• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Atheism on the Rise

Alex

DP Veteran
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
2,963
Reaction score
855
Location
Milwaukee, WI
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
The Graduate Center, a doctorate-granting institution for The City University of New York, conducted a survey that categorized the religious identification of 50,281 random American households. It was put together in 2001, as a follow up to a similar survey done in 1990. The primary question was, “What is your religion, if any?” Then, when appropriate, the same was asked about the spouse/partner. The interviewer did not provide a list of suggested answers; respondents were expected to answer on their own. The results were very interesting. Christians made up 76.5% of the interviewees. This was a significant decrease from the 86.2% in 1990. The category of Other Religious Groups remained somewhat steady at 3.7% compared to 3.3%. This sect consisted of, but was not limited to, Jews, Muslims, Wiccans, and Pagans. Probably the most surprising outcome was people who answered, “No religion.” This response was combined with Atheist, Agnostic, Humanist, and Secular. That population has more than doubled since 1990 from 14.3 million to 29.5 million. It is the fastest growing faction in the survey with 14.1% of Americans claiming it, compared to 8.2% last decade.

It is important to note that The Graduate Center survey is probably the most reliable source of religious and non-religious identification. The United States Census Bureau is prohibited from asking any mandatory questions based on religious affiliation. An investigator is referred to other organizations that are allowed to do these types of surveys. Recommended centers are The Glenmary Research Center, The Hartford Institute for Religious Research at Hartford Seminary, and The American Religion Data Archive. The figures offered by The Glenmary Research Center, and The Hartford Institute for Religious Research, were calculated from questionnaires sent to congregations only--atheists were not questioned--so this was meant to determine religious affiliation only. The American Religion Data Archive is a database of surveys. They were conducted, and submitted, by any given person; their accuracy is not verified before being placed into the database. The Graduate Center is not affiliated with any religious organizations, and their members conducted the survey. It was the only one found that represents both atheists and theists.

Should Christianity be concerned?

http://www.gc.cuny.edu/faculty/research_briefs/aris/key_findings.htm
 
Last edited:

edb19

Member
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
122
Reaction score
0
Location
Sylvania, Ohio
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
alex said:

Simply put - no.

For a more detailed answer - God will grow His church. He sure isn't wringing His hands because more folks are proclaiming to be atheists or are following other religions. Yes, we are called to share the news of the Gospel - but God is the one who converts hearts. He chooses whom He chooses.
 

Shamgar

Banned
Joined
Jun 18, 2005
Messages
313
Reaction score
0
alex said:
Should Christianity be concerned?
There are fewer Christians around then you think. Just because someone calls themselves Chrstian doesn't make them Christian. In fact according to the Scriptures the many "Christians" are not entering the kingdom of heaven . . . only the few practicing Christian are entering the kingdom . . . .



 

Dogger807

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 24, 2005
Messages
1,007
Reaction score
232
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Knowledge and education have always been the antithesis's of religion which is based on misinformation and easy answers.

This is easy to see just by looking at how the percentage of atheist per capita goes up as you climb the scale of education and IQ with the NAS being polled at 92% atheist.

That not to say there aren't any smart religious people or dumb atheists.

However information has become so easily obtained and impossible for churches to censor that opposing arguments are accessible at the touch of a button. This leads to more critical thinking for those who wish to learn. Since our children have a tendency to be smarter and more comfortable with technology than the generation before the ratio of intelligence will rise and with it the overall percentage of non believers.

the one problem with this is as the overall average intelligence of religious people will drop and they will become more aggressive in nature. This bodes unwell for future generations.
 
S

sebastiansdreams

dogger807 said:
Knowledge and education have always been the antithesis's of religion which is based on misinformation and easy answers.
You ever set through a seminary course? WHy, if knowledge and education are the antithesis's of religion would there be multiple schools completely devoted to the study of the faith?

This is easy to see just by looking at how the percentage of atheist per capita goes up as you climb the scale of education and IQ with the NAS being polled at 92% atheist.
But if the message of the education is "God doesn't exist" then it would make sense that more "educated" people would adopt atheism. Also, on a personal note, as the intellegence of a person rises, more times than not, their ego follows. It could be suggested that because educated people are more arrogant they are less likely to accept that they are themselves not at the top of the chain. No one who believes themselves so important can bow down to someone else, even if it is God.

