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Army says new war-ready M17 pistol will change modern combat

I disliked the Beretta. Didn't like weight distribution, sights, grip size, slide, anything.




We had humvees and occasionally Sheridans.

Only our Bradley drivers were issued sidearms and they were only issued sidearms.
 
Only our Bradley drivers were issued sidearms and they were only issued sidearms.

We were 'heavy weapons company' (D). We were 11H(a). I read that division of battalion and mos no longer exists. Our arms room (I was awarded the cush job of company armorer for my last 6 months) had everything from 9mm to TOW missile systems with comp and thermal. For pistol qual, we grabbed whomever was available that day or wanted to go to the range. My friends and I had a variety of personal pistols; my opinion is mostly from personal comparisons.
 
New pistols are cool and all, but it's unlikely an upgraded sidearm will 'change modern combat'. Soldiers will just find it easier to use.
 
We were 'heavy weapons company' (D). We were 11H(a). I read that division of battalion and mos no longer exists. Our arms room (I was awarded the cush job of company armorer for my last 6 months) had everything from 9mm to TOW missile systems with comp and thermal. For pistol qual, we grabbed whomever was available that day or wanted to go to the range. My friends and I had a variety of personal pistols; my opinion is mostly from personal comparisons.

In the M113 mech infantry units there were 5 line companies (A-E). Echo company was the anti-armor company, mounted in M901's. They were all issued rifles, I think. I don't recall any enlisted troops having a sidearm as their primary weapon. I was only in a 113 unit for a year or so before we transitioned to Bradleys, then there were only 4 line companies, doing away with the anti-armor company.
 
(rolling my eyes at yet another off topic excuse to Trump bash)

You guys are more fixated on Trump than those Trump supporters are.
You live, breathe, and eat Trump 24 hours a day and can't quit talking about him for even one minute, can you?
What will be the purpose of your life once he is out of office?

I'll tell you this much, once Trump is out of office and his Trump-style Republican minions are out of power, searching for a purpose in life will be much easier because I won't wake up every single goddamned day wondering if either my son or my wife are about to lose their health coverage, and I won't have to wonder if my wife is going to get a great big phony "THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE" followed by a privatization letter and a kick in the teeth.
And that's just for starters.

You should thank your lucky stars that YOUR life is so fortunate that you are largely insulated from his nonsense.
That's why you seem to think this is some kind of a joke.

Giving "sticking it to libtards" as a reason to live and a purpose in life to a few million otherwise worthless people was a great reality tee vee script idea. It is not, however, a blueprint for preserving the greatest modern industrialized free democratic republic in history.
It's a recipe for destroying it.

Real Housewives, Survivor, Big Brother and The Apprentice and all the other "screw over your buddy" shows are not "reality" but now, thanks to Trumpism, they have become boilerplate substitutes for patriotism, family values, ethics, morals and upward mobility, and the weapons grade historical revisionism to keep those illusions afloat have become a multi-billion dollar industry, and the coin of the realm in social media.

Congratulations, you've learned how to turn the movie "Idiocracy" into a how-to training film. And you sit there and nonchalantly act as if it's no big deal.
Well, it is a big deal.
 
From FOX News

Army says new war-ready M17 pistol will change modern combat

Earlier this year, soldiers with the Army’s 101st Airborne Division were the first to receive the services’ new high-tech 9mm pistol engineered to give dismounted infantry a vastly increased ability to fight and close with an enemy in caves, tunnels, crawl spaces, houses and other close quarter combat scenarios.

Service weapons developers and soldiers say the new M17 and M18 pistol, designed as a next-generation handgun to follow the Army’s current M9 Beretta, is expected to substantially change combat tactics, techniques and strategies for dismounted soldiers on-the-move.

“You can close with the enemy in close quarter combat and engage the enemy with one hand. It is tough to do this with the M9,” Lt. Col. Martin O’Donnell, spokesman for the 101st Airborne, told reporters earlier this year.

The new pistol is built with a more ergonomic configuration to better accommodate the widest possible range of hand grip techniques for soldiers and enable rapid hand switching as needed in combat. The M17 is said by developers to bring much tighter dispersion, improved versatility and next-generation accuracy.


COMMENT:-

It's great to see the American military buying American weapons from an American firm (even if that American firm isn't actually owned by Americans).

PS - Unless things have changed a whole lot, "The enemy is within accurate pistol shot range." means the same thing as "Somebody screwed up and the enemy is too damn close." 99 times out of 100.

Looks like a nice pistol. But saying it will transform modern warfare seems a bit way over the top. It's just a pistol.
 
The vast majority of the military including doesn't even know how to use a pistol properly and I don't see that changing anytime soon. Pretending this new pistol is going to change modern combat is absolutely retarded.

And in the end outside of a few very rare situations, and room clearing isn't one of them, a pistol is a very poor substitute for a rifle.
 
