Atlanta Education System caught in Massive Cheating Scandal

[Your Star]

^^^ Yep, this saga has been ongoing for years. I remember a few years back when every school in Fulton(I think it was) country was going to lose it's accreditation, the school system in Atlanta is utterly inept.

 

[imagep]

Is it the entire Atlanta area school system that has issues, or is it just the immediate Atlanta "proper" school system?

I know that most of the outlieing areas around Atlanta have some great schools, like all of Cobb County and the suburbian parts of Fulton County.

If it is just the "inner city" schools that are cheating and/or are terrible, there might be some socio-economic reasons for poor performance, much more than terrible teachers or administrators. I am not trying to be a racist here, only making a personal observation, but inner city Atlanta is predominatly black, the suburbs are predominately white.

I am not defending teachers or administrators who engaged in cheating, but it is very possible that not even the best teachers/adminstrators in American could do anything with those kids.

My wife has an aunt who spend a year teaching 3rd grade in a very bad urban school. She said that she took the job because it sounded like an opportunity to prove that those kids could do well. At first she loved it, she said that those kids "heads were so empty that they soaked up everything that was presented to them". But the end of the year, she felt very differently. She told me that many of the kids would leave her classroom one day having "learned" new skills, and return the next day with none of that knowlege still existing. She felt like their homelife was so bad that every time they left the school they left everything that they had learned. She also suspected that quite a few of them were "crack babies" and simply didn't have the capability to store knowlege.

 

[Goshin]

As I recall, the guy who wrote Freakonomics caught NY teachers doing the same thing.


Across Atlanta Public Schools, staff worked feverishly in secret to transform testing failures into successes.

Teachers and principals erased and corrected mistakes on students’ answer sheets.

Area superintendents silenced whistle-blowers and rewarded subordinates who met academic goals by any means possible.

.......a public union monopoly conspired together to create an enterprise dedicated to making themselves look better at the expense of the public and those they were supposed to be serving? I'm shocked!

Well of course they did.... got to get those Federal funds after all.

Nice to see the Federal board of education/etc is doing so much good....

 

[Boo Radley]

Well of course they did.... got to get those Federal funds after all.

Nice to see the Federal board of education/etc is doing so much good....

When you attach dollars to testing, does it really shock anyone that someone would cheat?

 

[cpwill]

CP, you're working too hard to blame this on the union. This is more the fault of high stakes testing, that really doesn't favor education or children. Remember, I told you years ago cheating would be the result. :coffeepap

yes. it's the standards fault that they cheat.


just like it's money's fault that people steal.

 

[VanceMack]

I agree, standardized testing has hurt education.

I dont think the fault is with standardized testing (as in testing to ensure a specific education standard is being met). The problem is that schools (teachers and administrators) have decided all that counts is the free cheese so they cheat to "meet the standard" by teaching to the test instead of educating the students so that they can meet the standard. If the focus is on education, the material required is already being taught.

 

[Boo Radley]

I dont think the fault is with standardized testing (as in testing to ensure a specific education standard is being met). The problem is that schools (teachers and administrators) have decided all that counts is the free cheese so they cheat to "meet the standard" by teaching to the test instead of educating the students so that they can meet the standard. If the focus is on education, the material required is already being taught.

There are a lot of problems. Bubble test tell us very little for example. What they do tell us is more about the students than about the teaching or the schools. And if students have no stake in the testing, as is the case with NCLB, they tell us next to nothing at all. And then you put money attached to a test that students have no stake in, . . . well, . . . you're screaming to all to please cheat, Please, please cheat.

 

[Boo Radley]

yes. it's the standards fault that they cheat.


just like it's money's fault that people steal.

No, read the above. How you try to frame it is just inaccurate.

What I will agree is that it doesn't excuse the cheating. They should be prosecuted. Instead they should have gone to work making sure everyone understood how useless, wrong and stupid high stakes testing as devised was. But let's not pretend this is all that surprising.

 

[VanceMack]

There are a lot of problems. Bubble test tell us very little for example. What they do tell us is more about the students than about the teaching or the schools. And if students have no stake in the testing, as is the case with NCLB, they tell us next to nothing at all. And then you put money attached to a test that students have no stake in, . . . well, . . . you're screaming to all to please cheat, Please, please cheat.

Thats why they should throw out NCLB and kick every little **** out of high school that isnt there to learn. They should dedicate their resources to TEACHING. Not social engineering, not some adolescent romper room. Teachers need to be concerned with teaching Johnny to read, write, do math, science, history and other academic pursuits. Period. They should kill the fed dept of education.

