At what exact moment is it Not okay to kill a child?

[Republic Now!]

forcing people to be responsible is to freedom as forcing people to say smart things is to.......take a guess

Some weird intelligence fascism that requires everyone to say smart things?

 

[Bob Blaylock]

It's never ok to kill a child, it's not something I'd do, but it should be permissible at the stage when the child is least socially valuable.

Doublethink:

To know and not to know, to be conscious of complete truthfulness while telling carefully constructed lies, to hold simultaneously two opinions which cancelled out, knowing them to be contradictory and believing in both of them, to use logic against logic, to repudiate morality while laying claim to it, to believe that democracy was impossible and that the Party was the guardian of democracy, to forget, whatever it was necessary to forget, then to draw it back into memory again at the moment when it was needed, and then promptly to forget it again, and above all, to apply the same process to the process itself — that was the ultimate subtlety; consciously to induce unconsciousness, and then, once again, to become unconscious of the act of hypnosis you had just performed. Even to understand the word “doublethink” involved the use of doublethink.

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The power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them… To tell deliberate lies while genuinely believing in them, to forget any fact that has become inconvenient, and then, when it becomes necessary again, to draw it back from oblivion for just as long as it is needed, to deny the existence of objective reality and all the while to take account of the reality which one denies — all this is indispensably necessary. Even in using the word doublethink it is necessary to exercise doublethink. For by using the word one admits that one is tampering with reality; by a fresh act of doublethink one erases this knowledge; and so on indefinitely, with the lie always one leap ahead of the truth.​

—George Orwell, 1984 —​

I wonder if Orwell was familiar with the cliché about “speaking with a forked tongue”, which amounts to a simpler concept of what he was describing as “doublethink”.

 

[Medusa]

some children who werent aborted can never develop empathy for the others

 

[spud_meister]

Doublethink:

I understand empathy is a foreign concept to conservatives, and that allowing someone to do something you wouldn't do isn't in your nature, but you should try it some time.

 

[sangha]

Some weird intelligence fascism that requires everyone to say smart things?

You're warm

It's certainly fascistic

 

[Occam's Razor]

You didn't use past-tense.

But okay, what wars have we drafted for commercial interests?

All of them. Stop sidetracking. The issue is when does life cease to be precious. Stay on topic. I say it can be shown that life is cheap. That was the point, not just of war... if you get stuck on that... not my problem.

If you want to start a thread on that subject, I'd be happy to join you in that debate.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

I understand empathy is a foreign concept to conservatives, and that allowing someone to do something you wouldn't do isn't in your nature, but you should try it some time.

Most of us do not think that it is ever OK to kill a child, nor should it ever be permissible. In fact, to claim that something can be “not OK” and at the same time be “permissible” is a contradiction—an exercise in doublethink.

In any event, what we are discussing here isn't something that can be rationally argued to be a “victimless crime”, such as drug abuse, sexual immorality, gambling, or whatever; we're talking about willfully and needlessly killing an innocent human being. It takes a tremendous lack of empathy to think that such an act should ever be “permissible”.

 

[Republic Now!]

All of them. Stop sidetracking. The issue is when does life cease to be precious. Stay on topic. I say it can be shown that life is cheap. That was the point, not just of war... if you get stuck on that... not my problem.

If you want to start a thread on that subject, I'd be happy to join you in that debate.

Then why the hell did you bring it up? Don't act like I was the one that was off-topic.

 

[molten_dragon]

A what month, week, hour, second should you not murder the child?

20 weeks gestation.

 

[Republic Now!]

You're warm

It's certainly fascistic

Ah, I got it. A form of intellectual fascism in which if people don't say smart things the entire system would crumble.

Right, thanks. I should have thought harder about the relationship between responsibility and freedom.

 

[spud_meister]

Most of us do not think that it is ever OK to kill a child, nor should it ever be permissible. In fact, to claim that something can be “not OK” and at the same time be “permissible” is a contradiction—an exercise in doublethink.

