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Assailants stab, beat Christian worshippers outside of Indonesia's capital

Nice Straw Man BTW.

When you can't actually attack a position, just invent a new weak position to attack. Putting quotes around justified--nice touch.

Oh...Hmmm...I thought I spent several posts doing a pretty clear job of attacking the point. That was just a nice addition...sort of like powdered sugar on french toast...ya know? Not needed...the butter and sugar do just fine...but its always nice to have a little sprinkled powdered sugar on top.
 
Compare the two groups of extremists from both sides.

Consider the life and actions of Jesus in the Chrisian Bible to the life and actions of Muhammad in the Kuran.

Now which group of extremists is in more opposition to the examples set forth by their holy figure?

Hmmm. I can sort of see where the Muslim terrorists get their ideas. Not so much the KKK though.
 
Wow. Two Christians get beat up by Muslims and now 1.4 billion people are having the peacefulness of their religion doubted.

Two Christian priests rape children, oh they're not representative of ALL Christians! You can't blame the whole religion for the actions of a few!

Oy vey.

Let's tale a little trip down memory lane, and start from 1980 (Part 1):

Nov. 4 - Terrorists seized the U.S. Embassy in Tehran and took 66 American diplomats hostage. 13 freed, but the remaining 53 were held until their release on January 20, 1981 - 444 days - at the inauguration of President Ronald Reagan.

1980

April 30 - Terrorists took over the Iranian Embassy in London, holding 26 hostages, 2 of whom died on May 5th after being tortured. Much of the embassy was destroyed by fire.

1981
April 19 - 13 people killed, 177 injured in a terrorist attack in Davao Philippines.

May 13 - Pope John Paul II seriously wounded in assassination attempt in Rome, Italy, by terrorist Mehmet Ali Agca.

Oct. 6 - Egyptian President Anwar Sadat machine gunned dead by Islamic Jihad in Cairo for working for peace. 7 others killed, 28 wounded. The assassins are later executed.

1982

Beginning of the 8 years of terrorism in Lebanon.

July 19 - David Dodge, President of the American University in Beirut kidnapped, spends one year in captivity.

Aug. 19 - Two American citizens, Anne Van Zanten and Grace Cutler, were killed along with 6 others when the PLO bombed a Kosher restaurant in Paris, France.

Sept. 14 - Lebanon’s President Gemayel and 26 others assassinated by a massive car bomb in Beirut.

1983

Mar. 16 - 5 Marines wounded in hand grenade attack on Beirut International Airport.

April 18 - CIA’s Middle East Director, and 83 others are killed, 120 injured in truck bomb on the US Embassy in Lebanon.

Sept. 29 - Gulf Air Flight 771 is bombed, explodes killing all 166 aboard.

Oct. 23 - Simultaneous suicide truck bombs in Lebanon: 1st crashed into lobby of US Marine Corps Headquarters, 241 Marines dead, 82 seriously injured - and 2nd was French compounds killing 58 paratroopers.

Dec. 12 - US Embassy in Kuwait targeted to destroy the building with a truck bomb, attack foiled by guards and the device killed 5 people and injured 80.

1984

Moderator's Warning:
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Islam: Making a True Difference in the World - One Body at a Time
 
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Now to Part 2......:
1990

Feb. - Attack of tour bus in Egypt killing 11.

1991
Feb. 7 - Incirlik Air Base, Turkey, U.S. civilian contractor shot as he was getting into his car.

Oct. 28 - Ankara, Turkey. Victor Marwick, an American soldier serving at the Turkish-American base, Tuslog, was killed and his wife wounded in a car bomb attack.

Oct. 28 - Two car bombings killed a U.S. Air Force Sergeant and severely wounded an Egyptian diplomat in Istanbul.

Nov. 8 - Bomb destroyed part of the American University in Beirut, killing 1 and wounding 12.

1992

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Part 3..... up to 2004... but you get the idea by now:

2000

The last of the 2000 millennium attack plots fails, as the boat meant to bomb USS The Sullivans sinks.

Oct. 12 - A suicide boat exploded next to the U.S.S. Cole (guided-missile destroyer), blowing a hole 40 feet in diameter, killing 17 American sailors and injuring 39.

2001

Feb. 5 - A bomb blast in Moscow’s Byelorusskaya subway station injures 15 people.

March 28 - Bombing at bus stop in Yemen. U.S. citizens injured including a 15 year old boy from NY.

Aug. 9 - Bombing at Sbarro’s pizzeria, killed 15 and wounded over 90, 2 of which were U.S. citizens.

Sept. 11 - 4 U.S. jetliners hijacked and forced to crash into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon like missiles, and 1 crashed in Pennsylvania on the way to the Capital Building in D.C. In all, 266 people perished in the four planes, 2602 people were killed on the ground, plus 343 firefighters, and 184 people at the Pentagon. Almost 5000 injured, 500 rescue workers now have respiratory ailments. 7 buildings collapsed in NY and 23 damaged, plus 4 subway stations.