 

[Boo Radley]

Thats why they should throw out NCLB and kick every little **** out of high school that isnt there to learn. They should dedicate their resources to TEACHING. Not social engineering, not some adolescent romper room. Teachers need to be concerned with teaching Johnny to read, write, do math, science, history and other academic pursuits. Period. They should kill the fed dept of education.

There's good support for doing away with NCLB or at least making significant changes to it. However, there is next to no support to kicking large number of students out of school. Not sure that is social engineering. But I do know a democracy needs as many educated folks as possible.

And I see little evidence teachers on the whole are not adequatedly concerned with teaching Johnny. Nor would I saying being charged with teaching Johnny does away with their responsibilities as citizens or concern for their job security.

 

[VanceMack]

There's good support for doing away with NCLB or at least making significant changes to it. However, there is next to no support to kicking large number of students out of school. Not sure that is social engineering. But I do know a democracy needs as many educated folks as possible.

And I see little evidence teachers on the whole are not adequatedly concerned with teaching Johnny. Nor would I saying being charged with teaching Johnny does away with their responsibilities as citizens or concern for their job security.

I dont care that there is no support. I recognize that a lartge number of people see the school system as their social engineering laboratory and the best hope at institutionalizing generations of children. All that matters is that basic reality that the school systems across the country are FAILING miserably at being SCHOOLS. Its time for that to be remedied.

 

[Boo Radley]

I dont care that there is no support. I recognize that a lartge number of people see the school system as their social engineering laboratory and the best hope at institutionalizing generations of children. All that matters is that basic reality that the school systems across the country are FAILING miserably at being SCHOOLS. Its time for that to be remedied.

I don't get the entire social negerineering meme here, and perhaps you shold explain it. But I will say people seeing something silly, no matter how many, doesn't tell us if something is actually happening.

And I would argue schools are nto failing, students are. I was just listening to a conference today where it was pointed out that students who went to school with the effort to learned, did learn. The system did give them the education and skills they needed. It wasn't the schools, but instead students simply not putting forth the effort. When next I'm at work I'll link that conference for you, as I saved it on my computer there.

 

[VanceMack]

I don't get the entire social negerineering meme here, and perhaps you shold explain it. But I will say people seeing something silly, no matter how many, doesn't tell us if something is actually happening.

And I would argue schools are nto failing, students are. I was just listening to a conference today where it was pointed out that students who went to school with the effort to learned, did learn. The system did give them the education and skills they needed. It wasn't the schools, but instead students simply not putting forth the effort. When next I'm at work I'll link that conference for you, as I saved it on my computer there.

Schools should not be an institution of promoting social agendas. They are. We dont need any special months. We need to TEACH. Schools should demand students treat each other with respect and if they cant manage it they should be gone. There is no greater life lesson to be learned than to treat others with respect. THey dont need a special class for that. Modle it. Expect it. Then TEACH education subjects. The schools are failing. Across the country. Blame students, blame families, blame teachers. Blame them all. However if the schools went back to being institutions of learning and kicked those people out that didnt deserve to be there, the schools would be more successful and I suspect with higher expectation, more students would achieve better results.

 

[Boo Radley]

Schools should not be an institution of promoting social agendas. They are. We dont need any special months. We need to TEACH. Schools should demand students treat each other with respect and if they cant manage it they should be gone. There is no greater life lesson to be learned than to treat others with respect. THey dont need a special class for that. Modle it. Expect it. Then TEACH education subjects. The schools are failing. Across the country. Blame students, blame families, blame teachers. Blame them all. However if the schools went back to being institutions of learning and kicked those people out that didnt deserve to be there, the schools would be more successful and I suspect with higher expectation, more students would achieve better results.

Agian you make a claim to which there is no evidence. And no, you can't go with I knew a teacher once who said this, or we caught three teachers on tape saying this. Those would be too small a sample. You need something large enough to support your claim.

Now the respect issue is a clear problem, and part of the reason we have trouble keeping young teachers (this includes respect from people who demend them). And as I noted, schools are not failing. Many students come out prepared, attending the same classes those who are not prepared attended. Expalin the difference if not the student?

 

[VanceMack]

Agian you make a claim to which there is no evidence. And no, you can't go with I knew a teacher once who said this, or we caught three teachers on tape saying this. Those would be too small a sample. You need something large enough to support your claim.

