As some Democrats grow impatient with Biden, alternative voices emerge

[Slartibartfast]

I'm all about the States charting more of their own path in response to mismanagement and failure at the Federal level

Why Did The Left Fail to Employ Federalism Against Trump?

Now that the Trump Administration is over, I'm periodically (It's tough to think for any length of time when you have kids :p) reflecting back on what my expectations had been v what actually occurred. Trump was a bit more destructive to our Constitutional order than I thought, and, long term...

debatepolitics.com

It was just the references to the need to get angry that threw me :-/ we've got plenty of that already.

Motivated may have been a better word. I think what's being communicated is that liberals are realizing they need to go their own way with SCOTUS like it is and do what we can to promote civilization.

 

[Jay59]

Looks like I was wrong in that there was no history, here it is, you will see that the swing is towards blue.

View attachment 67400751

I've seen worse.

Something sort of like you said happened a while ago. It's better than many posters manage.

 

[Slartibartfast]

I've seen worse.

Something sort of like you said happened a while ago. It's better than many posters manage.

huh?

 

[cpwill]

Motivated may have been a better word. I think what's being communicated is that liberals are realizing they need to go their own way with SCOTUS like it is and do what we can to promote civilization.

I mean, the link above exposes that I'd hoped for that reaction from the election of Trump, but, if it takes losing control of the supreme Court to get the left to latch on to federalism, I'll happily take it.

If that really takes hold, then heck, this country might actually make it.

 

[Jay59]

huh?

Let's just say that if Trump had offered that as proof, the Washington Post would have counted it as two lies. This says more about the Post than about Trump but it also says that what you posted is poor support for your point.

That said, it's better than nothing.

Motivated may have been a better word. I think what's being communicated is that liberals are realizing they need to go their own way with SCOTUS like it is and do what we can to promote civilization.

I agree that progressives need to make their own way. The Supreme Court was a crutch that you leaned on for 75 years. Now you have one that actually reads the Constitution.

I mean, the link above exposes that I'd hoped for that reaction from the election of Trump, but, if it takes losing control of the supreme Court to get the left to latch on to federalism, I'll happily take it.

If that really takes hold, then heck, this country might actually make it.

What do you plan to do when Republicans take Congress and the White House?

 

[Slartibartfast]

Let's just say that if Trump had offered that as proof, the Washington Post would have counted it as two lies. This says more about the Post than about Trump but it also says that what you posted is poor support for your point.

That said, it's better than nothing.

If Trump offered a graphic from 538 as proof of a point about 538's ratings changes, it would be counted as lies?

I agree that progressives need to make their own way. The Supreme Court was a crutch that you leaned on for 75 years. Now you have one that actually reads the Constitution.

The key to the constitution is having your people be the one to interpret the constitution instead of the constitution itself which is pretty vague in a lot of ways.

 

[cpwill]

What do you plan to do when Republicans take Congress and the White House?

I guess in such a case, I would hope that they abandon their recent turn to nationalism and Central planning, and return to conservatism. It's probably too much to Hope that they will ever publicly acknowledge the extent to which they allowed members of their party to become domestic enemies of the constitution, but hopefully, as we saw in the post Nixon era, they will just quietly abandon the effort.

 

[Jay59]

If Trump offered a graphic from 538 as proof of a point about 538's ratings changes, it would be counted as lies?

If it was as weak as yours, hell yes.

The key to the constitution is having your people be the one to interpret the constitution instead of the constitution itself which is pretty vague in a lot of ways.

"[T]he right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." is not vague.

I guess in such a case, I would hope that they abandon their recent turn to nationalism and Central planning, and return to conservatism.

I cannot return to conservative. I was never there. Only the collection of radicals that post in this forum consider me such.

It's probably too much to Hope that they will ever publicly acknowledge the extent to which they allowed members of their party to become domestic enemies of the constitution, but hopefully, as we saw in the post Nixon era, they will just quietly abandon the effort.

On the contrary, they do it every time they claim Republicans don't respect the Constitution.

 

[Slartibartfast]

If it was as weak as yours, hell yes.

