Assuming, for a moment, that there is an end to this horror, can a Putin-led Russia ever be included in the civilized world again?

[Shrink726]

I don't see any way this could happen.

Russia will be forced to pay reparations to Ukraine and Putin will be found guilty of war crimes/crimes against humanity.

They will lose their seat on the UN Security Council.

In short, they'll be viewed as a nation completely out of control.

Too bad the Russian people really have no say in their county's actions.

 

[phoenix2020]

I don't see any way this could happen.

I don't see why it couldn't. We killed many more Iraqi civilians based on lies of similar magnitude and seem to be doing just fine. No reason Russia can't achieve the same.

Russia will be forced to pay reparations to Ukraine

This is unlikely to happen.

and Putin will be found guilty of war crimes/crimes against humanity.

By a court with no enforcement authority, this will likely be meaningless.

They will lose their seat on the UN Security Council.

They will not.

In short, they'll be viewed as a nation completely out of control.

They'll be viewed like we were during Desert Storm. Nuclear armed powers like running roughshod over others while the rest of the world stands largely powerless to stop them. Russia's actions today are just the latest example.

Too bad the Russian people really have no say in their county's actions.

This is probably the one thing in your post that is correct. It increasingly appears to be the case.

 

[Queen Margo]

All he has to do is say he hates Trump and the liberals would embrace him, believe me!!

 

[TheParser]

Oh, yes, Russia could be allowed again in the community of civilized nations (because a lot of Russians oppose the current rape of Ukraine).

NO WAY that entity who calls himself "president" can ever, ever be forgiven. He is lucky if he is able to be flown to his mistress in Switzerland instead of the International Court of Justice at the Hague. He has the blood of thousands of Ukrainians on his hands. He should be declared a non-person (as the Soviets used to do to their opponents).

 

[element94]

I don't see any way this could happen.

Russia will be forced to pay reparations to Ukraine and Putin will be found guilty of war crimes/crimes against humanity.

They will lose their seat on the UN Security Council.

In short, they'll be viewed as a nation completely out of control.

Too bad the Russian people really have no say in their county's actions.

Putin better hope it goes better than it did for Saddam Hussein who practically had his faced ripped off as a result of his hanging.

 

[lwf]

I doubt it. Russia is likely to be a pariah state for the rest of Putin's life.

 

[Queen Margo]

I doubt it. Russia is likely to be a pariah state for the rest of Putin's life.

China is in bed with Putin

 

[lwf]

China is in bed with Putin

They're also in bed with North Korea and it's still a pariah state.

 

[Queen Margo]

They're also in bed with North Korea and it's still a pariah state.

Putin doesn't care as long as he is funded

 

[element94]

I doubt it. Russia is likely to be a pariah state for the rest of Putin's life.

There should be no attempt to apprehend, or strike, him for war crimes?

 

[Tigerace117]

I don't see any way this could happen.

Russia will be forced to pay reparations to Ukraine and Putin will be found guilty of war crimes/crimes against humanity.

They will lose their seat on the UN Security Council.

In short, they'll be viewed as a nation completely out of control.

Too bad the Russian people really have no say in their county's actions.

Lol what? America didn’t lose its security council seat over Iraq, so the idea that Russia would over Ukraine is rather amusing

 

[Tigerace117]

There should be no attempt to apprehend, or strike, him for war crimes?

Nope, because, again, Russia has literally thousands of nuclear warheads. Same reason nobody tried to “strike” George W Bush over Iraq.

 

[element94]

Nope, because, again, Russia has literally thousands of nuclear warheads. Same reason nobody tried to “strike” George W Bush over Iraq.

But, of course, if Russia moves into a NATO country the U.S. cannot just stand by and watch.

 

[Craig234]

There are ways Russia could return to a somewhat more normal situation, but I think Putin is irredeemably a Hitler-like war criminal figure, and I hope the world's sanctions continue until there is new leadership that changes things.

There are great practical issues with continuing sanctions, and a lot of innocent Russians are harmed; it's important that the wrong of the country be more important anyway and they're punished, but longer term I'd hope there's a ways to have Russia be a better country and allowed to do ok. There should be a lot of reparations.

 

[Luckyone]

I don't see why it couldn't. We killed many more Iraqi civilians based on lies of similar magnitude and seem to be doing just fine. No reason Russia can't achieve the same.

This is unlikely to happen.

By a court with no enforcement authority, this will likely be meaningless.

They will not.

They'll be viewed like we were during Desert Storm. Nuclear armed powers like running roughshod over others while the rest of the world stands largely powerless to stop them. Russia's actions today are just the latest example.

