assault weapons

[C.J.]

What does a trained law abidding citizen need with an assualt rifle? An assualt rifle kills things with an incredible rate of efficiency. Period.

Explain why you want to make a trained law abidding citizen a criminal by possessing a weapon which is inferior to a shotgun at close range and inferior to a deer rifle at extreme range.

Define "assault rifle"

Define "incredible rate of efficiency"

I really haven't heard of a legitmate use for an assualt rifle....

Sport shooting is not a legitimate use? Plinking is not a legitimate use? Livestock protection is not a legitimate use? Personal protection is not a legitimate use? What, you want them to smash atoms too?

I don't think the one country boy who has a stray dog problem has the necessity to use an assault rifle over a hand gun, etc...

Ever shot at any target at 100 plus yards with a handgun and placed the bullet where you needed it?

 

[sebastiansdreams]

That is such a sweet game ehh?

Honestly, deep down, I think stuff like that is a necessity. A neccessity I don't want to know about though. :lol:

Well, play Fable. I always have to take the good path instead of the dark one, and that is how I know I'm okay

 

[swampkritter]

Airfoil... someone's been playing too much splinter cell.
If you are concerned about the well being of your animals because they are in the way of the dog you are trying to shoot, perhaps you could get an airsoft/bb gun so just in case you're not dead-on-balls accurate, nothing is hurt.

Teacher:
When Yoda talks I can decipher the reversed sentences, but for some reason I'm not as successful when it is in writing. :lol:

What does a trained law abidding citizen need with an assualt rifle? An assualt rifle kills things with an incredible rate of efficiency. Period.

I really haven't heard of a legitmate use for an assualt rifle.

I don't think the one country boy who has a stray dog problem has the necessity to use an assault rifle over a hand gun, etc...

Question: What difference is there between a semi-auto hunting rifle and a semi-auto "assault weapon" of the exact same caliber which makes the "assault weapon" more deadly?

I own a handgun as well.

Question: Which one is more accurate, a 9mm handgun or a 9mm rifle?

Question: What is YOUR definition of an assault rifle?

Did you know that the "assault weapons" which were previously banned accounted for less than 2% of all gun related crimes before the ban went into effect and did not change while the ban was in effect?

A​

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SSAULT WEAPONS
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“Assault weapon” is an invented term. In the firearm lexicon, there is no such thing as an “assault weapon”. The closest relative is the “assault rifle”, which is a machine gun that fires rifle cartridges.​

​

Myth: “Assault weapons” are a serious problem in the U.S.
​

Fact: ​

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In 1994, before the Federal assault weapons ban, you were eleven (11) timesmore likely to be beaten to death than to be killed by an “assault weapon”.(FBI Uniform Crime Statistics, 1994)
​

Fact: ​

​

Nationally, “assault weapons” were used in 1.4% of crimes involving firearms and 0.25% of all violent crime before the enactment of any national or state “assault weapons” ban. In many major urban areas (San Antonio, Mobile, Nashville, etc.) and some entire states (Maryland, New Jersey, etc.) the rate is less than 0.1%(Gary Kleck, “Targeting Guns”, 1997, compilation of 48 metropolitan police departments from 1980-1994)
​

Fact: ​

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Even weapons misclassified as “assault weapons” (common in the Federal and California assault weapons confiscations) are used in less than 1% of all homicides.(FBI Uniform Crime Statistics, 1993)
​

Fact: ​

​

In Virginia, no surveyed inmates had carried an assault weapon during thecommission of their last crime, despite 20% admitting that they had previously ownedsuch weapons.(Criminal Justice Research Center, Department of Criminal Justice Services, 1994)
​

Fact: ​

​

Most “assault weapons” have no more firepower or killing capacity than the average hunting rifle and “play a small role in overall violent crime”.(Philip McGuire, Handgun Control, Inc., April 7, 1989, Mohr C. "House Panel Issue: Can Gun Ban Work." New York Times. April 7, 1989. P. A-15
​