However information has become so easily obtained and impossible for churches to censor that opposing arguments are accessible at the touch of a button. This leads to more critical thinking for those who wish to learn. Since our children have a tendency to be smarter and more comfortable with technology than the generation before the ratio of intelligence will rise and with it the overall percentage of non believers.
And the Bible itself predicts a time when the last person accepts Christ. This is all foretold. It's a sad state, but I think God knew it was inevitable.

the one problem with this is as the overall average intelligence of religious people will drop and they will become more aggressive in nature. This bodes unwell for future generations.
But I think you're missing the line between intellect and wisdom. I think that intellectuals will continue to rise in number and will continue to move away from God because again, the more importance you put in yourself the less likely you are to suggest you need anyone's help. But, someone can be very wise and still be a Christian, because they can accept that their knowledge has come from God. That number will, predictably go to zero, but not in the near future.
 

Dogger807

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 24, 2005
Messages
1,007
Reaction score
232
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
sebastiansdreams said:
You ever set through a seminary course? WHy, if knowledge and education are the antithesis's of religion would there be multiple schools completely devoted to the study of the faith?



But if the message of the education is "God doesn't exist" then it would make sense that more "educated" people would adopt atheism. Also, on a personal note, as the intellegence of a person rises, more times than not, their ego follows. It could be suggested that because educated people are more arrogant they are less likely to accept that they are themselves not at the top of the chain. No one who believes themselves so important can bow down to someone else, even if it is God.



And the Bible itself predicts a time when the last person accepts Christ. This is all foretold. It's a sad state, but I think God knew it was inevitable.



But I think you're missing the line between intellect and wisdom. I think that intellectuals will continue to rise in number and will continue to move away from God because again, the more importance you put in yourself the less likely you are to suggest you need anyone's help. But, someone can be very wise and still be a Christian, because they can accept that their knowledge has come from God. That number will, predictably go to zero, but not in the near future.
I would hypothesizes that these institutes of faith biased learning are biased toward religion and as such train their disciples to believe in religion. More of a stop gap measure by organized religion to retain more intelligent people to their view.

The pseudoscience creationism is a good example of the churches trying to match the creditability that science earns.

The more unbiased information one gets (or at least information sources biased from ever side.) the less feasible any religion looks. As you know christianity isn't the statistically highest population of the world. It is however most predominate in our country. Don't you think it's an act of extreme arrogance to conceder it right and all others wrong? Scientology has a very small follower base, don't you think it's an act of extreme arrogance to conceder it right and all others wrong?

All religions are the same.. from voodoo to christianity.. from wiccan to Buddhism.... You have to accept them on faith. No matter what pseudo proof they offer it's all faith.
 
S

sebastiansdreams

dogger807 said:
I would hypothesizes that these institutes of faith biased learning are biased toward religion and as such train their disciples to believe in religion. More of a stop gap measure by organized religion to retain more intelligent people to their view.
Not really. I went to a baptist college of the arts which taught general education material. The professors were willing to help you understand where Christinaity fit into the mix, but they were not withholding any information.

The pseudoscience creationism is a good example of the churches trying to match the creditability that science earns.
Creationism is a very flawed theory that very few true Christians believe in. Anyone that has any knowledge of the Hebrew scriptures knows the meaning of the word yohm.

The more unbiased information one gets (or at least information sources biased from ever side.) the less feasible any religion looks.
Religion as a whole, possibly. Christianity, not true. I am right now attending a very liberal school where the philosophy department pretty much assumes every student ought to be an aethist and has no problem teaching that to its students. And yet I still hold my faith, because no one has yet given me a better or more logical or satisfying way of life (in fact this is the reason I found Christianity to be so practical and fullfilling).