Paris embassy terrorist attack plot foiled

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Apparently, Duece missed all of that, zimmer. LOL
 
1.399 billion Muslims commit no violent crimes during their lifetime.
I think I win.
 
Of course...because beating wives, women, girls that dare to read, men who dont go to prayer, servants, basically ALL non muslims is not considered a 'crime'.
 
And you're saying that some obscure figure from 2000 years ago that might not have even existed, being a pedophile has any bearing on todays Islamic Terrorists.

So... what's wrong with Spuds statement...?

Ok then, tell me what the reasoning is for bringing the problems that the Catholic Church has faced into a discussion about Muslim intolerance toward other faiths, other than to take a cheap shot and silence dissent about Islam?

j-mac
 
Part 3..... up to 2004... but you get the idea by now:

OH...BTW...just noticed...that list doesnt include the near DAILY launches of mortar attacks into Israel.
 
1.399 billion Muslims commit no violent crimes during their lifetime.
I think I win.


What are those 1.4 Billion doing to reign in those within their faith that do?


j-mac
 
Ok then, tell me what the reasoning is for bringing the problems that the Catholic Church has faced into a discussion about Muslim intolerance toward other faiths, other than to take a cheap shot and silence dissent about Islam?

j-mac

So what seems to be going on is this: A Few radical "muslims" committ terrorist actions, and all of a sudden all Islam means terror...

By the same logic.

A few priests in the catholic molested and raped children (some still do) and so all Christianity or for arguments sake catholicism means Pedophilia.

The two words you're looking for are:

Contradiction and Hipocrisy.
 


You're generalising again.

Yes...shame on me...



Im sure this just NEVER happens...



And certainly not frequently...I mean...just because their leaders say so...and their women attest THAT it is so...



Because beating someone for allowing students to name a teddy bear...pshaw...
 
Why is it a Sudanese Muslims problem what a Saudi Muslim does?

I see...so...1.3 billion Muslims cant be ALL bad...except...Well...pretty much all of the Wahabbists...but...you cant blame one for the other. OK...but then lets not pretend it is 1.3 billion peaceful 'moderate' non violent muslims then. SO...Im guessing...a good chunk of those Indonesians...Pakistanis...Saudis...taliban, of course the Iranians... a bunch of Muslim extremists in Chechnya...a few thousand in the Philipines...

but just a few...not like...you know...a LOT...and the 'good' Muslims shouldnt be mixed in with the bad nor should they be responsible to call out the bad...so...that 1.3 billion...conservative guess...how many would YOU describe as 'moderate'? And are the moderates the ones that DONT protest when someone draws a cartoon of Muhammed? threaten to kill people over the threat of a book burning?
 
Wow. Two Christians get beat up by Muslims and now 1.4 billion people are having the peacefulness of their religion doubted.

Two Christian priests rape children, oh they're not representative of ALL Christians! You can't blame the whole religion for the actions of a few!

Don't ignore the countless examples Republic_Of_Public posted. Go back and read them. To claim this is just one instance is beyond silly.
 
So what seems to be going on is this: A Few radical "muslims" committ terrorist actions, and all of a sudden all Islam means terror...

By the same logic.

A few priests in the catholic molested and raped children (some still do) and so all Christianity or for arguments sake catholicism means Pedophilia.

The two words you're looking for are:

Contradiction and Hipocrisy.

Well plenty of that to go around in politics no doubt. But, the point I am making is that if you want to compare the Problems with the Priesthood, knowing that the Catholic Church is handling it, and making every effort to uncover, and change their perception of the past, then turn and say that they are really no different than Islam turning a blind eye, and even going as far as to use Taqiyya to cover for radicals in their midst then I would argue the true hypocrisy in this scenario lays with those making the false comparison to begin with.

j-mac
 
Why is it a Sudanese Muslims problem what a Saudi Muslim does?

Why is it fine for you to use the power of 1.4 Billion as a number to defend those, then turn and tell me they are not a monolith when it is your turn to explain why they remain silent in the face of murders bastardizing their religion?


j-mac
 
So what seems to be going on is this: A Few radical "muslims" committ terrorist actions, and all of a sudden all Islam means terror...

What do you think are, the "root" causes for people becoming terrorists?

Please, take your time
 
OH...BTW...just noticed...that list doesnt include the near DAILY launches of mortar attacks into Israel.

Vance, those are not considered terror attacks, but the Islamic method of delivering diplomatic messages.

.
 
Not at all, it merely exposes the over-simplicity of the other side.

"Most Muslims live in peace", states the maxim, "Therefore we conclude that the religion itself must be peaceful".

No.


It's only by the dint of humanity that ordinary Muslims remain well. Indeed, Mo-man himself foresaw this, hence his Koran verses which condemn Muslims who pick and choose the bits they like or who just wish to leave in disgust.