Fact: ​

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Even the government agrees. “ . . . the weapons banned by this legislation [1994 Federal Assault Weapons ban] were used only rarely in gun crimes”(​

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Impacts of the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban: 1994-96.”, National Institute of Justice, March 1999)
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Myth: Nobody needs an “assault weapon”
​

Fact: ​

​

​

There are many reasons people prefer to use these firearms:
​

· ​

They are easy to operate
​

· ​

They are very reliable in outdoor conditions (backpacking, hunting, etc.)
​

· ​

They are accurate
​

· ​

They have value in many self-defense situations
​

Fact: ​

​

There are many sports in which these firearms are required:
​

· ​

Many hunters use these firearms
​

· ​

Three-gun target matches
​

· ​

Bodyguard simulations
​

Fact: ​

​

Ours is a Bill of Rights, not a Bill of Needs.
​

 

[Kyle]

I don't think they really care if only assault weapons are banned, they want all guns banned and assault rifles appear to be the easiest target.

BB guns can be deadly close range and unless your target is relatively close or you have a really powerful bb gun (even more deadly) there's little chance of hitting anything you aim for.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Question: What difference is there between a semi-auto hunting rifle and a semi-auto "assault weapon" of the exact same caliber which makes the "assault weapon" more deadly?

I own a handgun as well.

Question: Which one is more accurate, a 9mm handgun or a 9mm rifle?

Question: What is YOUR definition of an assault rifle?

Did you know that the "assault weapons" which were previously banned accounted for less than 2% of all gun related crimes before the ban went into effect and did not change while the ban was in effect?

A​

​

SSAULT WEAPONS
​

“Assault weapon” is an invented term. In the firearm lexicon, there is no such thing as an “assault weapon”. The closest relative is the “assault rifle”, which is a machine gun that fires rifle cartridges.​

​

Myth: “Assault weapons” are a serious problem in the U.S.
​

Fact: ​

​

​

In 1994, before the Federal assault weapons ban, you were eleven (11) timesmore likely to be beaten to death than to be killed by an “assault weapon”.(FBI Uniform Crime Statistics, 1994)
​

Fact: ​

​

Nationally, “assault weapons” were used in 1.4% of crimes involving firearms and 0.25% of all violent crime before the enactment of any national or state “assault weapons” ban. In many major urban areas (San Antonio, Mobile, Nashville, etc.) and some entire states (Maryland, New Jersey, etc.) the rate is less than 0.1%(Gary Kleck, “Targeting Guns”, 1997, compilation of 48 metropolitan police departments from 1980-1994)
​

Fact: ​

​

Even weapons misclassified as “assault weapons” (common in the Federal and California assault weapons confiscations) are used in less than 1% of all homicides.(FBI Uniform Crime Statistics, 1993)
​

Fact: ​

​

In Virginia, no surveyed inmates had carried an assault weapon during thecommission of their last crime, despite 20% admitting that they had previously ownedsuch weapons.(Criminal Justice Research Center, Department of Criminal Justice Services, 1994)
​

Fact: ​

​

Most “assault weapons” have no more firepower or killing capacity than the average hunting rifle and “play a small role in overall violent crime”.(Philip McGuire, Handgun Control, Inc., April 7, 1989, Mohr C. "House Panel Issue: Can Gun Ban Work." New York Times. April 7, 1989. P. A-15
​

Fact: ​

​

Even the government agrees. “ . . . the weapons banned by this legislation [1994 Federal Assault Weapons ban] were used only rarely in gun crimes”(​

​

​

​

​

​

Impacts of the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban: 1994-96.”, National Institute of Justice, March 1999)
​

Myth: Nobody needs an “assault weapon”
​

Fact: ​

​

​

There are many reasons people prefer to use these firearms:
​

· ​

They are easy to operate
​

· ​

They are very reliable in outdoor conditions (backpacking, hunting, etc.)
​

· ​

They are accurate
​

· ​

They have value in many self-defense situations
​

Fact: ​

​

There are many sports in which these firearms are required:
​

· ​

Many hunters use these firearms
​

· ​

Three-gun target matches
​

· ​

Bodyguard simulations
​

Fact: ​

​

Ours is a Bill of Rights, not a Bill of Needs.
​

For the love of what ever diety you pray to at night, keep it one color. I can't handle all of that. It's pretty awkward specifically quoting with all of the font brackets.

