At the only gun shop in Thousand Oaks, fearful residents decide it's time to buy a gun

[Anarchon]

I'm the other way around... I don't carry unless I'm prepared to use it. I'm not anymore... simply because I refuse to live that way.

That's probably a good idea. However, your not being willing to defend yourself is a bad idea, if self-preservation is at all important to you. The bad guys, wrong as they are, aren't interested in a philosophical discussion concerning the virtues of pacifism. You're simply gambling.

 

[dogboy49]

For years after I got out of the Army, I was hyper-sensitive to maintaining my situational awareness no matter where I was... but it takes a toll to keep up that kind of effort. I wasn't even aware of it at the time - just second nature. I still sometimes find myself slipping back into it - it's like a bad habit I haven't entirely kicked.

Everyone is different. Some might call this trait a "feature" and not a "bug".

I will be 70 years old next April. I got my first CCW permit after my discharge in 1971. I always try to be aware of my surroundings, both while carrying and not, but to me it is more like a pleasant mental game in my head. I do it automatically, and it is not seem tiring to me.

 

[Manc Skipper]

True. But crime rates would decrease to a lower level. Anyway, it was not my intention to speculate about what would happen if there were no minorities. My main point was that minorities contribute to gun violence too, to an unknown degree, and we should not ignore this factor.

If you exclude any group's contribution you reduce the crime rate. You just chose the racist option.

 

[Wan]

If you exclude any group's contribution you reduce the crime rate.

True, but excluding different groups would lower the crime rates by different degrees.

 

[Cordelier]

That's probably a good idea. However, your not being willing to defend yourself is a bad idea, if self-preservation is at all important to you. The bad guys, wrong as they are, aren't interested in a philosophical discussion concerning the virtues of pacifism. You're simply gambling.

*LOL* I think you're getting me wrong here... I'm anything but a pacifist....and I never said I wasn't willing to defend myself. What I said is that I'm not prepared to use a gun effectively in that kind of a situation. Big difference there. I know the state of mind you have to be in to effectively respond to being shot at. The shooter has the element of surprise, has the advantage of superior firepower and isn't afraid to die. That's a no-win situation for a resisting bystander who isn't trained, armed, and "zoned in"... AND lucky. Since you can't count on luck and I don't consider myself "zoned in" anymore so there isn't much sense being armed either. The only sensible option in that situation is to keep your head and look for escape options.

 

[Anarchon]

The only sensible option in that situation is to keep your head and look for escape options.

Good luck with that. Natural selection is a bitch.

Know that you still have your option if you do have a gun. Having a gun gives you another option if you find yourself in a situation where there is no escape. There's nothing logical about your position.

 

[Cordelier]

Everyone is different. Some might call this trait a "feature" and not a "bug".

I will be 70 years old next April. I got my first CCW permit after my discharge in 1971. I always try to be aware of my surroundings, both while carrying and not, but to me it is more like a pleasant mental game in my head. I do it automatically, and it is not seem tiring to me.

Awareness is one thing.... what I'm talking about is another thing entirely. Like scoping out likely sniper perches. Never ingress a building without having at least two avenues of egress. Make note of good rally points as I walk along. Hands and eyes. 30 degree room sweeps. Three point corners. Never sit anywhere in a restaurant where you're not in a corner with a good view of the entrance and all windows. Clench the steering wheel tightly when I find myself driving up to a good ambush position on the road. That kind of thing. Living like that all of the time f***s with your head.

 

[apdst]

If America has the most guns per capita than anyone in the world why aren't we the safest?



Blaming solely minorities for violence in America is pathetic.

We're safer than El Salvador and Venezuala.

El Salvador's gun ownership per capita is 9.2 per 100 people. In The United States, it's 101 per 100 people. El Salvador's murder rate is 65:100,000. The United States in 4.9:100,000.

Gun ownership is banned in Venezuela. The murder rate is 62:100,000.

If you don't want to own a gun, that's your business. Me? I'm not going to choose to become a victim.

 

[Cordelier]

Good luck with that. Natural selection is a bitch.

