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ATF seizes 1,000 guns in East Mesa raid

danarhea

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PHOENIX (AP) - Federal agents have raided a home in unincorporated East Mesa and reportedly pulled 1,000 guns from the residence.

IMHO, I don't care if the guy had a million guns at his home. If he was committing no crime with them, then he has every right to have them.

So, a quick question for you: Which is more dangerous, a guy with 1,000 guns, who has committed no crime, or a government that wants to take them away, without any evidence that a crime has been committed?

Article is here.
 

soccerboy22

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Well the article says it was just rifles, pistols, and shotguns. I see nothing wrong with that. I am curious to hear on why they were taken.
 

Jetboogieman

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You are quite correct, constitutionally and all that.

The only danger I can think of is the risk of theft? Having 1000 guns + Ammo stolen doesn't sound good at all. Besides that I dunno

but would not comment later on the nature of the investigation.

The articles pretty brief, I would like to know more, guess wait and see.
 

Deuce

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Well, that certainly is a large number of firearms. I, too, wonder what prompted the raid. I think assuming that it was for mere possession of them is jumping to conclusions.
 

Harry Guerrilla

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IMHO, I don't care if the guy had a million guns at his home. If he was committing no crime with them, then he has every right to have them.

So, a quick question for you: Which is more dangerous, a guy with 1,000 guns, who has committed no crime, or a government that wants to take them away, without any evidence that a crime has been committed?

Article is here.

Here is a link to a more complete story.

ATF seizes guns in raid of East Mesa home

The guy was an FFL holder, it expired in 06.
He was still selling guns, although those guns aren't really meant or usually used for criminal purposes.
All he did wrong was not renew a sellers license, which in my opinion is bull**** because it doesn't do anything to stop crime.
 

MaggieD

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Seems pretty obvious to me. His address was listed as the address of several businesses selling firearms. Was he licensed to sell firearms? Does he follow the law regarding firearms sales in the state of Arizona? Is it legal to KEEP 1,000 guns in a residential home?

Medical marijuana is legal in California. I'm guessing they'd probably arrest someone who had a thousand pounds of it in their basement....even if they did have script.

Why always assume government conspiracy? And what makes you think no crime has been committed?
 

tacomancer

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IMHO, I don't care if the guy had a million guns at his home. If he was committing no crime with them, then he has every right to have them.

So, a quick question for you: Which is more dangerous, a guy with 1,000 guns, who has committed no crime, or a government that wants to take them away, without any evidence that a crime has been committed?

Article is here.

Technically if he had those guns without them being properly registered, they were illegal.
 

Hoplite

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If he was committing no crime with them, then he has every right to have them.
If someone is building bombs, but hasn't committed a crime with them, should he be allowed to have them?

Once you reach a certain point, you cant really make an argument that these are for personal use and it sounds much more like the guy is stocking up for an army.
 

Harry Guerrilla

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Seems pretty obvious to me. His address was listed as the address of several businesses selling firearms. Was he licensed to sell firearms? Does he follow the law regarding firearms sales in the state of Arizona? Is it legal to KEEP 1,000 guns in a residential home?

Medical marijuana is legal in California. I'm guessing they'd probably arrest someone who had a thousand pounds of it in their basement....even if they did have script.

Why always assume government conspiracy? And what makes you think no crime has been committed?

It's not necessarily illegal to sell guns without a license.
Depends on the circumstances.
 
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soccerboy22

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After reading the fuller story it does just seem like it was because he didn't renew his license in four years. Hell even the ATF officer didn't think the guns for the most part were for criminal purposes.
 

TheNextEra

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Not a lot of information to go by on the article. It is troubling that the ATF, knowing that such a raid would garner media attention, has not commented or put out information as to why this raid happened.

EDIT: Just saw the more complete article which explains more. Thanks Harry.
 

Harry Guerrilla

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Not a lot of information to go by on the article. It is troubling that the ATF, knowing that such a raid would garner media attention, has not commented or put out information as to why this raid happened.

EDIT: Just saw the more complete article which explains more. Thanks Harry.

Most of these type of stores, traveling with gun shows and internet sales, are run by old guys and their wife.

The FFL process can be clunky and annoying to follow.
If I'm not mistaken, you don't really renew your license but have to reapply all over again, going through all the same crap the first time.

A simple conformation background check to make sure you aren't a criminal should suffice for an FFL renewal.
 

liblady

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Here is a link to a more complete story.

