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Arod Hits 600

Redress

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Congratz to him, 7th player ever.
 

VanceMack

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Like EVERYONE wasnt using roids since the mid 80s...including pitchers...

No...I'm not an A-Rod fan. But the whole steroid thing makes me laugh.
 

The Giant Noodle

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I will also say that he is / was filled with roids. It doesnt count. He is almost as bad as that ass-clown Sammy Sosa.
 

Middleground

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Like EVERYONE wasnt using roids since the mid 80s...including pitchers...

No...I'm not an A-Rod fan. But the whole steroid thing makes me laugh.
Why?

Should A-Rod stand right besides Ruth and Aaron?
 

LaMidRighter

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Why?

Should A-Rod stand right besides Ruth and Aaron?
I'd rather Arod represent the top of the HR hill than Barry Bonds. At least Rodriguez admitted it albeit a little late.
 

Redress

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Should A-Rod stand right besides Ruth and Aaron?
Of course not. He is not even worthy of shining Griffey's shoes. However, even with steroids, it is still an accomplishment to hit 600. Strength alone is not enough. There are plenty of reasons to condemn Arod and Bonds and Sosa(especially Bonds, the other two where at least kinda likable as people), and to say they are not at the same level as those who did not use steroids, but that does not mean they did not accomplish something pretty exceptional. It's sad, because I think all three of those would have been remembered as great players, and now will be seen as good players who cheated.
 

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Of course not. He is not even worthy of shining Griffey's shoes. However, even with steroids, it is still an accomplishment to hit 600. Strength alone is not enough. There are plenty of reasons to condemn Arod and Bonds and Sosa(especially Bonds, the other two where at least kinda likable as people), and to say they are not at the same level as those who did not use steroids, but that does not mean they did not accomplish something pretty exceptional. It's sad, because I think all three of those would have been remembered as great players, and now will be seen as good players who cheated.
I agree Redress, the sad thing is Arod never needed the steroids to begin with and his legacy will be needlessly tarnished forever because of it. I will also say no one will ever replace Aaron or the Babe in baseball lore, but Bonds has to be knocked off the top of the hill as soon as possible. It's a damn shame too considering Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, and his father Bobby were his mentors, kind of sucks that he learned the game from them but not the class.
 

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Of course not. He is not even worthy of shining Griffey's shoes. However, even with steroids, it is still an accomplishment to hit 600. Strength alone is not enough. There are plenty of reasons to condemn Arod and Bonds and Sosa(especially Bonds, the other two where at least kinda likable as people), and to say they are not at the same level as those who did not use steroids, but that does not mean they did not accomplish something pretty exceptional. It's sad, because I think all three of those would have been remembered as great players, and now will be seen as good players who cheated.
I agree that all of the cheaters would have reached some level of greatness without the use of steroids. One must have natural talent to do so. But I simply cannot get excited over anyone who decided to take that route. I'm confident that A-Rod would have never reached 600 without it, but 500 might have been possible. There's a lot of blame to go around (including the league itself), but ultimately, he made the decision to enhance all by himself. I can't cheer for that.
 

Redress

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OK, new article, and absolutely fascinating reading: Joe Posnanski » Posts What If We Are Wrong Again About Steroids? «

There are some flaws in the logic here, but the history lesson is fascinating. Just to give one example of both, let me quote two small bits:

Kauffman Stadium in 2002 was the easiest park in the American League to hit a home run. The fences were moved back just 10 feet. In 2004, Kauffman Stadium was the hardest park in the American League to hit a home run.
He points out that steroids “very heavily favor” building your upper body while home run power mostly comes from lower body strength. He suggests that if Barry Bonds added 20 pounds of pure muscle to his whole body, probably no more than 5 or 7 of those pounds would be lower body, and by his math equation the added power would likely be no more than 2 to 4 feet of length.
I think the contradiction contained should be clear. However, there is still some stuff on steroids, and home run hitting, and the history of baseball I never knew, and the story is well written.
 

LaMidRighter

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But Babe Ruth did it on beer and hot dogs... come on, now... :)
And the Yankees. LOL. Just razzin' ya dude but yeah Ruth/Aaron most certainly earned those honors and I agree that the current generation should forever be suspect.
 

soccerboy22

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If he wasn't wearing those ugly ass stripe uniforms I would say congrats. However since he is on the evil empire I politely say A-Rod to go suck on a baseball bat.

That being said 600 is an impressive number even if he was on the roids.
 

RightinNYC

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Steroids, Other "Drugs", and Baseball

If you're really curious about the facts, set aside some time and read that site. If you don't have the time, here's the best summary:

"There is no evidence that steroid use has altered home-run hitting and those who argue otherwise are profoundly ignorant of the statistics of home runs, the physics of baseball, and of the physiological effects of steroids."
In slightly more detail:

PEDs can affect, if anything, musculature, which in baseball translates to power. They do not, and cannot, do anything to improve hand-eye coordination, vision, ball judgement, timing, or any of the factors that go into hitting except actual power, the bat speed that determines the ball velocity and thus its travel distance.

Examinations of the actual records of major-league baseball for over a century, with an especial focus on the last 25 or so years, those now being attributed to a "steroids era", show clearly and conclusively--by a number of independent analyses by a number of independent analysts each using a different methodology--that there simply is not any power boost needing explaining: PEDs are an "answer" lacking a pertinent question. This fact has been disguised by the analytically faulty method of counting power events instead of determining their rate of occurrence in hitting, and further confounded by changes in the baseball, notably the juicing whose effects were felt in 1994 and possibly back in 1993, when the change occurred.

PED use, to whatever extent it may have existed, simply did not affect any of the performance records of major-league baseball.
Moreover, comparisons with hitters of different eras are essentially impossible. People have been using various forms of drugs for decades, and players in earlier eras faced much weaker competition. What percent of current all-stars would have been eligible to play in the majors back in the 1930's?
 
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Redress

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Steroids, Other "Drugs", and Baseball

If you're really curious about the facts, set aside some time and read that site. If you don't have the time, here's the best summary:



In slightly more detail:



Moreover, comparisons with hitters of different eras are essentially impossible. People have been using various forms of drugs for decades, and players in earlier eras faced much weaker competition. What percent of current all-stars would have been eligible to play in the majors back in the 1930's?
That is the article that the article I posted was based on. I also pointed out one of the potential flaws with it.
 

winston53660

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Meh who cares about A-rod anymore. The Rangers are 8 games ahead and it looks like the allstar curse is behind them.

Finally they have some pitchers not belly itchers. And Nolan Ryan is back
 

ludahai

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And the Yankees. LOL. Just razzin' ya dude but yeah Ruth/Aaron most certainly earned those honors and I agree that the current generation should forever be suspect.
Imagine how many dingers the Babe would have gotten if he hadn't started his career as a pitcher with the Red Sox?
 

LaMidRighter

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Imagine how many dingers the Babe would have gotten if he hadn't started his career as a pitcher with the Red Sox?
That and the shorter seasons back then, I think Aaron and Ruth may well still be at the top if they both batted in as many games as the current all time leaders do. And it's especially impressive that The Babe was an all around player, he could do equally well on either side of the ball.
 
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