Know that you still have your option if you do have a gun. Having a gun gives you another option if you find yourself in a situation where there is no escape. There's nothing logical about your position.

Especially to cowboys....*L* I hope you never find that out first-hand.

 

[Anarchon]

Especially to cowboys....*L* I hope you never find that out first-hand.

I don't understand what you mean.

 

[Cordelier]

I don't understand what you mean.

I'm not surprised. Listen... if you're looking for logic in a firefight, you're definitely in the wrong place.

 

[Anarchon]

I'm not surprised. Listen... if you're looking for logic in a firefight, you're definitely in the wrong place.

There is logic in the preparation. That's what we're discussing here when talking about carrying a gun. In fact, rule #1 of being in a gunfight is to have a gun.

 

[apdst]

Nobody ever wants to hunker down and die, do they? Fear is a wild animal... once it is unleashed, it's raw and irrational - it can save you by pushing you to run for your life, but often it does things that often don't make sense. You put that together with a gun, and it has the potential for making an already terrible situation that much worse. I'm not saying there aren't situations where an armed bystander can make a difference... I'm just suggesting that in the rare occasions where that does happen, it's just a fluke. The right person in the right place at the right time. Everybody thinks they're that person... but pretty much everybody is wrong. Unless you've been there, you don't have any idea of what it's going to be like. For years after I got out of the Army, I was hyper-sensitive to maintaining my situational awareness no matter where I was... but it takes a toll to keep up that kind of effort. I wasn't even aware of it at the time - just second nature. I still sometimes find myself slipping back into it - it's like a bad habit I haven't entirely kicked. Good habits in war zones make for bad habits at home. I probably could have responded effectively then... now, in all honestly, probably not.

Most people lack any situational awareness, especially nowadays with peoples's faces buried in their smartphones.

I exhibit the same situational awareness you describe. I don't find it the least bit taxing, mentally, or physically.

The fact that I accept the reality that there are bad people in the world is the reason I place a very high value on my high level of situational awareness. More people should exhibit higher levels of situational awareness; there would be fewer crime victims.

And yes, a lot of crimes happen because people place themselves in a vulnerable situation because they aren't paying attention to their surroundings.

 

[Cordelier]

There is logic in the preparation. That's what we're discussing here when talking about carrying a gun.

The gun isn't nearly as important as the mindset.

And if you want to talk logic where it comes to these active shooter incidents, then it's only logical to assume that they are no-win propositions as soon as the first bullet is fired. Like I said before... the shooter has the element of surprise, has picked the ground, has probably prepared for the event for months or even years, and in all probability has superior firepower. You, I, or anyone else who finds themselves in that situation are just a bunch of schmucks living their lives who have to go from 0-100 in the blink of an eye. Do you seriously think it's logical to assume that you'd have the faintest sliver of a chance to overcome those disadvantages?

 

[marke]

A lot of people have the right idea.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...-grill-fearful-residents-buy-guns/1947476002/

Smart people are arming themselves for protection against this type of violence. There are many men and women in my church who are armed just about everywhere they go. None have encountered any gun violence where they are.

One friend of mine had to pull a gun on a violent thug one time and I did also in another situation. Both incidents ended peacefully as the threat of violence disappeared when the gun came out.

 

[Cordelier]

Most people lack any situational awareness, especially nowadays with peoples's faces buried in their smartphones.

I exhibit the same situational awareness you describe. I don't find it the least bit taxing, mentally, or physically.

The fact that I accept the reality that there are bad people in the world is the reason I place a very high value on my high level of situational awareness. More people should exhibit higher levels of situational awareness; there would be fewer crime victims.

And yes, a lot of crimes happen because people place themselves in a vulnerable situation because they aren't paying attention to their surroundings.

Do you think people who are f***ed in the head know they're f***ed in the head?

 

[Cordelier]

Smart people are arming themselves for protection against this type of violence. There are many men and women in my church who are armed just about everywhere they go. None have encountered any gun violence where they are.

One friend of mine had to pull a gun on a violent thug one time and I did also in another situation. Both incidents ended peacefully as the threat of violence disappeared when the gun came out.