As you know christianity isn't the statistically highest population of the world. It is however most predominate in our country. Don't you think it's an act of extreme arrogance to conceder it right and all others wrong? Scientology has a very small follower base, don't you think it's an act of extreme arrogance to conceder it right and all others wrong?
Don't you think that it takes a great bit of arrogance to suggest that you are right in suggesting there is no God? At least the majority of philosophies in this matter are incorrect, if not all of them. I have found my philosophy to be fullfilling, truthful, uplifting, joyful, and meaningful. I have experienced God. My life has changed for an incredible betterment because of Him. I know that I am not wrong, because I have been wrong before in this matter.

All religions are the same.. from voodoo to christianity.. from wiccan to Buddhism.... You have to accept them on faith. No matter what pseudo proof they offer it's all faith.
Yes and no. Yes, you must have the initial faith in God. You must seek Him, and if you seek Him, you will find Him. But when you experience Him, you can't deny His existance.
 

Dogger807

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 24, 2005
Messages
1,007
Reaction score
232
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
sebastiansdreams said:
Yes and no. Yes, you must have the initial faith in God. You must seek Him, and if you seek Him, you will find Him. But when you experience Him, you can't deny His existance.
Now that's a self fulfilling prophecy. If you believe you'll find him/and or her then you'll delude yourself into believing you have.
 
S

sebastiansdreams

dogger807 said:
Now that's a self fulfilling prophecy. If you believe you'll find him/and or her then you'll delude yourself into believing you have.
But how do you expect to find anything without looking for it? You can't find your keys unless you make the effort to over turn some of the clothes in your room every so often. It only makes sense that you aren't going to find something if you don't look for it.
 

Dogger807

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 24, 2005
Messages
1,007
Reaction score
232
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
sebastiansdreams said:
Don't you think that it takes a great bit of arrogance to suggest that you are right in suggesting there is no God? At least the majority of philosophies in this matter are incorrect, if not all of them. I have found my philosophy to be fullfilling, truthful, uplifting, joyful, and meaningful. I have experienced God. My life has changed for an incredible betterment because of Him. I know that I am not wrong, because I have been wrong before in this matter.
yes there is arrogance involved in being able to stand up for your views , but it's mild in comparision to claiming your view has the one and only true conection with the fundimental truth. Atheism is a statement of "I don't know the answear, and from what I've been able to determine neither do you."

Yes and no. Yes, you must have the initial faith in God. You must seek Him, and if you seek Him, you will find Him. But when you experience Him, you can't deny His existance.
sebastiansdreams said:
But how do you expect to find anything without looking for it? You can't find your keys unless you make the effort to over turn some of the clothes in your room every so often. It only makes sense that you aren't going to find something if you don't look for it.
Sigh the old, it comes down to faith. I've seen the same thing from every religion I've ever studied, one god or many. I think it is one of the biggest proofs that it's all self delusion.
 

Dogger807

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 24, 2005
Messages
1,007
Reaction score
232
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
sebastiansdreams said:
Don't you think that it takes a great bit of arrogance to suggest that you are right in suggesting there is no God? At least the majority of philosophies in this matter are incorrect, if not all of them. I have found my philosophy to be fullfilling, truthful, uplifting, joyful, and meaningful. I have experienced God. My life has changed for an incredible betterment because of Him. I know that I am not wrong, because I have been wrong before in this matter.
yes there is arrogance involved in being able to stand up for your views , but it's mild in comparision to claiming your view has the one and only true conection with the fundimental truth. Atheism is a statement of "I don't know the answear, and from what I've been able to determine neither do you."

Yes and no. Yes, you must have the initial faith in God. You must seek Him, and if you seek Him, you will find Him. But when you experience Him, you can't deny His existance.
sebastiansdreams said:
But how do you expect to find anything without looking for it? You can't find your keys unless you make the effort to over turn some of the clothes in your room every so often. It only makes sense that you aren't going to find something if you don't look for it.
Sigh the old, it comes down to faith. I've seen the same thing from every religion I've ever studied, one god or many. I think it is one of the biggest proofs that it's all self delusion.
 

Alex

DP Veteran
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
2,963
Reaction score
855
Location
Milwaukee, WI
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
I believe that there are many reasons for the increase in Athiests. Education being one of them. Evolution is more logical and based on evidence. The post written here earlier that more educated people tend to not believe in a god(s) makes sense to me. Also I believe that technology has made more people realize that they are not alone in their lack of beliefs. The internet has allowed people to come across organizations and other people that they have things in common with. It is no longer a bad thing to say a person does not believe because they now know that they are not alone. Will this become a continuing trend?
 