In the M113 mech infantry units there were 5 line companies (A-E). Echo company was the anti-armor company, mounted in M901's. They were all issued rifles, I think. I don't recall any enlisted troops having a sidearm as their primary weapon. I was only in a 113 unit for a year or so before we transitioned to Bradleys, then there were only 4 line companies, doing away with the anti-armor company.

You do know that "mechanized infantry" and "cavalry" are NOT the same thing, don't you?
 
10mm? Thats a hot load. Ive heard pistols using that caliber develop cracks in their barrels after just a few hundred rounds fired. I prefer the 45 ACP myself.

I have a few 10mm pistols; a pistol purpose built for the 10mm round will hold up fine...I have an EAA 10mm that I have put about 1800 rounds through with no sign of cracking or fatigue.

I will concede however, that the earlier EAA's did suffer the cracking issue due to lightening cuts on the slide in an effort to reduce weight.
 
I can think of several scenarios in which you may need to fire one-handed. They are all scenarios you definitely don’t want to find yourself in, but it happens.

Sure, but it's not doctrinal training, neither in administrative qualification nor even in combat qualification. AND you can already fire one handed, if need be, with the Beretta.

So I don't get why they are selling it as a weapon that you can fire one handed. It's like promoting it on the basis that it is metal and comes with a trigger; and will change warfare as we know it!
 
You do know that "mechanized infantry" and "cavalry" are NOT the same thing, don't you?

Yes, I do. And, I never made any reference to either branch of arms in that post.
 
My goodness, an actual person who served as MOUNTED cavalry and who is still alive.

I'm impressed.

I was mech infantry, actually. If cavalry still rode horses, that would have been different.
 
I'll tell you this much, once Trump is out of office and his Trump-style Republican minions are out of power, searching for a purpose in life will be much easier because I won't wake up every single goddamned day wondering if either my son or my wife are about to lose their health coverage, and I won't have to wonder if my wife is going to get a great big phony "THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE" followed by a privatization letter and a kick in the teeth.
And that's just for starters.

You should thank your lucky stars that YOUR life is so fortunate that you are largely insulated from his nonsense.
That's why you seem to think this is some kind of a joke.

Giving "sticking it to libtards" as a reason to live and a purpose in life to a few million otherwise worthless people was a great reality tee vee script idea. It is not, however, a blueprint for preserving the greatest modern industrialized free democratic republic in history.
It's a recipe for destroying it.

Real Housewives, Survivor, Big Brother and The Apprentice and all the other "screw over your buddy" shows are not "reality" but now, thanks to Trumpism, they have become boilerplate substitutes for patriotism, family values, ethics, morals and upward mobility, and the weapons grade historical revisionism to keep those illusions afloat have become a multi-billion dollar industry, and the coin of the realm in social media.

Congratulations, you've learned how to turn the movie "Idiocracy" into a how-to training film. And you sit there and nonchalantly act as if it's no big deal.
Well, it is a big deal.

If it happens, it won't be President Trump's fault. No one's taking your family's health coverage away.
 
From FOX News

Army says new war-ready M17 pistol will change modern combat

Earlier this year, soldiers with the Army’s 101st Airborne Division were the first to receive the services’ new high-tech 9mm pistol engineered to give dismounted infantry a vastly increased ability to fight and close with an enemy in caves, tunnels, crawl spaces, houses and other close quarter combat scenarios.

Service weapons developers and soldiers say the new M17 and M18 pistol, designed as a next-generation handgun to follow the Army’s current M9 Beretta, is expected to substantially change combat tactics, techniques and strategies for dismounted soldiers on-the-move.

“You can close with the enemy in close quarter combat and engage the enemy with one hand. It is tough to do this with the M9,” Lt. Col. Martin O’Donnell, spokesman for the 101st Airborne, told reporters earlier this year.

The new pistol is built with a more ergonomic configuration to better accommodate the widest possible range of hand grip techniques for soldiers and enable rapid hand switching as needed in combat. The M17 is said by developers to bring much tighter dispersion, improved versatility and next-generation accuracy.

COMMENT:-

It's great to see the American military buying American weapons from an American firm (even if that American firm isn't actually owned by Americans).

PS - Unless things have changed a whole lot, "The enemy is within accurate pistol shot range." means the same thing as "Somebody screwed up and the enemy is too damn close." 99 times out of 100.
Pink:
LOL

Tan:
To my way of thinking of what the Army is primarily ought to be for, yep. Be that as it may, it seems our Army is, these days, more a "police force" than a warfighting offensive (taking others' land(s)) and defensive force (stopping others from taking one's land(s)).
  • Applying the policing paradigm, however, pursuing folks into confined spaces might not be concomitant with someone's having "screwed up." If one discovers one's opponent is in a cave or tunnel, one may just have to go in after them.
  • Applying a warfighting paradigm, I agree that there should only be very rare instances where following opponents into confined spaces is necessary.
    • Cave/tunnel --> Explode the entrances and effectively "bury" them in there, letting them die of starvation/thirst inside.
    • House/crawl space --> Drop the thing on them, task a person or a piece of equipment to see if they crawl out, capturing/shooting them if they do, while the rest of unit(s) move on to new objectives.
 
