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assault weapons

C.J.

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and btw, you suggested the 10-15 shot Glock.

Question, if "assault weapons" only had a five round magazine would that satisfy you?
 

Gandhi>Bush

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Depends on the calibur of bullet.

Personally, I think any gun that get through a police officers vest should be expensive and a lengthy process of attaining... with like tracking bugs in the gun and your name engraved in the bullets...
 

C.J.

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Gandhi>Bush said:
I'm talking about being more effective with your handgun rather than using a assault rifle to frag the dogs.

I know it wasn't you, it was swampkritter, but I was just going with the argument.
Actually I am a pistol shooter first, and am a former competitive pistol shooter (Army), and a former State Trooper (Ret). I do fail to see the difference in one shot kills from any type weapon. Large capacity magazine merely reduce the number of magazine replacements, and a competent shooter can swap them in 2-3 seconds anyhow.
 

C.J.

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Gandhi>Bush said:
Depends on the calibur of bullet.

Personally, I think any gun that get through a police officers vest should be expensive and a lengthy process of attaining... with like tracking bugs in the gun and your name engraved in the bullets...
Depends on the vest as far as what will penetrate it. More than a majority of so called "assault weapons" will not usually penetrate most vests, whereas most deer rifles will.

Additionally I have no problem with the states setting reasonable criteria for firearms ownership, but have a large problem with the feds doing so.

Making acquisition expensive kinda discriminates on those not so well off doesn't it? Are you suggesting that violent crime is a poor mans sport, and only the rich should be able to defend themselves?
 

Gandhi>Bush

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You don't see the difference between a... let's say Desert Eagle, and a... .22?

Proper placement can meand death even in the case of a .22, but a Desert Eagle could probably tear limbs off. There is a remarkable difference.
 

C.J.

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Gandhi>Bush said:
You don't see the difference between a... let's say Desert Eagle, and a... .22?

Proper placement can meand death even in the case of a .22, but a Desert Eagle could probably tear limbs off. There is a remarkable difference.
That's not what I said. I said "I do fail to see the difference in one shot kills from any type weapon.

Certainly different calibers and loadings can do more or less than others, which was not what I was commenting on. Since you brought it up though, in a self defense situation, one does not usually "shoot to kill," not even police officers are trained to do this. One shoots to stop the offender usually center mass, which many times does kill, but that wasn't the objective. Even if the result is a limb torn off and not death, as long as the offender is stopped the objective is met.
 

Gandhi>Bush

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But if the objective can be met with a guarantee of not killing someone, isn't that more favorable?
 

IndependentTexan

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show me where in the U.S. there are more saved lives with guns than deaths by accidental, and intended gun killings....i bet you won't find it...and no NRA and republican sites dont count
 

C.J.

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Gandhi>Bush said:
But if the objective can be met with a guarantee of not killing someone, isn't that more favorable?
Sure it would be more favorable. Can you tell me who can guarantee that meeting deadly force with less than deadly force will always result in a favorable outcome for the good guy? Rememer though, when you try to do this, that a bad guy attacking with deadly force doesn't mean he is necessarily using a firearm.
 

C.J.

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C.T. said:
I don't believe I mentioned anything concerning saved lives, it's impossible to count bodies if they aren't there to count. If you are asking about defensive gun uses (DGU's), you may want to review studies on the issues. I don't accept NRA sources any more than I accept VPC data, and I don't visit Republican sites.

Tell you what though, how about I use a Democrat source to show GGU's?

"Guns and Crime: Handgun Victimization, Firearm Self-Defense, and Firearm Theft"; the study was done by the U.S. Department of Justice, Office of Justice Programs, Bureau of Justice Statistics durring the Clinton administration. Surely you are familiar with Philip J. Cook and Jens Ludwig?

It showed approximately 108,000 DGU's per year, and this number was using data only from those who originally reported it.

http://www.ncjrs.org/txtfiles/165476.txt

Now you can go look at the justifiable homicides by both the police and civilians at the Bureau of Justice Statistics.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/d_justifyreason.htm as well as the charts link at the bottom of the page or at http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/justifyage.gif

You seem to be either relating DGU's to a body count, and not acknowledging the fact that many/most times the presence, not the actual killing of someone is an important factor in stopping a violent crime, possibly a murder.
I AM INCREDIBLY SORRY. I MEANT TO HIT THE QUOTE BUTTON I HIT THE EDIT BUTTON. MANY APOLOGIES.