I was going to try. But i'm not anymore. Please stick to black and white, it's way too taxing attempting to quote specific things and refute them individualy.


I'm gonna leave the large chunk of facts alone because i don't want to respond that beatiful, intricate, boasting of our color spectrum.

Let's go with the Myth: assault rifle blah blah (it's late)

Fact: There are many reasons people prefer to use these firearms:

· They are easy to operate.

That's a positive thing?

· They are very reliable in outdoor conditions (backpacking, hunting, etc.)

How much is left of an animal once an AR-15 has been used on it?

· They are accurate

As accurate as the proffessional/postal worker/angry highschool student is I would think.

· They have value in many self-defense situations

I know I live in Texas, I heard about the Branch Davidians in Waco. If the FBI storm your house, you're prepared! Yay!

Fact: There are many sports in which these firearms are required:

· Many hunters use these firearms

· Three-gun target matches

· Bodyguard simulations

Fact: Ours is a Bill of Rights, not a Bill of Needs.

You're absolutely right. Right to bear ARMS. That could mean anything couldn't it? We have to draw the line somewhere. I think this is a reasonable place to draw such a line. I like lines.

Again, it's a little late.

I might be more coherent in the morning. You take it easy now.

 

[swampkritter]

For the love of what ever diety you pray to at night, keep it one color. I can't handle all of that. It's pretty awkward specifically quoting with all of the font brackets.

I was going to try. But i'm not anymore. Please stick to black and white, it's way too taxing attempting to quote specific things and refute them individualy.


I'm gonna leave the large chunk of facts alone because i don't want to respond that beatiful, intricate, boasting of our color spectrum.

Let's go with the Myth: assault rifle blah blah (it's late)



That's a positive thing?




How much is left of an animal once an AR-15 has been used on it?



As accurate as the proffessional/postal worker/angry highschool student is I would think.



I know I live in Texas, I heard about the Branch Davidians in Waco. If the FBI storm your house, you're prepared! Yay!




You're absolutely right. Right to bear ARMS. That could mean anything couldn't it? We have to draw the line somewhere. I think this is a reasonable place to draw such a line. I like lines.

Again, it's a little late.

I might be more coherent in the morning. You take it easy now.

Yes a weapon which is easy to operate is always a good thing. Would you want to miss your shot while fumbling with a weapon which is difficult to operate? BTW, MOST firearms are easy to operate.

The AR-15 is a semi-auto version of the M-16 which uses a .223 round. This round is nothing more than a glorified varmint round with very little actual knockdown power and because it is a ligt round, it tends to tumble causing it to be easily deflected by something as miniscule as a twig. This rifle is no more deadly than any other rifle using the same round. After all, one pull of the trigger equals one bullet being fired. If you believe that the "spray & pray" method of firing any gun causes serious damage, then you truly know very little about firearms in general. In order to cause any serious damage to your target using this method, you must be standing quite close. Otherwise, you actually waste at least 90% of the rounds you fire due to recoil and muzzle climb, which throws you off target. The millitary has had all new production M-16s changed to three round bursts when the select fire lever is set on auto because they recognise the fact that the "spray & pray" method is nothing more than a waste of ammunition.

I like lines too. I don't like gun bans although I agree for the most part that felons shouldn't own firearms. I don't believe the average American should own nuclear weapons, grenade launchers, grenades, shoulder fired missiles or bazookas. These items are considered ordinance and are no good for anything other than mass destruction.