Is the death penalty for apostasy in the Qur'an? Yes it is, sweet little Rifqa - Jihad Watch

Those who wander from the way of Allah will have an awful doom. 38:26

If you refuse to fight for Allah, he will punish you with a painful doom. 48:16

But if you're willing to fight for Allah, he will provide you with lots of booty. 48:19-20



In other words, picking only the peaceful stuff - peaceful stuff mostly cancelled out by 'abrogation' anyway!

___________________________________________

War is ordained by Allah, and all Muslims must be willing to fight, whether they like it or not. 2:216


Woe unto the repudiators on that day! 77:19, 77:24, 77:28, 77:34, 77:40, 77:45, 77:49

Those who rebel by choosing this life over the next will go to hell. 79:37-39

For the hypocrites (those who claim to be an Allah-junkie but who are actually still normal) there will be a painful doom. 4:138

Those who deny Muhammad's revelations will be destroyed. 25:36

"Hell will appear plainly to the erring." 26:91

Those who doubt will soon taste Allah's doom. 38:8

Those who hear and reject Allah's revelations are sinful liars. Give them tidings of a painful doom. 45:7-8

If you believe Muhammed, Allah will forgive some of your sins and protect you from the painful doom (that he plans to torture everyone else with). 46:31

The prodigals will be owners of the Fire. 40:43

Those who bicker about Allah's revelations are filled with pride. 40:56

I am trying not to crack up here. Have you read the Bible? lol I know you said you were not a practicing Christian, but the Bible has all kinds of stuff like this in it. Why don't you see Christians doing stuff like this anymore? Is it because their religion is better? Or is it something else? Did Christians used to behave the same way? Yep they sure did. They burned witches, "purified" people, had crusades, held slaves they thought it was all okay because of their interpretation of the Bible at the time.
While Indonesia is supposed to have a secular constitution, they have a strong majority who fight to put in their religious law. They even have Sharia law courts. This kind of gross behavior could happen to any country, and come from any religion. (or non religion. Any idea can be taken to extreme)
Even today in this country as far as we have come there are still people in this country who wish that Christianity was the rule of law. (having read the Bible, that is a pretty scary idea) They would like to take a few steps back. And if they were able to take a few steps back, eventually, someone else would like to take a few more.

You take any of these archaic books and turn them into the rule of law, you're asking for trouble.
 
What do you think are, the "root" causes for people becoming terrorists?

Please, take your time

Socio-Political and Economic forces, you combine a poor, illiterate population with an extremist view and give them a common enemy, 40 years ago the communists were doing it, today you have islamists, as well as any number of separatists and political ideologue forces world wide, in all the cases, it is not the ideology that provides the motivation, it is simply a uniting factor, and then you have the nuts like Mengistu or Khomeini steer the forces in the directions they want it to go.
 
Socio-Political and Economic forces, you combine a poor, illiterate population with an extremist view and give them a common enemy, 40 years ago the communists were doing it, today you have islamists, as well as any number of separatists and political ideologue forces world wide, in all the cases, it is not the ideology that provides the motivation, it is simply a uniting factor, and then you have the nuts like Mengistu or Khomeini steer the forces in the directions they want it to go.


Nonsense.

Liberals love to talk about how America is oppressing the poor around the world – economically, environmentally, socially, militarily. Popular culture is filled with these messages. The movie Syianna is an example. A poor immigrant turns to terrorism because he has no other options. He views the U.S. as being the demon in the world. If only he were middle class, had a job, an education, and opportunities he would not blow himself up.

snip

Liberals want Americans to dole out billions of dollars to help poor (and corrupt) nations confront the problem of “global warming” which they see as being caused by fat, greedy Americans. They think that if they can knock the standard of living in the U.S. down a few notches and raise it in the Third World that terrorists will disappear because they will feel fully integrated into society and will turn away from terrorism (radical Islam actually). We have heard this myth hundreds of times over from Liberals for more than two decades but, as with most Liberals beliefs, reality is slightly different.

snip

The key is not in giving huge dollar amounts to Third World countries but towards pushing for freedom in all corners of the world… spreading democracy.

Another Liberal Myth Busted: Terrorists are Poor with Few Options | Capitol Commentary

Terrorists have higher educations and incomes than expected Although study is still limited, the evidence that there is no simple, direct line from poverty to terrorism is persuasive. Analyses of terrorist activities in the last two decades consistently reveal that individuals who support and commit terrorist acts are likely to be more highly educated and have higher incomes than others in their society.

Harvard public policy professor Alberto Abadie concluded poor countries do not experience more terrorism than wealthy countries, after he studied wealth, political liberty and other variables in relation to terrorism. He also concluded that political liberty is a better indicator than poverty of terrorist activity.

Is Terrorism's Cause Poverty?

Poor peoples situation resorting to terror activities has less to do with your so called "Socio-economic" problems than it does a lack of freedom.


j-mac
 
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