army vet denied right to own gun due to ...

[Hatuey]

Murders, rapist, child molesters.....it's all the same to you. Just like getting parking tickets.

Hey look, you're making up strawman arguments. I almost thought you'd have a concise and powerful argument to make for once.

 

[Hatuey]

Agreed, the system is so messed up though that people who should remain in prison for horrendous acts get released early, and some non-violent offenders spend decades in prison. I think the whole system needs an audit to determine how to keep actual dangerous people in prison, but that will take a full audit of all legal statutes.

Says who? We could easily adopt a civilized country's justice system. Maybe Norway's or at the very least take these steps.

1. Focus on ensuring first time small crime offenders don't reoffend.
2. Separate convicts according to crimes - meaning: ensure hard criminals are not housed with non-violent criminals.
3. Remove the private corporation element to prison. Sure, give contracts for building them but ensure prisons are run by federal employees and not private companies.
4. Creating worthwhile learning programs for convicts. None of this "theater program" nonsense. Teach them something they can use once they get out.

Those 4 steps alone are just common sense to fixing the system.

 

[chuck71]

Army Vet Denied Right To Own Gun Due To 42-Year-Old Misdemeanor Drug Charge « CBS Houston



More stupidity as we go along. Just think of all the data they track about everyone now they can use to continue to deny people their rights.

:mrgreen: I was in the same boat. As a teenager I was found guilty of robbery and GTA (grand theft auto) and sentenced to 1 year probation. I had to get a waiver to join the Navy. But I've never had trouble buying guns! I think Ron can fight this if he wants to. I agree, 'More stupidity as we go along', but who is they? We, the People are THEY! We control the Government, if we would only realize it!! Monitor your Senators and House members like you would monitor your favorite football team. This country belongs to us, the People, we ARE the Government!!! The people we elect to serve in Washington, The various States, Counties, and Cities, are our SERVANTS, not our MASTERS. Again, WE are THEY! Lets act like it. Challenge them, Ron, get a good lawyer and you'll win. Peace, chuck.

 

[chuck71]

I agree this is unfair, but I think it's more unfair that a person with a drug misdemeanor in their past can't get a decent job. In both cases, the person should be able to have that record expunged after a fairly short period of time and good behaviour.

:mrgreen: Not only that, but they shouldn't have to do jail time at all for drug possession. Community service, going to classes, etc...etc.. Let's use prisons for the real bad guys.

 

[LaMidRighter]

Says who? We could easily adopt a civilized country's justice system. Maybe Norway's or at the very least take these steps.

If something has a proven track record, sure.

1. Focus on ensuring first time small crime offenders don't reoffend.

Agree here.

2. Separate convicts according to crimes - meaning: ensure hard criminals are not housed with non-violent criminals.

No problem with this, makes sense from a logical perspective.

3. Remove the private corporation element to prison. Sure, give contracts for building them but ensure prisons are run by federal employees and not private companies.

I'm still kind of reading up on this. I think states should run prisons, however with the system as is there is no efficiency, I'm speaking to the legal system more than the housing aspect.

4. Creating worthwhile learning programs for convicts. None of this "theater program" nonsense. Teach them something they can use once they get out.

No problems with this, I do believe in rehabilative skills as part of the program.

Those 4 steps alone are just common sense to fixing the system.

I have no problem with any of that. My only concern is keeping people who are truly dangerous to innocent people out of the general public with appropriate sentences. I could care less about drug offenders and petty criminals, non-violent felons, and other non threatening individuals being released early with full rights.

 

[Hatuey]

If something has a proven track record, sure.

Agree here.
No problem with this, makes sense from a logical perspective.
I'm still kind of reading up on this. I think states should run prisons, however with the system as is there is no efficiency, I'm speaking to the legal system more than the housing aspect.
No problems with this, I do believe in rehabilative skills as part of the program.

I have no problem with any of that. My only concern is keeping people who are truly dangerous to innocent people out of the general public with appropriate sentences. I could care less about drug offenders and petty criminals, non-violent felons, and other non threatening individuals being released early with full rights.

