Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007 (That didn't take long

[Sergeant Stinger1]

Re: Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007 (That didn't take

You know, I have a big problem with the debate on this subject. Want to know why? People are debating about whether sporting purposes should or should not be considered in giving citizens the PRIVILEGE of owning a gun. However, owning a gun is not a PRIVILEGE. It is an INALIENABLE RIGHT, and the government is NOT ALLOWED to, in any way, attempt to turn it into a PRIVILEGE (Read the 2nd Amendment in its entirety - Our forefathers were not afraid of criminals, but of despotism).

Also, if this passes, this will no longer be America. This will be yet another step on the road to a dictatorship, the prevention of which is one of the main purposes of the 2nd Amendment.

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I have a problem with any weapon and assult weapons no matter how they are described being avalible to anyone that has the money to mail order them from another country. All my weapons are registered and I would guess yours are too.
Honest law abiding people like us need to pay our NRA dues and ALSO send them another charity check to help us.

 

[danarhea]

Re: Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007 (That didn't take

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I have a problem with any weapon and assult weapons no matter how they are described being avalible to anyone that has the money to mail order them from another country. All my weapons are registered and I would guess yours are too.
Honest law abiding people like us need to pay our NRA dues and ALSO send them another charity check to help us.

Actually, I quit the NRA, mainly due to the grandstanding of Charlton Heston, who did things quite inappropriate (like purposely hold a gun rally a few blocks away from the funeral of a child who was killed by one).

However, before that, I was pretty much a lifelong member, and the NRA still does a lot of good things, like gun safety courses (I took one of those when I was in the Boy Scouts).

1) Although I did register all of my firearms, I do have a problem with the law on that. Registration means that, should a dictator take over, he knows where to confiscate the guns. However, I am a law abiding citizen, so I must obey the law, as bad as it is. Criminals don't register their arms, do they? Why should I have the government decide whether or not I should be allowed to protect myself from them? On registration, we disagree.

2) Another point where I disagree with you is what kind of firearm I should be allowed to own. If criminals possess semiautomatic weapons, then I also need at least one semiautomatic weapon as an equalizer. We cannot rely on the police if someone breaks in intent on stealing what we have, or even worse, killing us. Typical police response times are long, and the window of opportunity to protect ourselves is short. I own 2 semiautomatic rifles and one semiautomatic pistol, among other firearms. I do not intend to give them up, thus giving a criminal a leg up on me. The purpose of these weapons, of course is to kill, and I want to be able to kill if I have to. The criminal is not going to give it a second thought, so why should I, unless I do not mind the possibility of being dead? Among life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, life is the most important, and the government has no business regulating that (or the other 2 for that matter).

Again, gun ownership is an inalienable right, as defined in the Constitution, not a privilege.

 

[BubbaBob]

Re: Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007 (That didn't take

However I think people like Goobie should meet people like me half way and come to agreement when it comes to what sort of weapons should be allowed into the hands of citizens.

So...you propose that it is OK to PARTIALY ignore the second amendment, but not TOTALLY.

There's logic for you.

BubbaBob

 

[Goobieman]

Re: Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007 (That didn't take

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I have a problem with any weapon and assult weapons no matter how they are described being avalible to anyone that has the money to mail order them from another country.

You stated that before. Let me repeat myself:
It is ILLEGAL to do this. It violates FEDERAL law.

All my weapons are registered and I would guess yours are too.

None of mine are, and none of them ever will be.
Registration is an infringement of the right to arms.

 

[RightOfCenter]

Re: Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007 (That didn't take

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Sad to hear that the kids that you know of are what YOU called "retards." However that still does not make the kids in my area retards.
You need to modernize and look beyond your nose and area.

So, everyone that comes out of your school is smart huh? I highly doubt that. How can you not have noticed the state of the public school system in America? No one wants to learn

FACT: You don't know what you are talking about: You don't know me so how can you say that Madison is smarter than me?

Madison was a driving force behind the foundation of one of the worlds first Representative Democracies. What have you done?

And how would you know the attitude of most high school students?

Because up until I graduated last year I was a high school student.