It appears you are the point of saying things just to say things without you feeling the need for logical consistency between your posts. Also the word infringed is quite vague as it does not define what constitutes infringement and whether the word infringement is modified by the militia clause and in what way.

The second amendment is actually quite a good example of the vagueness of that document, thank you for bringing it up.

"[T]he right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." is not vague.

It gets more vague when its attached to the militia clause, as it shows that being armed was intended for a state guided purpose, but is vague as to what it means by the word militia.

 

[Jay59]

It appears you are the point of saying things just to say things without you feeling the need for logical consistency between your posts. Also the word infringed is quite vague as it does not define what constitutes infringement and whether the word infringement is modified by the militia clause and in what way.

The second amendment is actually quite a good example of the vagueness of that document, thank you for bringing it up.

It gets more vague when its attached to the militia clause, as it shows that being armed was intended for a state guided purpose, but is vague as to what it means by the word militia.

That clarifies matters. You talk about clarity but reject it when offered.

 

[Slartibartfast]

That clarifies matters. You talk about clarity but reject it when offered.

It was never offered.

 

[Josie]

As some Democrats grow impatient with Biden, alternative voices emerge

President Biden took the stage at an Independence Day barbecue just a few hours after the latest horrific shooting to upend an American city — but at his first opportunity to address the nation in person about the Highland Park killings, he did so only obliquely.
“You all heard what happened today,” Biden said. “Things will get better still, but not without more hard work together.”
It was not until about two hours later, after singer Andy Grammer finished an acoustic version of “Give Love,” that the president returned to the stage and attempted to respond to the tragedy more fulsomely, calling for a moment of silence and decrying the spate of mass shootings. “We’ve got a lot more work to do,” Biden said, reiterating some of what he had said in a written statement earlier in the day. “We’ve got to get this under control.”
In contrast, J.B. Pritzker, Illinois’ Democratic governor, delivered a fiery response that took direct aim at those blocking gun control legislation. “If you are angry today, I’m here to tell you to be angry,” he said, seething while Biden was consoling. “I’m furious. I’m furious that yet more innocent lives were taken by gun violence.”

I would agree that we need liberals who are willing to speak the flat truth. Right now most democratic leadership is conciliatory and is stuck in 90s style politics, which isn't going to solve anything.

But he's doing a top notch job!

 

[Slartibartfast]

But he's doing a top notch job!

He could be doing more. He's too passive.

 

[noonereal]

But he's doing a top notch job!

Agree.

Problem is, he is old and lacks enthusiasm in his supporters.

 

[Jay59]

But he's doing a top notch job!

We've had worse but not often and not this century.

 

[KLATTU]

Newsome/Warren

Warren/AOC

AOC/Warren

Warren/Newsom

Bernie Sanders Senate Majority Leader

AOC Speker of the House

Yes I can ............

no love for Cacklin' Kammy?#racist

 

[Sandy Shanks]

Although I voted for our current President because the alternative was unthinkable, I am not a Democrat. Indeed, until Trump drove me out with his ludicrous, later seditious, behavior, I was a Republican for a quarter of a century. Today, I am officially a conservative Independent.

I am not fond of Democrats primarily because they can be quite stupid. For example, in 2016, young Democrats who were offended that Bernie didn't get the Democratic nomination, voted for Trump in large enough numbers in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania to give Trump the Presidency. Can anyone think of anything more stupid?

Now a number of Democrats are blaming the wrong party for inaction -- theirs!

ABC reports, "As Sen. Michael Bennet sought to encourage a small crowd of fellow Democrats not to give up the fight for abortion rights, Maryah Lauer stepped forward, bullhorn in hand, to exhort him to do more.

“Do you support ending the filibuster and expanding the court?” the 28-year-old called out from a quartet of fellow activists. “The Democrats are not doing enough.”

"The confrontation was a sign of the frustration among many Democrats after the Supreme Court's decision last month to strip women of the constitutional right to abortion. The question heading into this year's midterm elections is whether the outrage will energize Democrats to vote or leave them disillusioned and staying home."

