At the time the 2cd Amendment was written

[Exquisitor]

That is mighty big of you, but the ability of government to regulate arms, of any kind, is already prohibited. Or are you not able to grasp the meaning of "shall not be infringed?"

How so possibly, when the Second Amendment it self uses the word "regulated?"

 

[Exquisitor]

That is mighty big of you, but the ability of government to regulate arms, of any kind, is already prohibited. Or are you not able to grasp the meaning of "shall not be infringed?"

Not only does it say, "regulated," it says, "well regulated."

 

[Glitch]

Not only does it say, "regulated," it says, "well regulated."

Why am I not surprised that you are incapable of comprehending what you read? "Well regulated" pertains specifically to the militia, not arms.

 

[Glitch]

Not only does it say, "regulated," it says, "well regulated."

As long as you refuse to learn some very basic English you will just continue embarrassing yourself by demonstrating your complete and utter lack of English comprehension. Get an education.

 

[Exquisitor]

Why am I not surprised that you are incapable of comprehending what you read? "Well regulated" pertains specifically to the militia, not arms.

As long as you refuse to learn some very basic English you will just continue embarrassing yourself by demonstrating your complete and utter lack of English comprehension. Get an education.

You are bias, that is all.

The Resonant Mind knows we must balance, so gun rights activists must hold their position or be over-run by a party that would take away guns which I tell you as a Liberal would be very bad.

I tell you for sure, Thomas Jefferson was very careful to put, "well regulated militia," in there before saying the right shall not be infringed.

What is the difference between regulate and infringe?

 

[GummyVitamins]

The second amendment says keep and bear arms... Not keep and bear muskets. This argument is ridiculous.

 

[Glitch]

You are bias, that is all.

The Resonant Mind knows we must balance, so gun rights activists must hold their position or be over-run by a party that would take away guns which I tell you as a Liberal would be very bad.

I tell you for sure, Thomas Jefferson was very careful to put, "well regulated militia," in there before saying the right shall not be infringed.

What is the difference between regulate and infringe?

Thomas Jefferson didn't write the Second Amendment. George Mason, Patrick Henry, and James Madison wrote it originally.

The prefatory clause does not expand or limit the operative clause, and therefore has no effect on the operative clause. Militia membership is not a requirement to keep and bear arms. Even the Supreme Court acknowledged this in Heller. The only reason the prefatory clause was included in the first place was to describe the purpose of the amendment. The operative clause describes the individual right, and specifically prohibits government from infringing against that individual right.

 

[Exquisitor]

Thomas Jefferson didn't write the Second Amendment. George Mason, Patrick Henry, and James Madison wrote it originally.

The prefatory clause does not expand or limit the operative clause, and therefore has no effect on the operative clause. Militia membership is not a requirement to keep and bear arms. Even the Supreme Court acknowledged this in Heller. The only reason the prefatory clause was included in the first place was to describe the purpose of the amendment. The operative clause describes the individual right, and specifically prohibits government from infringing against that individual right.

Infringe from Latin; to break or crush.

As in taxing the church means the power to destroy it.

None of my proposed regulations breaks, crushes or destroys arm bearing in the United States, but I do believe in a more liberal interpretation of the Second Amendment than Heller and of my ability to argue before the Court.

I tell you, if I was President, and it was my bill that was being argued, I'd be down there listening to their gavel instead of mine.

 

[Utility Man]

......outcome if the shooters were using muzzleloaders ?

 

[Exquisitor]

Thomas Jefferson didn't write the Second Amendment. George Mason, Patrick Henry, and James Madison wrote it originally.

The prefatory clause does not expand or limit the operative clause, and therefore has no effect on the operative clause. Militia membership is not a requirement to keep and bear arms. Even the Supreme Court acknowledged this in Heller. The only reason the prefatory clause was included in the first place was to describe the purpose of the amendment. The operative clause describes the individual right, and specifically prohibits government from infringing against that individual right.

You don't have to belong to a Militia to own a gun, but if you own a gun, guess what,... you are the Militia.

So this Militia must be regulated, although I agree with you, this is not Heller.

You don't have to belong to my Militia, but you must show up for training to keep your gun buyer's permit.

I'd have to pack the court and overturn Heller.