Your really talking out of your hat.
The great part of this country is that right or wrong we both can state our opinions.

Yes, and I can say I know more about astrophysics than Steven Hawking, but it just isn't true.

 

[Goobieman]

Re: Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007 (That didn't take

So, everyone that comes out of your school is smart huh? I highly doubt that. How can you not have noticed the state of the public school system in America? No one wants to learn

Madison was a driving force behind the foundation of one of the worlds first Representative Democracies. What have you done?

Because up until I graduated last year I was a high school student.

Yes, and I can say I know more about astrophysics than Steven Hawking, but it just isn't true.

What you're msising here is that today's HS grad has neither the personal or professional experience, nor the political or philisophical or ideological education of the Founding Fathers. If you were to get 1 in 20 HS grad to tell you who Locke and Hume and MIll and Hobbes were - must less desceibe what they wrote - I'd be flabbergasted.

This leaves alone the entire idea of how all that is applicable to creating a government.

 

[RightOfCenter]

Re: Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007 (That didn't take

What you're msising here is that today's HS grad has neither the personal or professional experience, nor the political or philisophical or ideological education of the Founding Fathers. If you were to get 1 in 20 HS grad to tell you who Locke and Hume and MIll and Hobbes were - must less desceibe what they wrote - I'd be flabbergasted.

This leaves alone the entire idea of how all that is applicable to creating a government.

And ditto to this. I'm fairly sure the average high school student probably has more knowledge of the physical sciences than our founding fathers, but only a very few could compare to them when it comes to political and philosphical knowledge, as well as the ability to reason.

 

[Sergeant Stinger1]

Re: Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007 (That didn't take

So, everyone that comes out of your school is smart huh? I highly doubt that. How can you not have noticed the state of the public school system in America? No one wants to learn


Madison was a driving force behind the foundation of one of the worlds first Representative Democracies. What have you done?

Because up until I graduated last year I was a high school student.



Yes, and I can say I know more about astrophysics than Steven Hawking, but it just isn't true.

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Sorry, I didn't realise you were a kid. Most kids like you don't really need anything more than a HS education because they alwready know everything.:roll:

 

[Doremus Jessup]

Re: Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007 (That didn't take

What are the chances that W will veto?

Probably not likely, as all of those *****s are on the same team. What will the NRA have to say about all of their support for him? I guess we should just kiss the Constitution good-bye. :shock:

 

[Sergeant Stinger1]

Re: Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007 (That didn't take

You stated that before. Let me repeat myself:
It is ILLEGAL to do this. It violates FEDERAL law.


None of mine are, and none of them ever will be.
Registration is an infringement of the right to arms.

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But it is the law. I don't think good or bad that we should be chosing which laws we will obey and which ones we will not obey. That makes us equal to the ones buying these weapons illegaly.
With that said, I have to say that I do understand your reason for thinking that way.

 

[RightOfCenter]

Re: Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007 (That didn't take

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Sorry, I didn't realise you were a kid. Most kids like you don't really need anything more than a HS education because they alwready know everything.:roll:

Ouch, sarcasm. Way to dodge the debate. I realize I don't know everything, hence why I am in college studying political science and am trying to learn everything, quite the noble goal, yes? And being fresh out of the public education system, I probably know more about student attitudes than you do.

 

[Doremus Jessup]

Re: Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007 (That didn't take

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But it is the law. I don't think good or bad that we should be chosing which laws we will obey and which ones we will not obey. That makes us equal to the ones buying these weapons illegaly.
With that said, I have to say that I do understand your reason for thinking that way.

There is no federal law that requires registration of firearms.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Re: Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007 (That didn't take

It was silly enough the first time around.

 

[Sergeant Stinger1]

Re: Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007 (That didn't take

Ouch, sarcasm. Way to dodge the debate. I realize I don't know everything, hence why I am in college studying political science and am trying to learn everything, quite the noble goal, yes? And being fresh out of the public education system, I probably know more about student attitudes than you do.

