At Least 130,000 Covid-19 Deaths Were Avoidable, Trump Administration An ‘Abject Failure’

[Bullseye]

The president has the authority to take a firmer grip during a national crisis such as a pandemic. Sorry that your poor knowledge of civics is more important than human life.

Guess again. I provided a link to support my position. Now YOU put one up or admit:

 

[Phys251]

Guess again. I provided a link to support my position. Now YOU put one up or admit:

Except the link you provided said no such thing. But we've learned never to hold out for honesty which will never, ever come from trump supporters.

 

[Bullseye]

Except the link you provided said no such thing. But we've learned never to hold out for honesty which will never, ever come from trump supporters.

So, you're admitting you couldn't fine anything to disprove me. There are hundreds more. I'll wait until you provide a rebuttal like rather than butthead replies.

 

[Phys251]

So, you're admitting you couldn't fine anything to disprove me.

So you're gonna spam links, deliberately take the out of context, refuse to read them, and demand that I do the reading?

Puh-lease. An AI script could do better than that.

 

[Fred C Dobbs II]

From the center-right Forbes magazine:

Report: At Least 130,000 Covid-19 Deaths Were Avoidable, Trump Administration An ‘Abject Failure’

The Trump administration’s failure to act, mockery of experts and politicization of the pandemic may have cost hundreds of thousands of American lives, researchers at Columbia University claim.

www.forbes.com

trump has hundreds of thousands of deaths on his hands. There is no way to explain this away.

Given that Donald Trump is neither a doctor or a scientist it's difficult to see your reasoning. Would you give him credit for lowering the average number of deaths caused by the annual flu? https://noqreport.com/2020/10/19/fl...tients-being-misdiagnosed-as-having-covid-19/

 

[Lursa]

Many in fact are, and the ones that are not are still some version of authoritarian. Nearly all educated experts believe if they could just be in charge without any meddling from pesky plebes and their stupid elected leaders it would all be paradise

Fauci is talking about banning people from going to thanksgiving, it’s clear he’s not even thinking about the idea of trade offs

not only am I going to thanksgiving, I’m traveling out of state to do it.Fauci can get bent

That's a lie. Fauci is recommending people try to limit their gatherings, to immediate family and those they normally are in contact with.

He's not recommending 'banning' anything. Source that.

 

[Fred C Dobbs II]

The president has the authority to take a firmer grip during a national crisis such as a pandemic. Sorry that your poor knowledge of civics is more important than human life.

A 'firmer grip' than the State Governors? Unconstitutional. But perhaps those like Cuomo should have admitted their incompetence earlier on, passed responsibility to the Feds, and thousands of lives would have been saved.

 

[PoS]

Well, let's take a look at the actual "study."

Point 1.

https://ncdp.columbia.edu/custom-content/uploads/2020/10/Avoidable-COVID-19-Deaths-US-NCDP.pdf

Point 2, Introduction:

https://ncdp.columbia.edu/custom-content/uploads/2020/10/Avoidable-COVID-19-Deaths-US-NCDP.pdf

Point 3, When you go into the actual methodology, they are using estimates, which in their own words...

https://ncdp.columbia.edu/custom-content/uploads/2020/10/Avoidable-COVID-19-Deaths-US-NCDP.pdf

They used an "averaged approach," ending up blaming "not enough testing," and "contact tracing." Also asserting that it was "delayed response," and "lack of mask guidance" as the critical factors.

NOTE: No mention of those States that initially ordered the most vulnerable members of society, the elderly, to be housed together with those elderly who had Covid-19. Reports have attributed nearly 50% of all deaths to that action. State ordered action by the way.

Final note, I have problems with placing any faith in many studies occurring these days. Too often they are subject to confirmation bias, as in this case "how can we find that the current Administration is responsible for..."

The methodologies, assumptions, and other crucial steps often lead to exactly what the "researcher's" are "expecting" to find.

Exactly. Biased studies are pseudo science, not fact.

 

[AliHajiSheik]

As "a special advisor to New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio, with a focus on emergency management and planning to support and advise the administration's citywide disaster preparedness and response efforts," What has Dr Irwin Redlener been doing for New York City the last 6 years? Maybe he isn't the best person to be delivering this message.

 

[Phys251]

A 'firmer grip' than the State Governors? Unconstitutional.

Wrong. A national crisis such as a pandemic empowers the president to manage it. It's practically expected that a president will do such a thing--that's part of why we have one.