There is a solution to that issue too and some European countries have found it. It's pretty simple - Create a parole board that isn't subject to public scrutiny. Allow indefinite extensions to violent inmates. The proof is in the recidivism rate.
The Norwegian prison where inmates are treated like people | Society | The Guardian

Despite the seriousness of their crimes, however, I found that the loss of liberty was all the punishment they suffered. Cells had televisions, computers, integral showers and sanitation. Some prisoners were segregated for various reasons, but as the majority served their time – anything up to the 21-year maximum sentence (Norway has no death penalty or life sentence) – they were offered education, training and skill-building programmes. Instead of wings and landings they lived in small "pod" communities within the prison, limiting the spread of the corrosive criminal prison subculture that dominates traditionally designed prisons. The teacher explained that all prisons in Norway worked on the same principle, which he believed was the reason the country had, at less than 30%, the lowest reoffending figures in Europe and less than half the rate in the UK.

Housing all prisoners under the same roof has been proven to be a colossal failure. However, we are employing the tough on crime mentality and companies have an interest in making prisons into criminal factories. So it won't change.

 

[shrubnose]

Army Vet Denied Right To Own Gun Due To 42-Year-Old Misdemeanor Drug Charge « CBS Houston



More stupidity as we go along. Just think of all the data they track about everyone now they can use to continue to deny people their rights.

Can you give the world a 100 percent guarantee that this fine human being won't go Postal next month?

I didn't think so.

 

[PirateMk1]

Can you give the world a 100 percent guarantee that this fine human being won't go Postal next month?

I didn't think so.

Can you give us a 100% guarantee YOU wont go postal this month? I didn't think so.

 

[Tucker Case]

There is a solution to that issue too and some European countries have found it. It's pretty simple - Create a parole board that isn't subject to public scrutiny. Allow indefinite extensions to violent inmates. The proof is in the recidivism rate.
The Norwegian prison where inmates are treated like people | Society | The Guardian



Housing all prisoners under the same roof has been proven to be a colossal failure. However, we are employing the tough on crime mentality and companies have an interest in making prisons into criminal factories. So it won't change.

That is some good info. It makes so much sense I am forced to wonder why I haven't encountered these data before. You'd think it would be dominating the "war on crime" discussion.

 

[Hatuey]

That is some good info. It makes so much sense I am forced to wonder why I haven't encountered these data before. You'd think it would be dominating the "war on crime" discussion.

You can't reason with arm chair judges who want to be tough on crime. Their counterarguments are strictly about "BUT BUT RAPISTS"! Few of them know the first thing about prison and see something like having a prison library as making punishment into a vacation. They don't for a minute stop to think about the consequences of being tough on crime for the sake of punishment and pain. Some of these people even rise up and become legislators. Which is how we've ended up with a justice system which doesn't take a single social study of prisons into consideration.

These people also ensure that treatment of offenders is light years ahead in Nordic countries. Also, they, Nordic countries, have somehow managed to make what the US finds impossible: Stop most people from reoffending. So how is it they've done it? They haven't made prisons into daycares for criminals. They've basically allowed the average criminal to develop social skills and work ethics that they didn't learn outside.

 

[Thrilla]

This story shows the stupidity of both the war on drugs AND certain gun control measures.

...exactly.

I also think it speaks to a dispassionate bureaucracy.

all it takes is one person with an ounce of common sense to say " hey, this ain't right, let's take a look here and see what's up"... but, instead, we have policy... edicts from the heavens.. which allows folks to shut off their brain and muddle through the day on policy driven autopilot.

 

[Thrilla]

There is a solution to that issue too and some European countries have found it. It's pretty simple - Create a parole board that isn't subject to public scrutiny. Allow indefinite extensions to violent inmates. The proof is in the recidivism rate.
The Norwegian prison where inmates are treated like people | Society | The Guardian



Housing all prisoners under the same roof has been proven to be a colossal failure. However, we are employing the tough on crime mentality and companies have an interest in making prisons into criminal factories. So it won't change.

am I to assume you're opposed to our current prison system?.. one were folks are tossed into human warehouses and left to fester, often becoming even more hardened , bitter, hateful, and criminal?

well, that makes 2 of us, then.

on a personal note, my brother-in-law got busted with under a gram of meth.... sentenced to 11 years, served 7.
he went in as a pretty normal dude, hard worker, hard partier.. he came out as an AB.. he got caught up in prison politics ( as a matter of survival, he says).
he's back in now, he caught another case of possession... he's up for 20.
he's the kinda guy that should have been helped.. instead, he was ruined.( much of his "ruining" is on him, though... he made choices)

 

[Morrigi]

Can you give us a 100% guarantee YOU wont go postal this month? I didn't think so.