I was mech infantry, actually. If cavalry still rode horses, that would have been different.

Ahh, but you said that you were someone who had actual experience as "dismounted cavalry" so I merely expressed my astonishment at your advanced age.
 
I'll tell you this much, once Trump is out of office and his Trump-style Republican minions are out of power, searching for a purpose in life will be much easier because I won't wake up every single goddamned day wondering if either my son or my wife are about to lose their health coverage, and I won't have to wonder if my wife is going to get a great big phony "THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE" followed by a privatization letter and a kick in the teeth.
And that's just for starters.

You should thank your lucky stars that YOUR life is so fortunate that you are largely insulated from his nonsense.
That's why you seem to think this is some kind of a joke.

Giving "sticking it to libtards" as a reason to live and a purpose in life to a few million otherwise worthless people was a great reality tee vee script idea. It is not, however, a blueprint for preserving the greatest modern industrialized free democratic republic in history.
It's a recipe for destroying it.

Real Housewives, Survivor, Big Brother and The Apprentice and all the other "screw over your buddy" shows are not "reality" but now, thanks to Trumpism, they have become boilerplate substitutes for patriotism, family values, ethics, morals and upward mobility, and the weapons grade historical revisionism to keep those illusions afloat have become a multi-billion dollar industry, and the coin of the realm in social media.

Congratulations, you've learned how to turn the movie "Idiocracy" into a how-to training film. And you sit there and nonchalantly act as if it's no big deal.
Well, it is a big deal.

I don't live in Los Angeles, so NO, it is not a big deal.
I am not subject to the propaganda you must digest each and every hour of the day.
You have been programmed and don't even know it.
You have now become a mean and bitter poster because of it.
We used to be friends and you never talked to me this way before.

The PC world rules the entire universe where you live.
I know, I used to live in Tujunga and worked in Burbank.

I am sorry you feel your entire universe was turned upside down after Trump got elected, but if you look around you, you will see not much has changed except you.
If you digest the propaganda you are fed daily, then you will think it is the end of civilization, like you do now.

You have been radicalized, and your posts show your steady decline into mean bitterness.
Now you are just a one trick Trump bashing pony and incapable of talking about anything else, and lashing out at your former friends because they do not think like you.

It will be my pleasure to not reply anymore to your posts until this dark wind has quit blowing through you.

Bye for now. You have "lost it" like so many others that used to have the ability to have a conversation but let politics eat them up.
Now your posts are just a bundle of hate...and you fixate on that hate with every post you make.
This is why i got the hell out of there when i did. I could see it coming.
You stayed and now it has consumed you.

When those dark winds stop blowing, you will find me still being your analog dinosaur friend like in the beginning.
Just not now.
 
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I don't live in Los Angeles, so NO, it is not a big deal.
I am not subject to the propaganda you must digest each and every hour of the day.
You have been programmed and don't even know it.
The PC world rules the entire universe where you live.
I know, I used to live in Tujunga and worked in Burbank.

I mention life issues and you deflect to something about personal computers and living in the L.A. area?
My wife's kidney and her non-functioning legs were issues when we lived in Mansfield TX for thirteen years just as they are now, but the difference is, even a BUSH APPOINTED SecVA (Anthony Principi) was so competent and so committed to his job that we felt secure in the knowledge that Karen's care and veteran's benefits were not threatened, quite the opposite, in fact.
We didn't feel a chill as liberals when we saw Bush's picture in the lobby.
We didn't vote for him, and a lot of his decisions weren't very smart, but George W. Bush NEVER attacked veterans directly, he tried to do what veterans thought was best, not what some "buddies in private industry" whispered to him at a resort.

I've lived and worked in nine regions of the country in my 62 years, don't piss on my leg and say it's raining.
Yeah, please DON'T respond anymore, just scroll on past or delete me, because it's clear you have lost the ability to comprehend the most basic reality. It has absolutely nothing to do with where a person lives.
 
I can think of several scenarios in which you may need to fire one-handed. They are all scenarios you definitely don’t want to find yourself in, but it happens.

Exactly. Esp. if you dont have a light mounted to your firearm.
 
I'm thinking, after seeing the video...that basically this gun manufacturer got one incredible contract from the Defense Dept and I can only imagine what they promised to get it.
 
I'm sure some here will want to debate the merits/lack of for point shooting but that's not why I'm writing this.

Point shooting has become a trend in self-defense shooting. In recognition of the fact that IRL, you never get to assume a perfect stance and stand still while firing.

Perhaps this 'new way' of fighting is alluding to this? I dont know if the military trains for point shooting. Or if they are considering it or doing it.

I'm not really buying that they'd actually specifically design a gun more ergonomic for one-handed shooting than 2 tho.
 
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