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At the only gun shop in Thousand Oaks, fearful residents decide it's time to buy a gun

RabidAlpaca

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Adding even more guns to a society plagued with violence, yeah, that'll magically make things safe. The country with the most guns per capita in the world is unsafe because we just don't have enough guns! :roll:
 

Crosscheck

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That is being reactive, we need to be proactive.

Anyone who decides to just open fire in a crowded facility has the upper hand.
Even the sheriff deputy who arrived within 2 mins of call was gunned down. Although his encounter with the shooter gave time for others to escape.

The Sheriff had to be careful and shoot the right person and with all that chaos avoid shooting an innocent victim.
The shooter doesn't have to worry about his aim at all just point in their direction and fire.

Someone with a concealed weapon may have been able to stop the shooter but that is no easy task especially with the smoke bombs furthering make it hard to distinguish him.

I wished there had been someone to bust the shooter's head after he offed the security guard but unfortunately that just happens in the movies.

I think people really have to be more observant. His family knew he had the potential for violence and was unstable. But I think everybody here can think of someone they know who may be a ticking timebomb and that just may all be bluff on their part.


It is just a shame.
 

Captain Adverse

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Yes they do.

First Responders take time to respond to deadly and dangerous situations unless one is very, very lucky.

Self defense is one's personal responsibility; and thanks to the Founders it was also enshrined in both the Declaration of Independence (right to life and liberty) and as a Right guaranteed via the Second Amendment.

People need to recognize that giving up their arms and pushing for laws forcing other's to do so only makes it easier for those who don't care about the law to harm them.

IMO we should be teaching citizens the value of responsible gun ownership and how important the right to self-defense is when facing felons, invaders, and "benign" (oppressive) government forces.
 

apdst

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That is being reactive, we need to be proactive.

Anyone who decides to just open fire in a crowded facility has the upper hand.
Even the sheriff deputy who arrived within 2 mins of call was gunned down. Although his encounter with the shooter gave time for others to escape.

The Sheriff had to be careful and shoot the right person and with all that chaos avoid shooting an innocent victim.
The shooter doesn't have to worry about his aim at all just point in their direction and fire.

Someone with a concealed weapon may have been able to stop the shooter but that is no easy task especially with the smoke bombs furthering make it hard to distinguish him.

I wished there had been someone to bust the shooter's head after he offed the security guard but unfortunately that just happens in the movies.

I think people really have to be more observant. His family knew he had the potential for violence and was unstable. But I think everybody here can think of someone they know who may be a ticking timebomb and that just may all be bluff on their part.


It is just a shame.

100% of mass shootings are stopped, or detered with a gun.

Long stopped shooting long enough to post on Instagram. That's at least 60 seconds. That was plenty of time for an armed defender to attack.
 

apdst

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Adding even more guns to a society plagued with violence, yeah, that'll magically make things safe. The country with the most guns per capita in the world is unsafe because we just don't have enough guns! :roll:

Guns save hundreds of thousands of live in The United States, every year. If, as you claim, the country is "plagued with violence", then more people certainly need to keep and bear arms.
 

Cordelier

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100% of mass shootings are stopped, or detered with a gun.

Long stopped shooting long enough to post on Instagram. That's at least 60 seconds. That was plenty of time for an armed defender to attack.

Have you ever been shot at?
 

Cordelier

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Then you ought to know what it takes to respond effectively. And you also ought to know I'm not talking about a gun.
 

RabidAlpaca

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Guns save hundreds of thousands of live in The United States, every year. If, as you claim, the country is "plagued with violence", then more people certainly need to keep and bear arms.

Then how crazy and illogical it is that all the other developed countries seem to be statistically safer with dramatically less guns than the US. If your thesis were correct America would be the safest place on earth.
 

apdst

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Then you ought to know what it takes to respond effectively. And you also ought to know I'm not talking about a gun.

You're right. It takes mental training, along with firearms proficiency. Fear, though and a will to survive will make up for a lack of training, sometimes. Fortunately, I never attended the school of "hunker-down-and-die".
 

apdst

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Then how crazy and illogical it is that all the other developed countries seem to be statistically safer with dramatically less guns than the US. If your thesis were correct America would be the safest place on earth.

How is it that there are countries with incredibly lower gun ownership have incredibly higher murder rates?
 

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Then how crazy and illogical it is that all the other developed countries seem to be statistically safer with dramatically less guns than the US. If your thesis were correct America would be the safest place on earth.

Those countries likely have different demographics than the States. There are more minorities (especially the more violence-prone races like blacks and Mexicans) in the US than most other Western countries.
 