ATF seizes guns in raid of East Mesa home

The guy was an FFL holder, it expired in 06.
He was still selling guns, although those guns aren't really meant or usually used for criminal purposes.
All he did wrong was not renew a sellers license, which in my opinion is bull**** because it doesn't do anything to stop crime.

as the story states, he also sold guns to undercover agents with out of state id, which is illegal, and the story also states that some guns were tied to illegal activity. so no, he did more than overlook renewing a license for 4 years.
 

Harry Guerrilla

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as the story states, he also sold guns to undercover agents with out of state id, which is illegal, and the story also states that some guns were tied to illegal activity. so no, he did more than overlook renewing a license for 4 years.

I saw that too but that isn't completely true.
Selling handguns to people with an out of state DL is illegal, not for long guns though.

I used to work for a store that was included in the lawsuit that Mayor Bloomberg started.
Some of the guns that our store sold were used in crimes in New York city.
We were a fully licensed FFL dealer.
It happens but we always complied with the law, including the time we reported a man buying 10 of the same gun.
Which was later found out that he was trying to smuggle them to Haiti.
 

liblady

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I saw that too but that isn't completely true.
Selling handguns to people with an out of state DL is illegal, not for long guns though.

I used to work for a store that was included in the lawsuit that Mayor Bloomberg started.
Some of the guns that our store sold were used in crimes in New York city.
We were a fully licensed FFL dealer.
It happens but we always complied with the law, including the time we reported a man buying 10 of the same gun.
Which was later found out that he was trying to smuggle them to Haiti.

as they mentioned it as illegal, i have to assume they weren't long guns. what is the issue with not renewing a license for 4 years? wouldn't that have pre-empted this?
 

Harry Guerrilla

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as they mentioned it as illegal, i have to assume they weren't long guns. what is the issue with not renewing a license for 4 years? wouldn't that have pre-empted this?

It's not always illegal.

Like right now, I could sell all of my guns to a random person on the street.
It wouldn't be illegal at all, I could even turn a profit no problems.

The license is mainly a business license and not really a sellers license.
To be in the business of selling firearms, you have to have a license and fixed location.
There is also a bound book requirement and NCIS check.
The story doesn't mention those but if he kept those records, he really wasn't trying to be criminal.

If the license is anything like the C&R 03 license and the CCW permit, you have to completely refill the forms, get fingerprinted again and go through all the other hoops in order to be a fully licensed dealer.
It can take several months.
To me, it seems like a way to harass people, more than to ensure safety.
 

liblady

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It's not always illegal.

Like right now, I could sell all of my guns to a random person on the street.
It wouldn't be illegal at all, I could even turn a profit no problems.

The license is mainly a business license and not really a sellers license.
To be in the business of selling firearms, you have to have a license and fixed location.
There is also a bound book requirement and NCIS check.
The story doesn't mention those but if he kept those records, he really wasn't trying to be criminal.

If the license is anything like the C&R 03 license and the CCW permit, you have to completely refill the forms, get fingerprinted again and go through all the other hoops in order to be a fully licensed dealer.
It can take several months.
To me, it seems like a way to harass people, more than to ensure safety.

i wasn't assuming he was a criminal, but it seems kinda silly not to renew your seller's license just becasue it's a bit inconvenient.
 

jujuman13

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Seems pretty obvious to me. His address was listed as the address of several businesses selling firearms. Was he licensed to sell firearms? Does he follow the law regarding firearms sales in the state of Arizona? Is it legal to KEEP 1,000 guns in a residential home?

Medical marijuana is legal in California. I'm guessing they'd probably arrest someone who had a thousand pounds of it in their basement....even if they did have script.

Why always assume government conspiracy? And what makes you think no crime has been committed?

What makes you think a crime has been committed?
 

Hoplite

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What makes you think a crime has been committed?
Again, there's a reason that building bombs is illegal.

Stockpiling weapons is illegal because a stockpile of weapons is used, generally, for purposes that tend to make law enforcement twitchy.
 

MaggieD

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@ JuJuman -- I was responding to the original post. To me, the post implied this was an illegal seizure. My post pointed out there could be many reasons for the raid. The article raised more questions than it answered.
 

Goshin

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2nd Ammendments Thumpers coming in 3... 2... 1...



Sorry I'm late, had to work all day. :mrgreen:


Rant! RAVE!! Guns Good! ATF bad!!!


Happy now? :mrgreen:
 
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