 

[swampkritter]

I don't think they really care if only assault weapons are banned, they want all guns banned and assault rifles appear to be the easiest target.

BB guns can be deadly close range and unless your target is relatively close or you have a really powerful bb gun (even more deadly) there's little chance of hitting anything you aim for.

I personally believe that banning guns isn't so much about safety as it is about control.

 

[Arthur Fonzarelli]

here are a couple slogans I like about guns...

GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE: ABORTION CLINICS DO

IF GUNS KILL PEOPLE THEN SPOONS MAKE MICHEAL MOORE FAT

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Yes a weapon which is easy to operate is always a good thing. Would you want to miss your shot while fumbling with a weapon which is difficult to operate? BTW, MOST firearms are easy to operate.

How many rounds can an AR-15 get off in a minute?

The AR-15 is a semi-auto version of the M-16 which uses a .223 round. This round is nothing more than a glorified varmint round with very little actual knockdown power and because it is a ligt round, it tends to tumble causing it to be easily deflected by something as miniscule as a twig. This rifle is no more deadly than any other rifle using the same round. After all, one pull of the trigger equals one bullet being fired. If you believe that the "spray & pray" method of firing any gun causes serious damage, then you truly know very little about firearms in general.

An AR-15 is a dangerous weapon. It is a weapon that SWAT teams use. The general public does not need to be equipped like a SWAT team.

I like lines too. I don't like gun bans although I agree for the most part that felons shouldn't own firearms. I don't believe the average American should own nuclear weapons, grenade launchers, grenades, shoulder fired missiles or bazookas. These items are considered ordinance and are no good for anything other than mass destruction.

We're still debating about other uses for assault rifles for anything other than killing things with great efficiency.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

IF GUNS KILL PEOPLE THEN SPOONS MAKE MICHEAL MOORE FAT

Spoons are not made with the idea that they will make someone fat.

Guns are specifically made to kill things.

 

[wolfessm]

assault weapons have fully aoutomatic capability. Human will is dangerous not guns. A car is dangerous if you drive it drunk. We have so many guns now the gun hate crowd is at a loss. I have enough gun related things that my family 250 years from now will still have plenty without needing to ever buy anything again. There are 80 million gun owners in America. High capacity magazines are flying off the shelves so fast dealers cant keep enough in stock. If your a loader like me who cares if you cant buy ammo. I make my own. Gun shows are doing great. Crime has gone down because of carry permits. Maybe its because criminals dont like to get shot? The NRA is super powerful and by the time another Clinton gets in office it will be way to late. Its a dead issue so go and try something else because the anti-gun crowd failed miserably. Have a wonderful day i know i will. P.S. Thank you Ruger for the wonderful mini-14 i have eight of them and two of your highly accurate Ruger #1s. Thanks again for your quality firearms.

 

[Kyle]

P.S. Thank you Ruger for the wonderful mini-14 i have eight of them and two of your highly accurate Ruger #1s. Thanks again for your quality firearms.

somehow i don't imagine Ruger visiting this debate forum. :doh

:mrgreen:

 

[swampkritter]

How many rounds can an AR-15 get off in a minute?.

That depends on how fast an individual can pull the trigger. In other words, no faster than any other semi-auto rifle. One trigger pull=one bullet fired.

An AR-15 is a dangerous weapon. It is a weapon that SWAT teams use. The general public does not need to be equipped like a SWAT team.?.

Wrong. Swat teams use the M-16, which is a FULL-AUTO weapon.

We're still debating about other uses for assault rifles for anything other than killing things with great efficiency.

The AR-15 is a good varmint rifle and yes, some people actually use it to hunt larger game. Personally, if I was going to use a rifle for hunting deer or other big game, I would use a rifle which fires a larger caliber bullet. The AR-15, which is chambered for the .223 caliber round tends to wound more often than kill. A 30-30 or 30.06 round works much better. My weapon of choice for hunting is a Mossberg pump shotgun with a rifled slug barrel and a scope.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Wrong. Swat teams use the M-16, which is a FULL-AUTO weapon.