Now the respect issue is a clear problem, and part of the reason we have trouble keeping young teachers (this includes respect from people who demend them). And as I noted, schools are not failing. Many students come out prepared, attending the same classes those who are not prepared attended. Expalin the difference if not the student?

I need to prove that the school system is failing? The evidence is there across the country. Atlanta is only a small piece of a very ****ty problem. Schools should go back to TEACHING.

 

[Boo Radley]

I need to prove that the school system is failing? The evidence is there across the country. Atlanta is only a small piece of a very ****ty problem. Schools should go back to TEACHING.

Again, explain why some come out of those schools with a fine education, prepared for college? Whay is it impossible that students play a role in their own learning? Are you really goign to argue they are mindless vessels without no self will?

 

[VanceMack]

Again, explain why some come out of those schools with a fine education, prepared for college? Whay is it impossible that students play a role in their own learning? Are you really goign to argue they are mindless vessels without no self will?

Who said student s didnt play a role? Or parents? Do you just insist on ignoring **** that has already been posted due to your incessant need to both create arguments that arent there and then be right about your non-existent arguments? This ATL scandal is about teachers. Schools are failing across the country. As IU said several posts ago BLAME THE STUDENTS...BLAME THE PARENTS. But the schools are failing for a VARIETY of reasons and it all needs to change.

 

[justabubba]

Who said student s didnt play a role? Or parents? Do you just insist on ignoring **** that has already been posted due to your incessant need to both create arguments that arent there and then be right about your non-existent arguments? This ATL scandal is about teachers. Schools are failing across the country. As IU said several posts ago BLAME THE STUDENTS...BLAME THE PARENTS. But the schools are failing for a VARIETY of reasons and it all needs to change.

tell us how you would propose to change the parents

for extra credit
tell us how you would propose to change the students

 

[cpwill]

that is outside the realm of political policy, and so we can only focus on that which we can change. government can offer incentives, but it cannot really force change in either the parents or the students - it can only force change in it's failing schools.

 

[VanceMack]

tell us how you would propose to change the parents

for extra credit
tell us how you would propose to change the students

Cant. Wouldnt. Ive made it as plain and obvious as I can. Id change the schools and kick those that refuse to become healthy parts of the process out. Surely youve seen that a time or two at least.

 

[justabubba]

Cant. Wouldnt. Ive made it as plain and obvious as I can. Id change the schools and kick those that refuse to become healthy parts of the process out. Surely youve seen that a time or two at least.

then your proposal is to give up on those who come into the schools with weak learning skills
only teach those who are easy to educate


one of our member's signature reads something to the effect "if you think education is expensive, try ignorance"
it appears you want to accept that very expensive alternative

 

[1Perry]

tell us how you would propose to change the parents

This isn't going to solve the problem but to start someone with some influence needs to start the conversation that it's wrong to believe that doing well in school is anything but positive.

 

[justabubba]

This isn't going to solve the problem but to start someone with some influence needs to start the conversation that it's wrong to believe that doing well in school is anything but positive.

i don't disagree with you ... but i do disagree with vance mack
it tends to be easy to identify problem
the difficult part is identifying a solution
and even more harder is being able to successfully implement it

in his case, he recognizes a root of the problem and chooses to walk away without proposing a solution, much less implementing one

 

[1Perry]

i don't disagree with you ... but i do disagree with vance mack
it tends to be easy to identify problem
the difficult part is identifying a solution
and even more harder is being able to successfully implement it

in his case, he recognizes a root of the problem and chooses to walk away without proposing a solution, much less implementing one

Sure. I don't believe money is going to change the situation. We can pay teachers $150,000 a year but if the student doesn't believe an education is important there isn't a huge difference that a teacher can make.

I don't put the blame on teachers as in the big picture. Of course there are bad teachers. There are far more bad students and parents.

 

[VanceMack]

then your proposal is to give up on those who come into the schools with weak learning skills
only teach those who are easy to educate


one of our member's signature reads something to the effect "if you think education is expensive, try ignorance"
it appears you want to accept that very expensive alternative

how long do you want to continue pretending you can save people? How long do we continue to pollute the school system lowering levels of success to the lowest common denominator? How long do you want to continue to make excuses? How long do you want to continue to corrupt the process which inhibits those that truly WANT to succeed?

The price of ignorance and failure is on the individuals and the people that choose to continue to enable failure. Worse...you facilitate it.