Notwithstanding Democratic extremism such as ending the filibuster which can come back to haunt the party, packing the court, and putting abortion clinics on federal land, there is very little the Democratic Party can do in the face of the Supreme Court decision.

The crazy Democrats should be blaming the Republican Party which is responsible for the unwise decision in the first place along with a few other extremist far-right decisions with more coming. A Republican President was able to name three conservative judges which made all this possible.

But Democrats are blaming Democrats instead.

In addition, Senate Republicans along with two Democrats who think like Republicans are blocking everything our President is trying to do!

Senate Republicans will not allow meaningful gun control laws to be passed. Instead, we got a weak gun law that will do nothing to stop killers like Robert Crimo, Salvador Ramos, or Payton S. Gendron.

Senate Republicans will not allow a ban on assault rifles to be passed, the kind of weapon used in the massacres at Buffalo, Uvalde, and now Highland Park. The NRA, the proud sponsor of the Republican Party, would not be pleased with a restriction on a rifle that was designed for the military for the expressed purpose of killing people, which it does very efficiently as we all know.

Senate Republicans will not allow Roe vs. Wade to be codified into law. The religious right would be very displeased should that happen.

President Biden wants all of these things accomplished, but it is not going to happen in the near term.

So, Democrats are blaming our President. Combined with Republicans, President Biden's poll numbers are in the toilet. Because Democrats are casting blame on a Democratic President for the gridlock, these same Democrats are like to lose control of the House and Senate in November.

I guess Democrats think Republicans can do a better job.

I did say Democrats were quite stupid at times.

 

[cpwill]

On the contrary, they do it every time they claim Republicans don't respect the Constitution.

I was talking ABOUT the Republicans.

 

[Cardinal]

I guess in such a case, I would hope that they abandon their recent turn to nationalism and Central planning, and return to conservatism. It's probably too much to Hope that they will ever publicly acknowledge the extent to which they allowed members of their party to become domestic enemies of the constitution, but hopefully, as we saw in the post Nixon era, they will just quietly abandon the effort.

Which is like hoping that the meteor that just entered the atmosphere at 50,000 mph will realize the errors of its ways and turn around before it causes any real damage. Populist revolutions have an inevitable destructive end, and the full realization of its destruction must be felt before anything positive can rise out of the ashes. And we are nowhere close to that realization.

Populist revolutions have to reach a crescendo.

 

[Perotista]

As some Democrats grow impatient with Biden, alternative voices emerge

President Biden took the stage at an Independence Day barbecue just a few hours after the latest horrific shooting to upend an American city — but at his first opportunity to address the nation in person about the Highland Park killings, he did so only obliquely.
“You all heard what happened today,” Biden said. “Things will get better still, but not without more hard work together.”
It was not until about two hours later, after singer Andy Grammer finished an acoustic version of “Give Love,” that the president returned to the stage and attempted to respond to the tragedy more fulsomely, calling for a moment of silence and decrying the spate of mass shootings. “We’ve got a lot more work to do,” Biden said, reiterating some of what he had said in a written statement earlier in the day. “We’ve got to get this under control.”
In contrast, J.B. Pritzker, Illinois’ Democratic governor, delivered a fiery response that took direct aim at those blocking gun control legislation. “If you are angry today, I’m here to tell you to be angry,” he said, seething while Biden was consoling. “I’m furious. I’m furious that yet more innocent lives were taken by gun violence.”

I would agree that we need liberals who are willing to speak the flat truth. Right now most democratic leadership is conciliatory and is stuck in 90s style politics, which isn't going to solve anything.

I’ve always said the problem with mass shootings lies deep within our society, not necessarily with gun control. We had 28 mass shootings between 1900-1970 in an era without any gun control laws, we're probably fast approaching 300 since 1970. I think we need to see what has went wrong with our society which led to these mass shootings instead of a band aid approach. But be that as it may.