This is probably the one thing in your post that is correct. It increasingly appears to be the case.

I always am amazed at people that think like you do. These statements of yours are ridiculous: 1) "We killed many more Iraqi civilians based on lies of similar magnitude and seem to be doing just fine." and 2) "They'll be viewed like we were during Desert Storm. Nuclear armed powers like running roughshod over others while the rest of the world stands largely powerless to stop them"

We never targeted children, women, and old people. If they did die, it was because they were casualties of the war. In some cases, they were errors made that resulted in innocents being killed. Nonetheless, the U.S. never targeted innocents, children, women, or old people. Do I need to show you the difference?





This is just plain evil and cruelty that CANNOT be forgiven or forgotten. This is on a par with what Hitler did. Hitler was never forgiven or forgotten.

Wars are wars and they are always bad and in many cases, actions that occur are criticizable but there is a big difference. Life is precious and if you have not done anything to earn being targeted, targeting your death is unforgivable. You are way off on your thinking and it is certainly troublesome.

 

[jnug]

Assuming, for a moment, that there is an end to this horror, can a Putin-led Russia ever be included in the civilized world again?​

No! Whatever happens now, Putin has lost his strategic campaign.

Best example of "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" I have ever seen.

 

[CaughtInThe]

The war in Ukraine is gonna continue in some fashion for the next decade. So I don't think anything gets solved until Putin is dead.

 

[Cardinal]

I said that if he Dresden's the country he'll be an international pariah forever. And sure enough, he's Dresdening the country.

 

[phoenix2020]

I always am amazed at people that think like you do. These statements of yours are ridiculous: 1) "We killed many more Iraqi civilians based on lies of similar magnitude and seem to be doing just fine." and 2) "They'll be viewed like we were during Desert Storm. Nuclear armed powers like running roughshod over others while the rest of the world stands largely powerless to stop them"

We never targeted children, women, and old people. If they did die, it was because they were casualties of the war. In some cases, they were errors made that resulted in innocents being killed. Nonetheless, the U.S. never targeted innocents, children, women, or old people. Do I need to show you the difference?

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View attachment 67381414

This is just plain evil and cruelty that CANNOT be forgiven or forgotten. This is on a par with what Hitler did. Hitler was never forgiven or forgotten.

Wars are wars and they are always bad and in many cases, actions that occur are criticizable but there is a big difference. Life is precious and if you have not done anything to earn being targeted, targeting your death is unforgivable. You are way off on your thinking and it is certainly troublesome.

I likewise am amazed by people like you. The fact remains that we invaded a sovereign nation illegally, based on a lie, and killed large numbers of civilians. It was evil, and it was wrong. Did we pay a price for it? Were we permanently excommunicated from civil society? No. We are doing just fine.

Someone asked if Russia can ‘ever again’ freely interact with other nations. My opinion and reply is ‘yes’ they can, because the United States remains an existential proof point that one can invade nations over and over, kill civilizations, destroy infrastructure and commit atrocities, then move on as if none of this ever happened. Your post exemplifies my point. You’ve moved on, and you’ve found a way to rationalize why what Russia is doing is worse than anything we’ve done, and therefore why Russia must remain excluded while we remain included.

 

[Tigerace117]

But, of course, if Russia moves into a NATO country the U.S. cannot just stand by and watch.

Of course we can’t. But that hasn’t happened.

 

[Tigerace117]

I said that if he Dresden's the country he'll be an international pariah forever. And sure enough, he's Dresdening the country.

Meh, I don’t know about that. Iraq didn’t look too hot after we smashed Saddam and the insurgency started up but America isn’t an international pariah.

 

[Cardinal]

Meh, I don’t know about that. Iraq didn’t look too hot after we smashed Saddam and the insurgency started up but America isn’t an international pariah.

We didn't deliberately target civilians.

 

[Tigerace117]

We didn't deliberately target civilians.

There were multiple incidents of targeting happening in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Not to mention the behavior of Blackwater and the other mercenaries we brought in because it turned out that no, it wasn’t going to be a quick little war like we assumed.

Yet we did not become some kind of eternal pariah, and the Russians won’t either.,

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

I don't see any way this could happen.

Russia will be forced to pay reparations to Ukraine and Putin will be found guilty of war crimes/crimes against humanity.

They will lose their seat on the UN Security Council.

In short, they'll be viewed as a nation completely out of control.

Too bad the Russian people really have no say in their county's actions.

I think you are greatly overreacting and exaggerating.

Its not like we havent seen any phony unnecessary "wars" before this.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

We didn't deliberately target civilians.

You dont think there were any civilians in Iraq during the Shock & Awe terror attacks? I'll bet there were.