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Just a few things that you have said:
1- No one wants to learn in HS.
2- D's get degrees and that is the attitude of most HS students.
3- I suggest you do some research on how many f $#7^&& ing retards come out of HS.
SO! Its only the OTHER students that don't want to learn, the other students poor attitudes and the other students are retards.
Funny how its always the other guy!
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"I am fairly sure that the average HS student probably knows more about political science then our founding fathers."
Which is it! Are the average HS students smart or retards?
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Sorry but I still think that your local HS is in the lower portion of the smart kids.
With that said, I am glad that you are going to college. That is the first step to a better future for you. And I really wish you the best.
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BTW: Sorry, but I just couldn't resist saying that kids think they know everything. Nothing personal.
I have had a sign on my fridge that says:
When you get to be a teenager you will then think that we parents are dumb but you know everything. Its ok! Its part of growing up. But remember, parents do not get dumber as they age they get smarter.
You will also start saying that we parents just don't understand.
You will think that we were born 35+ years old and never went through anything that you are going through.
You will start saying that we are old fashioned and our clothes are old fashioned too.
When you get to be a parent your kids will be saying the same thing about you. Feel free to ask for this poster when you kids become teenagers.
Funny how many times I had to point to that poster and they got a big kick out of it.

 

[Sergeant Stinger1]

Re: Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007 (That didn't take

There is no federal law that requires registration of firearms.

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Isn't the federal papers you have to fill out to purchase a gun a law? I really don't know but I will take your word for it. I know that thats the only way to legaly purchase one.
I know I have to register them when I purchase them and then it has to be approved by my local town police chief. Depending on who the chief is at the time, hand guns are not usually a given. Many with a federal permit to carry are refused by their local police chief.
Now every time I want to buy or sell any gun it has to be through a dealer.
One of the gun stores I used to deal with had a rubber tire tank that they drove on the streets. It was approved and regestered with no modification except for all the lights and seat belts that had to be put in for the state inspection.
This tank really made people stop and take a second look.

 

[Doremus Jessup]

Re: Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007 (That didn't take

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Isn't the federal papers you have to fill out to purchase a gun a law? I really don't know but I will take your word for it. I know that thats the only way to legaly purchase one.
I know I have to register them when I purchase them and then it has to be approved by my local town police chief. Depending on who the chief is at the time, hand guns are not usually a given. Many with a federal permit to carry are refused by their local police chief.
Now every time I want to buy or sell any gun it has to be through a dealer.
One of the gun stores I used to deal with had a rubber tire tank that they drove on the streets. It was approved and regestered with no modification except for all the lights and seat belts that had to be put in for the state inspection.
This tank really made people stop and take a second look.

Yes, you have to take a background check that goes through both the feds and your local sheriff when you buy a gun from a dealer, but not if it is a private sale. There may be certain restrictions in your state or city, but generally you can sell or buy a gun through the classified section of a newspaper. The dealer makes a record of the guns he sold, but I believe the record is destroyed after a certain time has passed, so there is no registration roll or anything of that nature.

I didn't know that there was a federal permit (law enforcement?), just a federal dealer's license.

As for the "rubber tire tank" it is probably not armed, just a vehicle. That is legal also.



Edit: Yes, technically I suppose it is a law that you have to pass a background check.

 

[RightOfCenter]

Re: Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007 (That didn't take

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Just a few things that you have said:
1- No one wants to learn in HS.

Alright, most don't want to learn in high school.

2- D's get degrees and that is the attitude of most HS students.

This is true.

3- I suggest you do some research on how many f $#7^&& ing retards come out of HS.

I suggest you compare test scores of students in the United States to other countries around the world.

SO! Its only the OTHER students that don't want to learn, the other students poor attitudes and the other students are retards.
Funny how its always the other guy!

Alright, most students have poor attitudes and don't want to learn. I've been there, I've experienced it. Students who actually care are the exception, not the rule. And even if most students aren't complete morons, only 1 in a million could compare to any of our founding fathers as far as natural intellect goes.

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"I am fairly sure that the average HS student probably knows more about political science then our founding fathers."
Which is it! Are the average HS students smart or retards?

Where did I say this? Complete misquote and lie. You can't just make things up in a debate.