S

sebastiansdreams

dogger807 said:
yes there is arrogance involved in being able to stand up for your views , but it's mild in comparision to claiming your view has the one and only true conection with the fundimental truth. Atheism is a statement of "I don't know the answear, and from what I've been able to determine neither do you."
No, to the contrary that is an agnostic stance. You are suggesting that there is absolutely no God out there. Therefore you presume that to be true, without any more proof than I have for believing. If you were agnostic, I could at least understand that stance, but to choose atheism is just as bold.

Sigh the old, it comes down to faith. I've seen the same thing from every religion I've ever studied, one god or many. I think it is one of the biggest proofs that it's all self delusion.
But don't you realize we are a world that lives on faith. You cannot love without faith. You cannot trust without faith. To suggest that a life without faith is a more sane life is ridiculous. And to suggest that belief in Christinaity is a blilnd faith is ridiculous too. It is faith, but it is a faith on something that is visible and tangible.
 

Dogger807

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 24, 2005
Messages
1,007
Reaction score
232
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
sebastiansdreams said:
No, to the contrary that is an agnostic stance. You are suggesting that there is absolutely no God out there. Therefore you presume that to be true, without any more proof than I have for believing. If you were agnostic, I could at least understand that stance, but to choose atheism is just as bold.
No .. you are incorrect here. Atheism is literally without theism. We do not believe in any religious system and make no qualms about not knowing all the answers. That is a theist's viewpoint.

On the other hand agnostics waver between no religion and maybe theist's are right.

A person who believes it's possible that either one or a group of beings could have created the universe , but animately believes no one on earth has gotten it right yet is by definition an atheist. Your mistake is you think it's either god or nothing. We don't see it that way. Their are tons of religions out their and the ones with judo-christian god are just a percentage.

Stop trying to prove the existence of any god by pointing to the lack of answers. The first step of wisdom is admitting what you don't know.

Sigh .. there we go again. arguing on definitions.

Have you studied the history of your religion. You do realize it's made up of a lot of previous religions and tales. It's an empty hope many cling to because they are afraid of not knowing. To believe in something just to believe is against my very nature. Best case scenario is you have a god that started something by talking to a few people early on, but he never carried through.

The god of the bible isn't perfect.. he displays may flaws including wishing to be thought of as perfect.

Your arguments are no more or less convincing than one arguing for Buddhism or wiccan or how to get into Valhalla.
 

Alex

DP Veteran
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
2,963
Reaction score
855
Location
Milwaukee, WI
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
sebastiansdreams said:
No, to the contrary that is an agnostic stance. You are suggesting that there is absolutely no God out there. Therefore you presume that to be true, without any more proof than I have for believing. If you were agnostic, I could at least understand that stance, but to choose atheism is just as bold.



But don't you realize we are a world that lives on faith. You cannot love without faith. You cannot trust without faith. To suggest that a life without faith is a more sane life is ridiculous. And to suggest that belief in Christinaity is a blilnd faith is ridiculous too. It is faith, but it is a faith on something that is visible and tangible.
How is Christian faith something visible and tangible? I know of nothing visible or tangible that proves Christianity or makes faith in it stronger.
 
S

sebastiansdreams

dogger807 said:
No .. you are incorrect here. Atheism is literally without theism. We do not believe in any religious system and make no qualms about not knowing all the answers. That is a theist's viewpoint.
Then you do admit that there is the possibility of their being a God, but that you don't know one way or another?

On the other hand agnostics waver between no religion and maybe theist's are right.
Again, I have more respect for that, because to me at least that shows that they do not practice the hypocracy of saying that a person of faith is foolish because they can't prove its existance whereas they believe it does not exist and cannot prove this either.

A person who believes it's possible that either one or a group of beings could have created the universe , but animately believes no one on earth has gotten it right yet is by definition an atheist. Your mistake is you think it's either god or nothing. We don't see it that way. Their are tons of religions out their and the ones with judo-christian god are just a percentage.
You are the first atheist I have ever met that took that stance. Most others claim themselves agnostic for holding that belief. An atheist, in every case I have ever known has always confidently said there is absolutely no God.