You'd like me, vote Exquisitor; vote Azapizzazz.

 

[Exquisitor]

Thomas Jefferson didn't write the Second Amendment. George Mason, Patrick Henry, and James Madison wrote it originally.

The prefatory clause does not expand or limit the operative clause, and therefore has no effect on the operative clause. Militia membership is not a requirement to keep and bear arms. Even the Supreme Court acknowledged this in Heller. The only reason the prefatory clause was included in the first place was to describe the purpose of the amendment. The operative clause describes the individual right, and specifically prohibits government from infringing against that individual right.

I would further argue that my program does not infringe, but nurtures gun ownership certifying high school students of their responsibilities.

Students should be trained to report suspicious guns and loose talk.

You got to treat a gun like a gun.

Don't break the plain of my body with that barrel.

 

[Glitch]

Infringe from Latin; to break or crush.

As in taxing the church means the power to destroy it.

None of my proposed regulations breaks, crushes or destroys arm bearing in the United States, but I do believe in a more liberal interpretation of the Second Amendment than Heller and of my ability to argue before the Court.

I tell you, if I was President, and it was my bill that was being argued, I'd be down there listening to their gavel instead of mine.

All of your proposed regulations infringe on the Second Amendment. Even just the thought of regulating the Second Amendment is an infringement. Government has absolutely no authority to regulate or otherwise impose any restrictions or limitations on the individual right to keep and bear arms.

If you were President you wouldn't have a bill. Only Congress enacts bills into law, not Presidents. Nor do Presidents have any say in Supreme Court decisions either way. I seriously doubt your ability to argue anything before the court considering your demonstrated lack of basic civics education.

 

[Glitch]

You don't have to belong to a Militia to own a gun, but if you own a gun, guess what,... you are the Militia.

Incorrect. I own multiple firearms, and I haven't been part of any militia in more than 20 years. The maximum age for all militias in the US, federal and State, is 45 years old. Once you reach the age of 46 you are no longer qualified to be in any militia.

So this Militia must be regulated, although I agree with you, this is not Heller.

There are two types of militia, organized and unorganized, and neither are regulated. They are defined under 10 U.S. Code § 246. The only regulated "militia" is the military (and Coast Guard, even though they are not under the DOD).

You don't have to belong to my Militia, but you must show up for training to keep your gun buyer's permit.

No I don't. No permits are required because that would be an infringement. I don't even need a permit to carry my firearms concealed. I can carry them in any manner I please, and I don't need the government's permission.

I'd have to pack the court and overturn Heller.

You'd like me, vote Exquisitor; vote Azapizzazz.

A nice fantasy, but to pack the court you would need to control both houses of Congress and the White House and pray you never lose them - ever. If you did lose after packing the court, then Republican Party would make the Democratic Party into a terrorist organization and arrest or kill the entire lot of anti-American leftist freaks. It would seal the fate of the Democratic Party just as assuredly as WW II sealed the fate of the German NAZI party. They wouldn't survive that mistake.

 

[Bum]

Incorrect. I own multiple firearms, and I haven't been part of any militia in more than 20 years. The maximum age for all militias in the US, federal and State, is 45 years old. Once you reach the age of 46 you are no longer qualified to be in any militia.

There are two types of militia, organized and unorganized, and neither are regulated. They are defined under 10 U.S. Code § 246. The only regulated "militia" is the military (and Coast Guard, even though they are not under the DOD).

No I don't. No permits are required because that would be an infringement. I don't even need a permit to carry my firearms concealed. I can carry them in any manner I please, and I don't need the government's permission.


A nice fantasy, but to pack the court you would need to control both houses of Congress and the White House and pray you never lose them - ever. If you did lose after packing the court, then Republican Party would make the Democratic Party into a terrorist organization and arrest or kill the entire lot of anti-American leftist freaks. It would seal the fate of the Democratic Party just as assuredly as WW II sealed the fate of the German NAZI party. They wouldn't survive that mistake.

Actually, Retirees (those who spend at least 20 years in the military and draw retired pay) can be recalled to active duty for life. However, the policy established in "DoD Instruction 1352.01 - Management of Regular and Reserve Retired Military Members" makes the recall to active duty unlikely for those who have been retired for more than five years, and those over age 60 .
They fall into 3 groups:

Category I: Non-disability Soldiers retired less than 5 years and under the age of 60.
Category II: Non-disability Soldiers retired more than 5 years and under the age of 60.
Category III: All retirees that do not fit in Category I or II.