 

[switt]

From the center-right Forbes magazine:

Report: At Least 130,000 Covid-19 Deaths Were Avoidable, Trump Administration An ‘Abject Failure’

The Trump administration’s failure to act, mockery of experts and politicization of the pandemic may have cost hundreds of thousands of American lives, researchers at Columbia University claim.

www.forbes.com

trump has hundreds of thousands of deaths on his hands. There is no way to explain this away.

Do you suppose there will be a requirement to wear a mask at our Trump U graduation?

 

[Phys251]

Do you suppose there will be a requirement to wear a mask at our Trump U graduation?

Trump "U" graduates students?

 

[RetiredUSN]

Hindsight.

The tool of liberals.

 

[HennyBogan]

From the center-right Forbes magazine:

Report: At Least 130,000 Covid-19 Deaths Were Avoidable, Trump Administration An ‘Abject Failure’

The Trump administration’s failure to act, mockery of experts and politicization of the pandemic may have cost hundreds of thousands of American lives, researchers at Columbia University claim.

www.forbes.com

trump has hundreds of thousands of deaths on his hands. There is no way to explain this away.

Bullshit, stop eating shit and do some exercise

 

[Phys251]

Bullshit, stop eating shit and do some exercise

Instead of making childish attacks, would you like to address what the article said?

 

[switt]

Trump "U" graduates students?

Yes, we are all about to receive our 4 yr degrees. On Nov. 3, many of us are applying for an advanced degree.

 

[Phys251]

Yes, we are all about to receive our 4 yr degrees. On Nov. 3, many of us are applying for an advanced degree.

If you really want one of these, so be it. I can't force you out of your foolishness.

 

[HennyBogan]

Instead of making childish attacks, would you like to address what the article said?

Nope, the fault lies with your system of government, which allows individual states to control what happens. In the real world NY, NJ and surrounding areas would have been cut off and quarantined. But to what end, only fools think they can stop an airborne coronavirus from spreading, it will always find its way

 

[Phys251]

Nope, the fault lies with your system of government, which allows individual states to control what happens. In the real world NY, NJ and surrounding areas would have been cut off and quarantined. But to what end, only fools think they can stop an airborne coronavirus from spreading, it will always find its way

You've been drinking way too much Duterte Kool-Aid. Clean up your own country's shit before you try to make ours worse.

 

[NWRatCon]

Of course the US could have done better, but by selectively using comparative analysis, one can further a narrative.

US: 328,200,000 population, 8,398,267 cases, 222,940 deaths. 2.55% of population tested positive; .067% of population died. 2.65% of those with COVID died
France: 66,990,000 population, 1,041,991 cases, 34,237 deaths. 1.55% of population tested positive; .042% of population died. 3.28% of those with COVID died

Presumably, no one without COVID died of COVID, otherwise, they would be in the numbers. If someone tests positive for COVID in the US, they are a case. If they are tested the next day and are positive, they are another case. More flaws. Similarly, are there no instances where someone with COVID and then died did not die from COVID, merely with COVID? More flaws.

Someone in France could draw the conclusion that 6,576 of the French could have been saved if the people who contracted COVID had the same recovery rate as the US. That simplistic view would be flawed too.

To be fair, the researchers did acknowledge: "None of these estimates is without potential flaws. Crude mortality estimates such as these have clear limitations, despite their value for inter-country comparisons."

I do not think your numbers mean what you think they mean, flawed as your reasoning is. Less of their population contracted Covid, less of their population died. And, it should be noted, most of their fatalities occurred early in the pandemic, when our fatality rate was over 4%.

 

[Noodlegawd]

From the center-right Forbes magazine:

Report: At Least 130,000 Covid-19 Deaths Were Avoidable, Trump Administration An ‘Abject Failure’

The Trump administration’s failure to act, mockery of experts and politicization of the pandemic may have cost hundreds of thousands of American lives, researchers at Columbia University claim.

www.forbes.com

trump has hundreds of thousands of deaths on his hands. There is no way to explain this away.

There seems to be a huge amount of cherry-picking, speculation, and whataboutism in this article and the OP.

For instance the article says that if only the US had acted sooner, it could have had far fewer deaths in the first couple months of the pandemic. But then it goes on to compare the US death rates to a handful of other countries for the entire pandemic, not just those critical first months. And of course, it leaves out Belgium, Spain, Italy, and the UK, all of which have had had comparable total death rates to the US, much higher death rates in the early months, and are now rocketing off into deep space with their daily case counts. Even France is up to 40k new cases per day, more than double the per capita cases in the US.

