, nor is it any less important than Christmas, Chanukah, etc.

Don't know any off the top of my head...

Say the KKK decides to establish a holiday celebrating the anniversary of the assassination of MLK Jr. (If they haven't already) THAT would be a bullshit holiday no matter how important it is to them.

 

[Stace]

Don't know any off the top of my head...

Say the KKK decides to establish a holiday celebrating the anniversary of the assassination of MLK Jr. (If they haven't already) THAT would be a bullshit holiday no matter how important it is to them.

Alright, you got me there.

 

[The Real McCoy]

Alright, you got me there.

Not even Fox News would celebrate that one.

 

[Inuyasha]

In Texas they could have "Dragging Day", Where you tie someone to the back of a pickup truck and drag them to death because of their race, religion, sexual orientation or political views or all four of the above.

 

[The Real McCoy]

In Texas they could have "Dragging Day", Where you tie someone to the back of a pickup truck and drag them to death because of their race, religion, sexual orientation or political views or all four of the above.

A dark day for the black, wiccan, communist homosexuals in Texas.

 

[Inuyasha]

man, have you been up all night?

 

[Vandeervecken]

To call Hitler's policies "right wing" is also inaccurate. Through his control over commerce he was much closer to socialist than anything else.

But it's alright, I know you're a smart guy, I get your drift.

The problem for you being those of us who know reality in political science, and that is that fascism was and is an extreme right wing philosophy, and that nazzism is a form a fascism have offered multiple reputable refernce sources for our claims. You have offered none. You cannot. No reputable source will call the Nazi party anything but extreme right wing, for that is what it was.

National Socialism is to Socilism what a People's Republic is to a Republic. Now, call me names some more and repeat your claim Hitler was a leftist, and of course offer nothing to back it up.

Here are a couple more sources for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm

 

[Inuyasha]

The problem for you being those of us who know reality in political science, and that is that fascism was and is an extreme right wing philosophy, and that nazzism is a form a fascism have offered multiple reputable refernce sources for our claims. You have offered none. You cannot. No reputable source will call the Nazi party anything but extreme right wing, for that is what it was.

National Socialism is to Socilism what a People's Republic is to a Republic. Now, call me names some more and repeat your claim Hitler was a leftist, and of course offer nothing to back it up.

Here are a couple more sources for you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm

Galenfox: it can't be more clear than Van has stated here. He along with the links provided are conclusive. No textbook on political science anywhere associates Hitler or Fascism in general with the left; always with the right. The only time I have ever seen it called a "leftist" movement is on these Internet boards and usually as I said by those on the right who wish to distance themselves from an ideology and political system designed and fostered by the far right. The word "Socialism" in the phrase "National Socialism is a ruse and must not be taken literally.

 

[Vandeervecken]

Galenfox: it can't be more clear than Van has stated here. He along with the links provided are conclusive. No textbook on political science anywhere associates Hitler or Fascism in general with the left; always with the right. The only time I have ever seen it called a "leftist" movement is on these Internet boards and usually as I said by those on the right who wish to distance themselves from an ideology and political system designed and fostered by the far right. The word "Socialism" in the phrase "National Socialism is a ruse and must not be taken literally.

Facts are indeed stubborn things. Want to bet they get ignored yet again though?