 

[Glitch]

Actually, Retirees (those who spend at least 20 years in the military and draw retired pay) can be recalled to active duty for life. However, the policy established in "DoD Instruction 1352.01 - Management of Regular and Reserve Retired Military Members" makes the recall to active duty unlikely for those who have been retired for more than five years, and those over age 60 .
They fall into 3 groups:

Category I: Non-disability Soldiers retired less than 5 years and under the age of 60.
Category II: Non-disability Soldiers retired more than 5 years and under the age of 60.
Category III: All retirees that do not fit in Category I or II.

I'm not a retired military member either. I separated from service in 1980 after 8 years on active duty, and that ended my military obligation. I ran a business for 30 years and retired 7 years ago. I still own my very first firearm. It was given to me on my 10th birthday in 1964 by my father. I will continue to keep and bear arms, without government restriction or limitations for as long as I live. As the Second Amendment intended.

 

[vegas giants]

Let's be clear.

Almost no one disputes that firearm regulation is constitutional

 

[Exquisitor]

A nice fantasy, but to pack the court you would need to control both houses of Congress and the White House and pray you never lose them - ever. If you did lose after packing the court, then Republican Party would make the Democratic Party into a terrorist organization and arrest or kill the entire lot of anti-American leftist freaks. It would seal the fate of the Democratic Party just as assuredly as WW II sealed the fate of the German NAZI party. They wouldn't survive that mistake.

When I run, I take the Nomination of both Parties.

 

[Crossfire]

A dude in Japan killed 19 and injured 26 with knives.

He was probably a ninja, much deadlier than some rando American, anyway.

 

[apdst]

He was probably a ninja, much deadlier than some rando American, anyway.

All his victims were unable to defend themselves.

 

[Crossfire]

All his victims were unable to defend themselves.

Do you even have a sense of humor, or are you always in some defensive posture waiting to combat some viewpoint that may be viewed as opposing you, politically?

 

[TurtleDude]

No, you're hypothetical.

If his guns were illegal, he would not have been able to obtain them.

Also, you're doing nothing illegal until you start shooting, with illegal guns you're walking around while breaking the law and may become visible to the law and identified.

so no one dies of heroin overdoses?

 

[TurtleDude]

Sure it is, the entire causal pattern of what I am doing completely changes if I have to work at getting my favored gun.

Sure some will get through, but the goal is to reduce statistics, not utopia.

I guess the following is hard to fathom for some-easy for us gun owners

1) people who ignore or don't care about the consequences of committing mass murder are FAR LESS LIKELY to worry about obtaining a firearm illegally

2) people who don't commit violent crimes do not need nor merit additional restrictions placed on their rights

GUN RESTRICTIONS least impact those most likely to cause harm with firearms while likely disarm those who would use firearms for lawful self defense

 

[OpportunityCost]

You don't have to belong to a Militia to own a gun, but if you own a gun, guess what,... you are the Militia.

So this Militia must be regulated, although I agree with you, this is not Heller.

You don't have to belong to my Militia, but you must show up for training to keep your gun buyer's permit.

I'd have to pack the court and overturn Heller.

You'd like me, vote Exquisitor; vote Azapizzazz.

So much wrong headed authoritarian bullshit here. I wouldn't vote for you for manure spreader even though you are obviously imminently qualified.

 

[TurtleDude]

So much wrong headed authoritarian bullshit here. I wouldn't vote for you for manure spreader even though you are obviously imminently qualified.

when you see lots of the anti gun posts-you can understand why my view (of over 40 years) has much merit-gun control is not about crime control-its about harassing people that gun control advocates see as their political or cultural enemies

 

[HIP56948]

Personally, I feel that perhaps we wouldn't have as many mass shootings if people didn't reproduce like flies and roaches. Even a few studies have shown that crowding humans rises violence. Seems like quite a few of us insist on having more children than what they can afford. Also, I'm sick and tired of driving behind a mass of humanity, plus I'm tired of paying for others inconsideration..