And then it goes on to talk about prevention measures like a national mask mandate and contact tracing that the federal government probably doesn't even have the power to do, and that are appropriately done at the state level (if at all). The OP is apparently blaming Trump for the failure of Gavin Newsom, for example, to implement and adequately enforce and maintain lockdowns and mask mandates and conduct adequate contact tracing (CA has had about 40 times the death rate of S. Korea after all), while not giving him credit for the fact that NY, NJ, CT, and MA were successful after a miserable couple of months, in driving their daily deaths down to a handful per day.

So yeah, maybe if Trump had been more positive on mask wearing, perhaps it could have had a bit of a positive effect. But to say that better rhetoric and coordination from the President could have saved "hundreds of thousands" of lives is patently absurd. If Newsom couldn't make it happen for just over 10% of the country, what makes anyone think that the President could make it happen for the entire country?

 

[AliHajiSheik]

I do not think your numbers mean what you think they mean, flawed as your reasoning is. Less of their population contracted Covid, less of their population died. And, it should be noted, most of their fatalities occurred early in the pandemic, when our fatality rate was over 4%.

I presented the factual numbers for the US and France and then I did some long division and demonstrated the flaws in the studies presentation of the numbers. Why don't you believe in the science of long division?

Please don't lecture me about what you "think", a thinking person knows the difference between less and fewer.

 

[Phys251]

There seems to be a huge amount of cherry-picking, speculation, and whataboutism in this article and the OP.

For instance the article says that if only the US had acted sooner, it could have had far fewer deaths in the first couple months of the pandemic. But then it goes on to compare the US death rates to a handful of other countries for the entire pandemic, not just those critical first months. And of course, it leaves out Belgium, Spain, Italy, and the UK, all of which have had had comparable total death rates to the US, much higher death rates in the early months, and are now rocketing off into deep space with their daily case counts. Even France is up to 40k new cases per day, more than double the per capita cases in the US.

And then it goes on to talk about prevention measures like a national mask mandate and contact tracing that the federal government probably doesn't even have the power to do, and that are appropriately done at the state level (if at all). The OP is apparently blaming Trump for the failure of Gavin Newsom, for example, to implement and adequately enforce and maintain lockdowns and mask mandates and conduct adequate contact tracing (CA has had about 40 times the death rate of S. Korea after all), while not giving him credit for the fact that NY, NJ, CT, and MA were successful after a miserable couple of months, in driving their daily deaths down to a handful per day.

So yeah, maybe if Trump had been more positive on mask wearing, perhaps it could have had a bit of a positive effect. But to say that better rhetoric and coordination from the President could have saved "hundreds of thousands" of lives is patently absurd. If Newsom couldn't make it happen for just over 10% of the country, what makes anyone think that the President could make it happen for the entire country?

If only that news story referenced a scientific report that already answered your question!

 

[pamak]

Given that Donald Trump is neither a doctor or a scientist it's difficult to see your reasoning. Would you give him credit for lowering the average number of deaths caused by the annual flu? https://noqreport.com/2020/10/19/fl...tients-being-misdiagnosed-as-having-covid-19/

A manager does not have to be a doctor, scientist or engineer. His job is to find and manage the right people to produce results. And if a manager of a company or of a government precides at a time of extreme high losses, compared to other companies or countries then he will be blamed for the results regardles of the field. So, yes, atypically high flu deaths in the US compare to other countries will indicatee some type of political failure.

 

[lurchadams]

You make a lot of hasty generalizations and assumptions. For example, we've already had "battles of the experts" who disagree on all sorts of things having occurred during this pandemic; from the value or lack there-of of masks, various pharmaceuticals, herd immunity, etc.. One also forgets the many mistakes made by such experts depending on false or misleading information. The W.H.O.'s assertion of no "human to human" transmission for one. Fauci's original assertions that masks have no value for another.

There is no "battle of the experts"! There is a battle being waged by the trump administration on science. All the examples you list in your above gas-lighting paragraph are declarations made by actual experts, being struck down or discredited by you and other trumpists.

Nice gas-lighting attempt, though. trump is responsible for thousands of deaths and none of your pseudo-intellectual double-talk can change that.