Your church? Are you a Christian?

 

[Anarchon]

The gun isn't nearly as important as the mindset.

And if you want to talk logic where it comes to these active shooter incidents, then it's only logical to assume that they are no-win propositions as soon as the first bullet is fired. Like I said before... the shooter has the element of surprise, has picked the ground, has probably prepared for the event for months or even years, and in all probability has superior firepower. You, I, or anyone else who finds themselves in that situation are just a bunch of schmucks living their lives who have to go from 0-100 in the blink of an eye. Do you seriously think it's logical to assume that you'd have the faintest sliver of a chance to overcome those disadvantages?

This is a defeatist's attitude. I would like the option, regardless of if the chances are stacked against me. There have been some would-be mass shootings that were cut short by people on the scene carrying. Your mindset would preclude that from ever happening.

Unfortunately, your mindset is also the government's mindset. They create the gun-free zones in which the majority of these mass-shootings occur, or they infringe on people's abilities to defend themselves in other ways. The bad guys know this...and that's precisely why they happen. If these bad guys knew their chances of success were significantly less because people were willing and capable of defending themselves, there would be fewer mass shootings.

 

[Anarchon]

Most people lack any situational awareness, especially nowadays with peoples's faces buried in their smartphones.

I exhibit the same situational awareness you describe. I don't find it the least bit taxing, mentally, or physically.

The fact that I accept the reality that there are bad people in the world is the reason I place a very high value on my high level of situational awareness. More people should exhibit higher levels of situational awareness; there would be fewer crime victims.

And yes, a lot of crimes happen because people place themselves in a vulnerable situation because they aren't paying attention to their surroundings.

I agree with everything said here. Like most things, once you practice enough, it can become automatic. This is regardless of if it is a mental or physical process.

 

[Rucker61]

The gun isn't nearly as important as the mindset.

And if you want to talk logic where it comes to these active shooter incidents, then it's only logical to assume that they are no-win propositions as soon as the first bullet is fired. Like I said before... the shooter has the element of surprise, has picked the ground, has probably prepared for the event for months or even years, and in all probability has superior firepower. You, I, or anyone else who finds themselves in that situation are just a bunch of schmucks living their lives who have to go from 0-100 in the blink of an eye. Do you seriously think it's logical to assume that you'd have the faintest sliver of a chance to overcome those disadvantages?

Me? Hopefully I never have to find out. We have seen where CCW holders did have to react and did stop active shooters. See "chicago Uber ccw", "Philadelphia barber shop ccw" or "South Carolina bar ccw".

 

[apdst]

I agree with everything said here. Like most things, once you practice enough, it can become automatic. This is regardless of if it is a mental or physical process.

Absolutely! I've noticed for a long time how unattentive people (in The United States) are to their surroundings.

I find it scary to think of myself being that unaware.

 

[apdst]

The gun isn't nearly as important as the mindset.

And if you want to talk logic where it comes to these active shooter incidents, then it's only logical to assume that they are no-win propositions as soon as the first bullet is fired. Like I said before... the shooter has the element of surprise, has picked the ground, has probably prepared for the event for months or even years, and in all probability has superior firepower. You, I, or anyone else who finds themselves in that situation are just a bunch of schmucks living their lives who have to go from 0-100 in the blink of an eye. Do you seriously think it's logical to assume that you'd have the faintest sliver of a chance to overcome those disadvantages?

You were in the Army, yeah? Then you know that "no plan survives first contact with the enemy".

There are always unknowns in any attack. No mass shooter plans to meet a skilled, motivated defender. That's why they attack targets that they believe to be 100% defenseless. A counter-attack, using maximum violence is the unknown in these kinds of attacks. When counter-attacked, his plan doesn't survive.

 

[marke]

Your church? Are you a Christian?

I am.

 

[Manc Skipper]

I am.

You show little evidence of spreading the love.

 

[Manc Skipper]

How does having "moar gunz" save Thousand Oaks from the fires presently occupying the minds of the grieving survivors?