Stop trying to prove the existence of any god by pointing to the lack of answers. The first step of wisdom is admitting what you don't know.
I'm not trying to prove He exists. I know you haven't the faith to see it so there is no convincing you. But, I have experienced God, and know that He exists. I needn't prove God's existance to someone that would not look to see it.

Sigh .. there we go again. arguing on definitions.
It is debate. And I am an English major, this is what I do my friend.

Have you studied the history of your religion. You do realize it's made up of a lot of previous religions and tales. It's an empty hope many cling to because they are afraid of not knowing. To believe in something just to believe is against my very nature. Best case scenario is you have a god that started something by talking to a few people early on, but he never carried through.
You're kidding? You mean it's all a lie? Well, then I give up on it... I'm an atheist now...

Come on. Of course I know the history of religion. I know what man has come to understand about God. I know that there has always been an oral tradition of relationship between man and God. Sometimes these tales went in wayward directions into things that made absolutely no sense, but there has been a tradion of man meeting God from then to now. You suggest it's an empty hope, and at very worst, you're right. At very worst I have lived my life feeling fulfilled, happy, joyful, helpful, loved, loving, faithful, gracious... the list is a mile long. I know I am not wrong about this. But even if I were wrong about it, my life is a hundred times better now that I have God in my heart than it was without Him. I have life more abundantly, and that was the promise He gave us as Christians. What more could I possibly want from life that to be completely fulfilled and though I'm serving the purpose I was born for? If there is a heaven, I would love to see you there, if there is not, then as Christ said, the kingdom is already here for me, and I live being blessed.

The god of the bible isn't perfect.. he displays may flaws including wishing to be thought of as perfect.
What are curve are you rating perfection on? You see, to be like God to me, is to be perfect. But what would an imperfect action be if it was committed by God?

Your arguments are no more or less convincing than one arguing for Buddhism or wiccan or how to get into Valhalla.
Buddhism could not fulfill me, I tried it. Wiccan deals in things that are dark and no one of the wiccan belief every claims to have fulfillment and eternal joy. I don't care that my arguments are no more convincing to you... you see I don't live my life to convince you of this. I live my life this way because I have already been convinced and I am better for it. Only you can choose to believe or not to believe based on faith. There is nothing more I can show you than that that is already around you. God has already told us that if we seek Him we will find Him, so all you need to do is honestly seek Him. But that's a you thing, not a me thing.
 
S

sebastiansdreams

alex said:
How is Christian faith something visible and tangible? I know of nothing visible or tangible that proves Christianity or makes faith in it stronger.
Firstly, for me it has been seeing my life and the lives of those around me change because of God. It has been seeing joy in the destitude, and faith in the hopeless. It is a matter of seeing things through brand new eyes. But you have to be willing to open your eyes to this. You do have to step forward in faith before you are flooded with proof, but it is there if you seek it.
 

Alex

DP Veteran
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
2,963
Reaction score
855
Location
Milwaukee, WI
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
sebastiansdreams said:
Firstly, for me it has been seeing my life and the lives of those around me change because of God. It has been seeing joy in the destitude, and faith in the hopeless. It is a matter of seeing things through brand new eyes. But you have to be willing to open your eyes to this. You do have to step forward in faith before you are flooded with proof, but it is there if you seek it.
I understand that this is good in respect to a faith in Christianity, but I hope you do not accept this as proof that a god(s) exist. Faith in a god(s) is blind faith. I know that Christianity exists, I cannot deny that because I see it everyday. But Christianity and a god are two separate things.

Also, I am very curious about your avatar picture. Do you believe there is no Chrsitianity in the entertainment business? Start a thread about it, I am very interested in hearing your opinion and your reasonings.
 
Last edited:
S

sebastiansdreams

alex said:
I understand that this is good in respect to a faith in Christianity, but I hope you do not accept this as proof that a god(s) exist.
No, it is the experiences and my relationsip with God that has proven His existance.

Faith in a god(s) is blind faith.
The first step is a blind one, the rest reveals itself in floods.