Can you give us a 100% guarantee that MY DOG won't go postal this month? I didn't think so.

 

[CRUE CAB]

Thanks for the laugh


It would actually be the 38 caliber, according to the ATF, followed by 9mm, 380 ACP, and the 25 (not 22, the 25) caliber. You obviously don't know the first thing about doing your own research.

.38? Really, when in 1978.
You have a link, or you just full of it.

 

[CRUE CAB]

Can you give the world a 100 percent guarantee that this fine human being won't go Postal next month?

I didn't think so.

To old, the Post office wont hire him.

 

[Surtr]

.38? Really, when in 1978.
You have a link, or you just full of it.

No, I use this thing called a search engine. You should try it some time, before shooting your mouth off like you're somebody.
link

You should also know that criminals aren't going to use top of the line, high quality firearms. They're going to use what they can get. 38 caliber revolvers fall into favor because they're cheap, they're plentiful, and they've been around for a very long time, making it easier to scoop one off the streets.

 

[CRUE CAB]

No, I use this thing called a search engine. You should try it some time, before shooting your mouth off like you're somebody.
link

You should also know that criminals aren't going to use top of the line, high quality firearms. They're going to use what they can get. 38 caliber revolvers fall into favor because they're cheap, they're plentiful, and they've been around for a very long time, making it easier to scoop one off the streets.

Those are gun recoverd at crime scenes.
Doesnt mean they were used to kill.
Plus it also lists Smth & Wesson revolvers at the top. I call BS on that seeing as Rossi and Taurus revolvers are cheaper and easier to get.
And you are quoting Time Magazine. Hahahaha. Yea, they have no agenda.

 

[davidtaylorjr]

that's because they needed people crazy enough to fight the British army ...
BTW, it's 2013 ... just saying ...

Doesn't matter. You think they didn't have mental cases in the 1700s?

 

[Surtr]

Those are gun recoverd at crime scenes.
Doesnt mean they were used to kill.
Plus it also lists Smth & Wesson revolvers at the top. I call BS on that seeing as Rossi and Taurus revolvers are cheaper and easier to get.
And you are quoting Time Magazine. Hahahaha. Yea, they have no agenda.

Says the guy who has presented nothing but a baseless assumption.

 

[CRUE CAB]

Says the guy who has presented nothing but a baseless assumption.

Get something better than time mag to back up your claim.
The .22 is the most prolific, usually cheapest gun on the market and there are millions of them in circulation.
You have yet to prove me wrong.
How many guns are made now a days in .38 vs 9mm. That right there ought to tell you that there is no way that the .38 is Americas deadliest round.
I stand by my claim that more people are killed with a .22 than all the others.

 

[Surtr]

Get something better than time mag to back up your claim.
The .22 is the most prolific, usually cheapest gun on the market and there are millions of them in circulation.
You have yet to prove me wrong.

The study was obtained from the ATF. You have yet to back your own claim.

How many guns are made now a days in .38 vs 9mm. That right there ought to tell you that there is no way that the .38 is Americas deadliest round.
I stand by my claim that more people are killed with a .22 than all the others.

You do realize that a person who is knowingly going to use a gun in a crime isn't just going to buy new from a store that requires a background check, right? 38 is still a very popular firearm.

 

[PirateMk1]

Can you give us a 100% guarantee that MY DOG won't go postal this month? I didn't think so.

No but I can guarantee your dog if hes hungry enough will attempt to eat you. :mrgreen:

 

[Arbo]

Says who? We could easily adopt a civilized country's justice system. Maybe Norway's or at the very least take these steps.

Norway? Isn't that were a guy killed 77 people and barely got any time for it?

 

[Arbo]

Can you give the world a 100 percent guarantee that this fine human being won't go Postal next month?

I didn't think so.

Thank god are country doesn't run on such a stupid concept.

 

[Arbo]

You have yet to prove me wrong.

Clearly you do not understand how debate/discussion works. It is your job, and your job alone, to prove what you have put out is true. It is not the job of others to disprove you. That sort of false logic is part of the reason there is so little actual debate/discussion in this world.