Biden, I think he’s trying to be something he isn’t. That’s one of his problem. He was a moderate democratic senator from Delaware, now he’s trying to be a progressive. The Democrats in congress have let him down. They’ve tried to pass a very progressive agenda without the numbers to get it accomplished. Pelosi and Schumer have been around congress for almost forever, they should have realized what was possible and what wasn’t. The failures have left the Democrats in congress looking rather inept, throw in the in-fighting between the factions, what is one to believe? After all, as the old adage goes, “Politics is the art of the possible.” What the Democrats in congress have been trying to do is the impossible. Won’t work with their numbers.

Could a more moderate, be himself Biden have accomplished more? He did get the infrastructure Bill, but only after six months of in-fighting between Democratic factions, not fighting Republicans. Recently Biden also got the bipartisan gun control legislation.

I don’t think most folks expected a lot from Biden. That he was elected as a transition president between Trump and whoever comes next. The goal, the mission, the top priority was to get rid of Trump, Biden was a safe bet to do that.

Here is Biden’s number one problem. Congress is setting the agenda for Biden. It isn’t Biden setting the agenda for congress. Every past president set the agenda and congress has tried to get the president’s agenda passed. With congress setting their own agenda, they haven’t been very successful with it. I don’t think a Biden of 20 years ago would have let this happen. But what we have isn’t that Biden.

 

[memberya2]

Nope. I think being a moderate liberal is probably the best course for the nation right now. I always have.

I think it would be best to go further left being moderate accomplishes nothing as you see with biden
hes a moderate but whats gotten done? his refusal to fight republicans doesnt wanna take a stance
or a position to try to make both sides happy at the same time im not against biden i just feel like his
strategy is not working im agreeing with you but moderates like biden havent done much i know hes
being blocked by republicans but theirs still things he could do he could cancel student loan debt right
now with a executive order he could put abortion clinics in federal land so the state cant mess with them.

 

[cpwill]

Which is like hoping that the meteor that just entered the atmosphere at 50,000 mph will realize the errors of its ways and turn around before it causes any real damage. Populist revolutions have an inevitable destructive end, and the full realization of its destruction must be felt before anything positive can rise out of the ashes. And we are nowhere close to that realization.

Populist revolutions have to reach a crescendo.

Not implausible. My hope is January 6 was that, but, we will see :-/

 

[Slartibartfast]

I think it would be best to go further left being moderate accomplishes nothing as you see with biden
hes a moderate but whats gotten done? his refusal to fight republicans doesnt wanna take a stance
or a position to try to make both sides happy at the same time im not against biden i just feel like his
strategy is not working im agreeing with you but moderates like biden havent done much i know hes
being blocked by republicans but theirs still things he could do he could cancel student loan debt right
now with a executive order he could put abortion clinics in federal land so the state cant mess with them.

I prefer moderation but realize the culture isn’t there at the moment.

 

[justabubba]

let's look at some of the weak links:

schmuck schumer. what the hell has he accomplshed - not just since he has been senate majority leader - but since he has been a member of congress????

maxine waters. really? what the hell has she ever accomplished beyond giving the appearance of self dealing incompetence staining the anything but gleaming view of democrat politicians in general, and black women democrats in particular

bennie thompson. this is going to upset many progressives, but bennie has accomplished nothing since he has been in the congress. what of substance has he - personally - accomplished as chair of the J6 committee. if it was not for liz cheney in the second chair i doubt little would have been achieved

the democrats field too many lightweights who hold office only because they have gained the support of those who direct the democratic party
these folks undermine people like bernie sanders while championing people like schmuck schumer and maxine waters
that is the problem with the party. the party itself needs a massive enema. new leadership rather than cronies who have been pulling the levers of democratic party power for decades are now called for

 

[RIP U.S. Democracy]

Explain to me how the problem is anything other than not enough progressive Senators? Every single problem can be distilled to that one point.

It's not just policy. More Democrats want to see Biden stand up for democracy and call out the Republican Party for what they are -- a white supremacist fascist party that is dangerous to the future of this country.

Until Biden starts speaking in those stark, alarmist terms and makes all Americans aware of the stakes this November, many Democrats are not going to be satisfied with his performance. And that includes me.