Nope. I don't think the Mormons are ok, but I think their existence is permissible. Do you seek to ban everything you don't agree with?

In any event, what we are discussing here isn't something that can be rationally argued to be a “victimless crime”, such as drug abuse, sexual immorality, gambling, or whatever; we're talking about willfully and needlessly killing an innocent human being. It takes a tremendous lack of empathy to think that such an act should ever be “permissible”.

Empathy is seeing it from another's perspective, a 12 week innocent human being doesn't have a perspective, so I tend to lend more credence to the perspective of the mother.

 

[Ikari]

And we all know that a woman with an unplanned pregnancy can have an abortion. That's no surprise either

Indeed, the courts have said as much. But it doesn't mean that I must like it. Human life is human life and in all cases barring rape, a choice is made a and a dice rolled. We must be cognisant of the consequences of our actions. Only then may we make reasoned ones.

 

[Ikari]

Only for as long as the law supports choice

Science bears the measured truth of nature. You should not turn away from it.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Nope. I don't think the Mormons are ok, but I think their existence is permissible. Do you seek to ban everything you don't agree with?

Now, you're just playing a silly semantic game.

It's OK to hold beliefs and opinions with which I do not agree, therefore, it is permissible. That I may not agree with someone else's belief doe not make that belief “not OK”.

It is never OK to needlessly kill an innocent child, therefore, it should never be permissible to do so.

 

[sangha]

Ah, I got it. A form of intellectual fascism in which if people don't say smart things the entire system would crumble.

Right, thanks. I should have thought harder about the relationship between responsibility and freedom.

No, that's not it.

Forcing people to be responsible is to freedom as forcing people to say smart things is to....free speech

 

[sangha]

Nope. I don't think the Mormons are ok, but I think their existence is permissible.

Which is why I won't answer the OP's question

It matters not whether it is "OK". What matters to me is "Should abortion be legal?" and my answer is "Yes"

 

[sangha]

Indeed, the courts have said as much. But it doesn't mean that I must like it. Human life is human life and in all cases barring rape, a choice is made a and a dice rolled. We must be cognisant of the consequences of our actions. Only then may we make reasoned ones.

You are free to hate abortion as much as you despise instant coffee. It's your choice, and I'm very pro-choice.

And not all human life is the same, and we are all cognizant that abortion is an option for woman with unwanted pregnancies.

 

[sangha]

Science bears the measured truth of nature. You should not turn away from it.

I haven't turned away from science, nor the methods of birth control it has made available to those who choose to avail themselves of it.

 

[Occam's Razor]

Then why the hell did you bring it up? Don't act like I was the one that was off-topic.

TO SUPPORT MY CONTENTION THAT LIFE IS PRECIOUS AFTER BIRTH AS WELL, YET NO CONCERN FOR ANYONE BUT THE UNBORN. Christian nation my ass! Commercial interests are always at the root of war. Bankers, military industrial, energy resource, resources in general...

 

[Ikari]

You are free to hate abortion as much as you despise instant coffee. It's your choice, and I'm very pro-choice.

And not all human life is the same, and we are all cognizant that abortion is an option for woman with unwanted pregnancies.

I do hate instant coffee, it's crap. And at base, all humans are human.

 

[Ikari]

I haven't turned away from science, nor the methods of birth control it has made available to those who choose to avail themselves of it.

Birth control is a very good idea. Drastically reduces probabilities. Not to zero, mind you, but exceptionally low.

 

[sangha]

I do hate instant coffee, it's crap. And at base, all humans are human.

We should ban them !! :wink:

 

[sangha]

Birth control is a very good idea. Drastically reduces probabilities. Not to zero, mind you, but exceptionally low.

Did you know that nearly half of all women who have abortions use birth control?

 

[Ikari]

We should ban them !! :wink:

Humans or instant coffee?

 

[sangha]

Humans or instant coffee?

Yes...