Cordelier

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You're right. It takes mental training, along with firearms proficiency. Fear, though and a will to survive will make up for a lack of training, sometimes. Fortunately, I never attended the school of "hunker-down-and-die".

Nobody ever wants to hunker down and die, do they? Fear is a wild animal... once it is unleashed, it's raw and irrational - it can save you by pushing you to run for your life, but often it does things that often don't make sense. You put that together with a gun, and it has the potential for making an already terrible situation that much worse. I'm not saying there aren't situations where an armed bystander can make a difference... I'm just suggesting that in the rare occasions where that does happen, it's just a fluke. The right person in the right place at the right time. Everybody thinks they're that person... but pretty much everybody is wrong. Unless you've been there, you don't have any idea of what it's going to be like. For years after I got out of the Army, I was hyper-sensitive to maintaining my situational awareness no matter where I was... but it takes a toll to keep up that kind of effort. I wasn't even aware of it at the time - just second nature. I still sometimes find myself slipping back into it - it's like a bad habit I haven't entirely kicked. Good habits in war zones make for bad habits at home. I probably could have responded effectively then... now, in all honestly, probably not.
 

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Adding even more guns to a society plagued with violence, yeah, that'll magically make things safe. The country with the most guns per capita in the world is unsafe because we just don't have enough guns! :roll:

More children died last year from second hand smoke. Stop panicking.
 

RabidAlpaca

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How is it that there are countries with incredibly lower gun ownership have incredibly higher murder rates?

If America has the most guns per capita than anyone in the world why aren't we the safest?

Those countries likely have different demographics than the States. There are more minorities (especially the more violence-prone races like blacks and Mexicans) in the US than most other Western countries.

Blaming solely minorities for violence in America is pathetic.
 

Wan

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blaming solely minorities for violence in America is pathetic.

But I didn't say it was solely minorities' fault. I am saying that we should take demographics into account.
 

RabidAlpaca

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But I didn't say it was solely minorities' fault. I am saying that we should take demographics into account.

No, what you're saying is that if we didn't have minorities we wouldn't have a violence problem, ergo, they're the problem. Truly pathetic and you should be ashamed.
 

Wan

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No, what you're saying is that if we didn't have minorities we wouldn't have a violence problem, ergo, they're the problem. Truly pathetic and you should be ashamed.

That's not what I said at all. I said we should take demographics into account. That was all I said, but you twisted it into something else entirely. I never said, "if we didn't have minorities we wouldn't have a violence problem".
 

RabidAlpaca

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That's not what I said at all. I said we should take demographics into account. That was all I said, but you twisted it into something else entirely. I never said, "if we didn't have minorities we wouldn't have a violence problem".

In a conversation about America's violent crime rate, directly pointing to blacks and hispanics as the reason we have a problem is objectively racist. We'd still have a violent crime problem if only whites were allowed in America, and the vast number of mass shooting perpetrators are white. Stop blaming other races for our problem as a society.
 

Wan

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. We'd still have a violent crime problem if only whites were allowed in America,

True. But crime rates would decrease to a lower level. Anyway, it was not my intention to speculate about what would happen if there were no minorities. My main point was that minorities contribute to gun violence too, to an unknown degree, and we should not ignore this factor.
 

Anarchon

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Have you ever been shot at?

Yep. Unfortunately, more than a few times. I can tell you that the last thing you want in that situation is to be helpless. Ever since, I've always carried a gun with me. My only regret was that I was so stupid before, that it took bad things to happen to me to wake me up in the first place. I should have been carrying my entire life.
 

Cordelier

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Yep. Unfortunately, more than a few times. I can tell you that the last thing you want in that situation is to be helpless. Ever since, I've always carried a gun with me. My only regret was that I was so stupid before, that it took bad things to happen to me to wake me up in the first place. I should have been carrying my entire life.

I'm the other way around... I don't carry unless I'm prepared to use it. I'm not anymore... simply because I refuse to live that way.
 

Anarchon

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Yes they do.

First Responders take time to respond to deadly and dangerous situations unless one is very, very lucky.

Self defense is one's personal responsibility; and thanks to the Founders it was also enshrined in both the Declaration of Independence (right to life and liberty) and as a Right guaranteed via the Second Amendment.

People need to recognize that giving up their arms and pushing for laws forcing other's to do so only makes it easier for those who don't care about the law to harm them.

IMO we should be teaching citizens the value of responsible gun ownership and how important the right to self-defense is when facing felons, invaders, and "benign" (oppressive) government forces.

You're saying some good things here. Unfortunately, you fall short. The things you are talking about require the abolishment of government. Government is the one thing keeping people from protecting themselves in these situations.
 
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