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Sorry but I still think that your local HS is in the lower portion of the smart kids.

You are probably one of the seven people in the United States who actually has faith in public education.

With that said, I am glad that you are going to college. That is the first step to a better future for you. And I really wish you the best.

Thanks.
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BTW: Sorry, but I just couldn't resist saying that kids think they know everything. Nothing personal.
I have had a sign on my fridge that says:
When you get to be a teenager you will then think that we parents are dumb but you know everything. Its ok! Its part of growing up. But remember, parents do not get dumber as they age they get smarter.
You will also start saying that we parents just don't understand.
You will think that we were born 35+ years old and never went through anything that you are going through.
You will start saying that we are old fashioned and our clothes are old fashioned too.
When you get to be a parent your kids will be saying the same thing about you. Feel free to ask for this poster when you kids become teenagers.
Funny how many times I had to point to that poster and they got a big kick out of it.[/QUOTE]

Sounds like something my mom would say.

 

[Goobieman]

Re: Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007 (That didn't take

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But it is the law. I don't think good or bad that we should be chosing which laws we will obey and which ones we will not obey. That makes us equal to the ones buying these weapons illegaly.
With that said, I have to say that I do understand your reason for thinking that way.

Its not the law where I live.
And I won't live anywhere that it is.

 

[Goobieman]

Re: Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007 (That didn't take

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Isn't the federal papers you have to fill out to purchase a gun a law? I really don't know but I will take your word for it. I know that thats the only way to legaly purchase one.

Yes. But that's not registration.

I know I have to register them when I purchase them and then it has to be approved by my local town police chief. Depending on who the chief is at the time, hand guns are not usually a given. Many with a federal permit to carry are refused by their local police chief.

There is no federal permit to carry.

 

[Sergeant Stinger1]

Re: Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007 (That didn't take

Yes, you have to take a background check that goes through both the feds and your local sheriff when you buy a gun from a dealer, but not if it is a private sale. There may be certain restrictions in your state or city, but generally you can sell or buy a gun through the classified section of a newspaper. The dealer makes a record of the guns he sold, but I believe the record is destroyed after a certain time has passed, so there is no registration roll or anything of that nature.

I didn't know that there was a federal permit (law enforcement?), just a federal dealer's license.

As for the "rubber tire tank" it is probably not armed, just a vehicle. That is legal also.



Edit: Yes, technically I suppose it is a law that you have to pass a background check.

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The state I am in and the surrounding states do not allow private sales of any guns nor any advertising of them in local newspapers.
When I or any one else buys or sells a gun it has to be done through a dealer only so the background of the buyer can be checked. That is a PITA and we also have to pay a fee to the gun dealer.
My understanding is that this is the case in most all of the U.S.A. because I hear people from many states complaining that they cannot go to a gun show and take the gun home with them.
I guess its that 7? day background check law that stops any quick and private sales now.

 

[Goobieman]

Re: Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007 (That didn't take

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The state I am in and the surrounding states do not allow private sales of any guns nor any advertising of them in local newspapers.

What state do you live in?

My understanding is that this is the case in most all of the U.S.A. because I hear people from many states complaining that they cannot go to a gun show and take the gun home with them.

It is not. Few, if any, states require that private transfers go through a dealer.

 

[Sergeant Stinger1]

Re: Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007 (That didn't take

What state do you live in?
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Rhode Island. Home of the biggest crooked Democrats in the U.S.A.
It is not. Few, if any, states require that private transfers go through a dealer.