JUST READ THE QUOTE THAT'S WHAT C.J. SAID.

SO SORRY!!

:3oops:

:3oops:

-- Gandhi>Bush
 
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swampkritter

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Arch Enemy said:
You really need a gun with 30 bullets?

How many dogs are you talking about here.. I'd imagine, that dogs attack one infront of the other (faster ones) so wouldn't, logically, 1 bullet take out at least two dogs?
15 rounds, not 30 and a 9mm bullet is not a high powered round. I have faced packs as large as six and usually end up shooting at least four before the rest run off.
 

swampkritter

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Gandhi>Bush said:
Why would you kill them?

BB guns work. Airsoft guns work. Paintball those rabid little bastards so the others know what's coming.

Why do you have to use your assualt rifle to take them down?
BB guns and airsoft guns do not stop rabid animals.
 

swampkritter

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Gandhi>Bush said:
I'm talking about being more effective with your handgun rather than using a assault rifle to frag the dogs.

I know it wasn't you, it was swampkritter, but I was just going with the argument.
The rifle is more accurate than the handgun, so there is less of a chance of accidentally hitting my animals.
 

Gandhi>Bush

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Do you always shoot at dogs when your animals are in the way?
 

swampkritter

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Gandhi>Bush said:
Do you always shoot at dogs when your animals are in the way?
If a dog or other animal is attacking your livestock, you sometimes must take the shot even though there is a chance of accidentally hitting your livestock. Sometimes you must take the shot in order to attempt to save the life of the animal being attacked. This doesn't happen often, but it has happened.
 
S

sebastiansdreams

swampkritter said:
If a dog or other animal is attacking your livestock, you sometimes must take the shot even though there is a chance of accidentally hitting your livestock. Sometimes you must take the shot in order to attempt to save the life of the animal being attacked. This doesn't happen often, but it has happened.
Then why not an airfoil shot? Why the need for heavy ammunition?
 

teacher

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IndependentTexan said:
show me where in the U.S. there are more saved lives with guns than deaths by accidental, and intended gun killings....i bet you won't find it...and no NRA and republican sites dont count
There are no stats on how many crimes were averted by a gun owner simply brandishing a gun. It happened to me once and I didn't even have a gun but was reaching into my car for nunchucks and one of two said "he's getting a gun" and they split. To bad, I've always wanted to see what chucks could do to a deserving head. My four children with me at the time thought that was way cool.
 

teacher

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Besides, what does it all matter. A trained law abiding screened person (me) will only use a gun (any type I feel like) properly. If people with carry concealed permits were on those planes much discussion on this site would not be.
 

Gandhi>Bush

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Airfoil... someone's been playing too much splinter cell.

If you are concerned about the well being of your animals because they are in the way of the dog you are trying to shoot, perhaps you could get an airsoft/bb gun so just in case you're not dead-on-balls accurate, nothing is hurt.

Teacher:

If people with carry concealed permits were on those planes much discussion on this site would not be.
When Yoda talks I can decipher the reversed sentences, but for some reason I'm not as successful when it is in writing. :lol:

Besides, what does it all matter. A trained law abiding screened person (me) will only use a gun (any type I feel like) properly.
What does a trained law abidding citizen need with an assualt rifle? An assualt rifle kills things with an incredible rate of efficiency. Period.

I really haven't heard of a legitmate use for an assualt rifle.

I don't think the one country boy who has a stray dog problem has the necessity to use an assault rifle over a hand gun, etc...
 
S

sebastiansdreams

Gandhi>Bush said:
Airfoil... someone's been playing too much splinter cell.
Wow, you totally caught me. Absolutely was thinking air soft and that came right out. And the real irony is that I just finished the new one like two days ago. But hey, if it's in Splinter Cell it's gotta exist right? I mean they wouldn't make that stuff up would they? :blowup:
 

Gandhi>Bush

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That is such a sweet game ehh?

Honestly, deep down, I think stuff like that is a necessity. A neccessity I don't want to know about though. :lol:
 
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