Also, I am very curious about your avatar picture. Do you believe there is no Chrsitianity in the entertainment business? Start a thread about it, I am very interested in hearing your opinion and your reasonings.
I think there is very little Christianity in Hollywood. There are many people who would suggest that they are Christian or have Christian philosophies, but I see very little the work of Christ through cinema.
 

Dogger807

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 24, 2005
Messages
1,007
Reaction score
232
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
sebastiansdreams said:
You are the first atheist I have ever met that took that stance. Most others claim themselves agnostic for holding that belief. An atheist, in every case I have ever known has always confidently said there is absolutely no God.
actually this is quiet common. It's theists who want to define us as ones who don't believe in (god , allah, thor, or insert desiered deity here.)

I'm not trying to prove He exists. I know you haven't the faith to see it so there is no convincing you. But, I have experienced God, and know that He exists. I needn't prove God's existance to someone that would not look to see it.
Oh.. on what basis do you believe I never looked?

It is debate. And I am an English major, this is what I do my friend.
ok I concede , arguing definitions is a valid if annoying debate tactic.

You're kidding? You mean it's all a lie? Well, then I give up on it... I'm an atheist now...

Come on. Of course I know the history of religion. I know what man has come to understand about God. I know that there has always been an oral tradition of relationship between man and God. Sometimes these tales went in wayward directions into things that made absolutely no sense, but there has been a tradion of man meeting God from then to now. You suggest it's an empty hope, and at very worst, you're right. At very worst I have lived my life feeling fulfilled, happy, joyful, helpful, loved, loving, faithful, gracious... the list is a mile long. I know I am not wrong about this. But even if I were wrong about it, my life is a hundred times better now that I have God in my heart than it was without Him. I have life more abundantly, and that was the promise He gave us as Christians. What more could I possibly want from life that to be completely fulfilled and though I'm serving the purpose I was born for? If there is a heaven, I would love to see you there, if there is not, then as Christ said, the kingdom is already here for me, and I live being blessed.
and I can respect your view. I'm not gonna agree with it, but I can respect it. Most of my problems with the self delusions of religion comes from the faithful pushing their values on others.


Buddhism could not fulfill me, I tried it. Wiccan deals in things that are dark and no one of the wiccan belief every claims to have fulfillment and eternal joy. I don't care that my arguments are no more convincing to you... you see I don't live my life to convince you of this. I live my life this way because I have already been convinced and I am better for it. Only you can choose to believe or not to believe based on faith. There is nothing more I can show you than that that is already around you. God has already told us that if we seek Him we will find Him, so all you need to do is honestly seek Him. But that's a you thing, not a me thing.
Yet these religions are no less viable than christianity.

Maybe it's just our hope that the creator of the universe is good, by any definition of the word.
Maybe he is a sadistic thug with a lot of power and like to, figuratively speaking, pull the wings off bug. Thus evil and ignorance.

There are a lot of possibilities to consider not just "my god or nothing."
 

StillPhil

Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Messages
90
Reaction score
17
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
sebastiansdreams said:
Buddhism could not fulfill me, I tried it. Wiccan deals in things that are dark and no one of the wiccan belief every claims to have fulfillment and eternal joy. I don't care that my arguments are no more convincing to you... you see I don't live my life to convince you of this. I live my life this way because I have already been convinced and I am better for it. Only you can choose to believe or not to believe based on faith. There is nothing more I can show you than that that is already around you. God has already told us that if we seek Him we will find Him, so all you need to do is honestly seek Him. But that's a you thing, not a me thing.
It's quite a shame that Buddhism did nothing for you. It's actually an incredible philosophy. I apply it to my life all the time. Hence the name StillPhil. I must take issue with your comment on Wicca. Who the heck are you to say that no one has found fulfillment or eternal joy with Wicca? There's nothing dark about Wicca! That comment totally discredits anything you say from now on, because you make blunt statements about things you know nothing about. And the :Bolded: statement----have you shown us anything yet? I look around me and find physical elements that have physical explanations. In fact, both Buddhism and Wicca adhere much to this philosophy. They are constantly searching for truth. REAL truth. Not this hokey-pokey truth that can only be proven in your imagination. I wonder if there is a God, truly. I find it hard to believe that we came from nothing, but that doesn't mean I'm going to become a Zombie and trudge off following a large group simply because of their numbers.