My uncle is on a SWAT team. Guess what he carries? An AR15. They use M16s as well, but the M16 is more of a military rifle. SWAT teams predominantly use AR15s.

The AR-15 is a good varmint rifle and yes, some people actually use it to hunt larger game. Personally, if I was going to use a rifle for hunting deer or other big game, I would use a rifle which fires a larger caliber bullet. The AR-15, which is chambered for the .223 caliber round tends to wound more often than kill. A 30-30 or 30.06 round works much better. My weapon of choice for hunting is a Mossberg pump shotgun with a rifled slug barrel and a scope.

That sounds lovely. I personally like turning defensless animals into a fine pink mist.

 

[Kyle]

I personally like turning defensless animals into a fine pink mist.

finally, we have something in common :lol:

Also, Gandhi is correct about the AR-15.

 

[swampkritter]

My uncle is on a SWAT team. Guess what he carries? An AR15. They use M16s as well, but the M16 is more of a military rifle. SWAT teams predominantly use AR15s.

For some reason, I do not believe you. Could it be because I know better? SWAT teams nationwide use the M-16.

That sounds lovely. I personally like turning defensless animals into a fine pink mist.

Obviously you know nothing about firearms. My suggestion to you is to actually do some research.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

For some reason, I do not believe you. Could it be because I know better? SWAT teams nationwide use the M-16.

Do I have some sort of reputation for lying or fallicies?

This is from my uncle, a sergeantwith the Mansfield, Texas police department. He is also on the SWAT team. At my graduation yesterday, I asked him, "On the SWAT team, what kind of assault rifles do you use? AR15... M16...?" He told me that for entry they use an AR15 or an M4. For containment they use alot of things including an M16. He also told me that most SWAT teams were moving more towards the AR15 over the M4.

He also had this to say about assault rifles. "They're only good for war, and causing trouble."

That sounds lovely. I personally like turning defensless animals into a fine pink mist.

Obviously you know nothing about firearms. My suggestion to you is to actually do some research.

:moon:

I hate baby animals. They make me sick. When I see one I just can't help but think, "Man I want you dead. I want to shoot you between your adorable little eyes and watch you brain ooze out the entry wound."

 

[Blackflagx]

Well, here are my thoughts. I dont like guns at all. They are only good for death and destruction. However, we have a problem. The state is armed to the teeth with these guns. The problem is, if you ban guns from the public, and keep them for the state, you are welcoming state tyrany with open arms. Nothing is then stopping the state from abusing their power because they dont have to worry about armed resistance. I feel that, until the state is unarmed, all guns must be available to the general public.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

I agree with you Blackflagx, but being the Gandhi fan that I am, I would never advocate a violent protest/resistance. When a tyrannical government opposes tyrannical citizens, one way or another a tyrant wins.

 

[LaMidRighter]

Just a quick thought here, if a criminal with a gun has the intent to harm, and you are armed, what then should your logical response be.
1) defend yourself by using that gun
2) pretend that the criminal does not exist
3) debate the merits of why he should deflate the situation
4) turn the other cheek
5)run
Now, to ask another question, if you are not armed, what do you do.
1) run and hope you can beat out the bullet
2) plead for your life
3) pray
4) Lose
5) all of the above.
This is the ultimate "use" for a gun, since it is insisted on by the left to justify this right. We as gun supporters/owners do not take any joy out of possibly having to use them in that situation but are ready to if necessary. And I have also hear the argument that "guns are designed for killing, that is their purpose" actually, and you can call this semantics, but guns are designed to ignite an explosive powder and send a projectile down the barrell, that is their intended purpose to get technical, what the person on the "friendly" end of it does is their choosing(for good and bad). I have also seen semantics used by the left and in fact this very page about the comma in the bill of rights. The comma if we really get into it would denote a second thought, basically, to break it down it states that we have the right to form a militia for defense, the government will not infringe on gun ownership. Simple? :2brickwal No? :hammer: :2usflag:

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Okay... I really don't like handguns, but I don't have a problem with handguns being legal, even though those guns have the most murders/fatalities attached to them. I don't see your little hypothetical situation using an ASSAULT RIFLE.