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To make sure I just made a few calls to verify what I alwready know from experience buying and selling firearms and found out for sure that no firearms can be bought or sold here in R.I. unless it is done through a dealer.
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Here is the Federal Law pertaining to privale sales:
Sales between indivuals: A indivdual who does not possess a federal firearms license may not sell to a resident of another state without first transferring the firearm to a dealer in the purchasers state. Fire arms purchased by bequest or interstate succession are exemp from those sections of the law which forbid the transfer, sale, and delivery or transportation of firearms into another state other that the transferors state of residence.
WHATEVER that means.
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Some other interesting articles:
The Federal Assult Weapons Ban was a provision of the Violent Crimes Control and law Enforcement Act of 1994. A federal law of the United States that included a provision on the sale of semi-automatic "asault weapons" manufactured after the bans enactment. A 10 year ban was enacted by congress but the ban expired in 2004.
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The term of a assult weapon:
Select-fire (capable of semi- or fully- automatic fire) and fire intermediate-Power rounds, which along with fully automatic pistols, provided the pre-cursor for the term "assualt weapon".
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The 2nd ammendement:
There remains much conflict as to the interpretation within the courts, largely because the Supreme Court has always refused, and continues to refuse, to hear a case where the central issue is interpreting individual vs collective rights within the contex of the second amendment and the rest of the Bill of Rights.
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The United States vs Miller(1939). The only Supreme Court case which was directly related to the issues of the 2nd Amendment at the heart of the case.
"In the absense of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a 'shotgun having a barrel less than 18" in length at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficience of a well regulated Militia, we cannot say that the second amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument."
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What state do you live in?

 

[RightOfCenter]

Re: Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007 (That didn't take

Why did you ignore my last post stinger1?

 

[Goobieman]

Re: Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007 (That didn't take

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To make sure I just made a few calls to verify what I alwready know from experience buying and selling firearms and found out for sure that no firearms can be bought or sold here in R.I. unless it is done through a dealer.

Yes, I see that.
But you also said thay our guns were registered. There is no gun registration in RI.

Here is the Federal Law pertaining to privale sales:
Sales between indivuals: A indivdual who does not possess a federal firearms license may not sell to a resident of another state without first transferring the firearm to a dealer in the purchasers state. Fire arms purchased by bequest or interstate succession are exemp from those sections of the law which forbid the transfer, sale, and delivery or transportation of firearms into another state other that the transferors state of residence.
WHATEVER that means.

This is a sale across state lines. It doesnt affect me selling to my neighbor or to anyone else in my state.

The term of a assult weapon:
Select-fire (capable of semi- or fully- automatic fire) and fire intermediate-Power rounds, which along with fully automatic pistols, provided the pre-cursor for the term "assualt weapon".

You;re describing assault rifles and submachineguns. Neither are 'assault weapons" and neither are affected by any "assault weapon" ban. Further, no "assault weapon" is full auto/select fire.

The 2nd ammendement:
There remains much conflict as to the interpretation within the courts, largely because the Supreme Court has always refused, and continues to refuse, to hear a case where the central issue is interpreting individual vs collective rights within the contex of the second amendment and the rest of the Bill of Rights.

Only partly true, see US v Miller (1939), which you cited below.

The United States vs Miller(1939). The only Supreme Court case which was directly related to the issues of the 2nd Amendment at the heart of the case.
"In the absense of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a 'shotgun having a barrel less than 18" in length at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficience of a well regulated Militia, we cannot say that the second amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument."

That the SCotUS granted Miller standing to use the 2nd asa defense indicates that the SCotUS held that the 2nd protected an individual right.
Please note that Miller mens with absolute certainty that "assault weapons" are protected by the 2nd.

What state do you live in?

Ohio.

 

[Sergeant Stinger1]

Re: Assault Weapons Ban and Law Enforcement Protection Act of 2007 (That didn't take

Yes, I see that.
But you also said thay our guns were registered. There is no gun registration in RI.
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I have to register all of my weapons with my local police dept.
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This is a sale across state lines. It doesnt affect me selling to my neighbor or to anyone else in my state.
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Wish I could do that here.
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You;re describing assault rifles and submachineguns. Neither are 'assault weapons" and neither are affected by any "assault weapon" ban. Further, no "assault weapon" is full auto/select fire.
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I wasn't describing anything. I just posted what I thought were interesting articles.
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Only partly true, see US v Miller (1939), which you cited below.


That the SCotUS granted Miller standing to use the 2nd asa defense indicates that the SCotUS held that the 2nd protected an individual right.
Please note that Miller mens with absolute certainty that "assault weapons" are protected by the 2nd.


Ohio.

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I have been there many times years ago. I had a Aunt and Uncle that lived there.