sebastiansdreams said:
I think there is very little Christianity in Hollywood. There are many people who would suggest that they are Christian or have Christian philosophies, but I see very little the work of Christ through cinema.
YOU THINK there is very little Christianity in Hollywood? So what? First of all, like I said above---you've already discredited yourself by your lack of knowledge with issues you yourself try to discredit. Yes Sebastian, there is a line between knowledge and wisdom. It looks like this: knowledge-wisdom. Only Religious hubris like yours makes the line look like this knowledge + faith = wisdom. Faith---that which we imagine to be true. Despite years and years of actual research with FACTS and questions, more research, more FACTS, new questions, more research, etc....people like you are constantly trying to convince people like me to BELIEVE something that cannot possibly be believed without the presence of FACTS! So don't sit there in your tower and say that you're not trying to convince people of your faith, then judge Hollywood (or anyone else for that matter) on YOUR assumption that there are very few Christians or practice Christian philosophies. That's none of your business. They don't have to be Christians. They don't have to. And yes you ARE trying to convince people to believe like you---by stating "There are many people who would suggest that they are Christian or have Christian philosophies, but I see very little the work of Christ through cinema." This statement is saying that they should be.

Examples of Christianity in Cinema: (through metaphor or outright saying it)
Lord of the Rings Trilogy - 3 huge blockbuster movies
The Matrix Trilogy - 3 huge blockbuster movies (Christian metaphors)
THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST
Harry Potter (Thematic Good vs Evil - A Christian philosophy)
Last Temptation of Christ
Jesus of Nazareth
(The upcoming) Chronicles of Narnia:the Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe
...to name a few.

*Now I'm sure I'll catch some flack for Harry Potter. If you're going to attempt to refute that Harry Potter has a Christian theme of Good vs Evil, give some good solid reasons for your response.

I'm sure this list could grow and grow and grow if everyone would just add something to the list.
 
Last edited:

Gandhi>Bush

Non-Passive Pascifist
DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 20, 2005
Messages
2,742
Reaction score
0
Location
Mesquite, Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
StillPhil said:
*Now I'm sure I'll catch some flack for Harry Potter. If you're going to attempt to refute that Harry Potter has a Christian theme of Good vs Evil, give some good solid reasons for your response.
So every movie with a Good vs Evil theme is a christian movie? How bout we list teenage mutant ninja turtles?
 

StillPhil

Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Messages
90
Reaction score
17
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Gandhi>Bush said:
So every movie with a Good vs Evil theme is a christian movie? How bout we list teenage mutant ninja turtles?
Yes let's! Exactly my point G>B.
If someone makes a claim that there is little examples of Christianity in Hollywood, it's obvious they are wrong. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is another perfect example of the good vs evil (which is a Christian theme) in a Hollywood film.

Perfect G>B. Any others?
 

mikhail

blond bombshell
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Messages
4,729
Reaction score
763
Location
uk
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Well it depends also how they are surveyed what if you dont agree with organised religion but believe in god or a creator?

While you may show a colleration between iq and atheism its still quite logical to believe some kind of higher being/force created the universe. Who says one day far far in the future humans wont posses the technology to create something such as the universe.
 

edb19

Member
Joined
May 31, 2005
Messages
122
Reaction score
0
Location
Sylvania, Ohio
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
mikhail said:
Who says one day far far in the future humans wont posses the technology to create something such as the universe.
God is sitting in heaven when a scientist prays to Him. "God, we don't need
You anymore. Science has finally figured out a way to
create life out of nothing. In other words, we can now do what You did in
the beginning."

"Oh, is that so? Tell Me..." replies God.

"Well," says the scientist, "we can take dirt and form it into the likeness
of You and breathe life into it, thus, creating man."

"Well, that's very interesting...show Me."

So the scientist bends down to the earth and starts to mold the soil into
the shape of a man.

"No, no, no..." interrupts God, "Get your own dirt."
 
Top Bottom