Ohh, and I couldn't care less about any god damn commas.

 

[LaMidRighter]

What I am getting at with the comma statement is that most anti-gun lobbyists and their sympathisers try to use the "militia only" argument towards the second amendment, the comma is signifigant as it seperates the sentence into two seperate philosophies. From a technical standpoint a militia is a citizen based defense unit, so for the militia to own guns, wouldn't it make sense that the individuals in that unit would have to provide said arms.
I was using the handgun example as a basic argument, but what I am getting at is this, all guns perform the same task, to fire a projectile from a barrell using a propulsive charge. Whether or not the gun can fire one round per second or burst fire or even 10 rps it only takes one well placed hit to end a situation, problem is, sometimes you have more than one hit to make as in the case of Swampkritter if I remember correctly. I subscribe to the saying, "it's better to have a firearm and not need it than to need it and not have it".

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

I was using the handgun example as a basic argument, but what I am getting at is this, all guns perform the same task, to fire a projectile from a barrell using a propulsive charge.

...that is meant to kill something.

Whether or not the gun can fire one round per second or burst fire or even 10 rps it only takes one well placed hit to end a situation, problem is, sometimes you have more than one hit to make as in the case of Swampkritter if I remember correctly. I subscribe to the saying, "it's better to have a firearm and not need it than to need it and not have it".

Swampkritter's reason seems a little excessive. I think stray, rabid, dogs can be killed with a handgun if they must be killed at all(BB guns, airsoft, paint ball, electric fences). As you said, all it takes is one well placed shot, so use a handgun. Practice shooting cans until you get really good, and use a handgun(if you must kill them). As for the need to shoot many things at one time: If a stray dog sees another dog get his brains blown out the back of his wittle puppy head, chances are he's gonna reconsider. It's instict. Kind of like when shooting at birds you don't shoot the one at the front of the V as that will scare the others off. You work your way in from the sides. I'm saying shoot at the center, in the case of multiple targets. If you're facing mutliple human targets, maybe you need to rethink your life.

I'm sayingI don't think that there is a legitimate, practical use for a citizens owning assault rifles.

 

[LaMidRighter]

...that is meant to kill something.

That all depends on the intent of the shooter, unless you think that shooting clay pigeons, junker cars, cans, and other refuse is murder, then I would condede your point.

Swampkritter's reason seems a little excessive. I think stray, rabid, dogs can be killed with a handgun if they must be killed at all(BB guns, airsoft, paint ball, electric fences). As you said, all it takes is one well placed shot, so use a handgun.

The other members already explained that isn't always a practical solution

Practice shooting cans until you get really good, and use a handgun(if you must kill them).

Cans don't move.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

That all depends on the intent of the shooter, unless you think that shooting clay pigeons, junker cars, cans, and other refuse is murder, then I would condede your point.

A guns sole purpose is to be a weapon. Yes? I don't know how you can disagree with that. It's not like when gunpowder was being toyed with the inventor was like, "you know we could get alot of clay pigeons with this stuff ehh?" No. It's a weapon. Not a fun maker/weapon. It's a weapon. Especially an ASSAULT WEAPON. Who shoots pigeons with an assault rifle. Someone who can't read. That's who.

The other members already explained that isn't always a practical solution.

I don't know if I it's that I don't understand your statement or don't remember what you are referring to. Refresh my memory for me?

Cans don't move.

Throw them. Go to the arcade and play Jurassic Park and Area 51. It's about 50 cents, and it's loads of fun. That's actually cheaper than the cans depending on if you're a gourmet soup kind of guy or not.