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Arizona Governor Should Restore Teacher's Job

Risky Thicket

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Here in Arizona the Tea Party has decided to run the state into the ground. We have a partially Koch funded Tea Party legislature and a largely Koch purchased governor. The governor - Doug Ducey - worships the great work of Gov. Brownback of Kansas. Ducey, former owner and CEO of Cold Stone Ice Cream is on a mission. He has no idea what he is doing but that doesn't change his commitment. Ducey has hired a trainload of business people to "fix government".

Ducey fired many state department directors and appointed his own business people and friends of donors to help him fix things. As you might imagine it's a cluster****.

Under Ducey people are fired almost daily without reason. If they are in exempt positions, and most are there, there is no requirement to explain why. We are not talking about 2 weeks notice or anything like that, most are summarily dismissed and tossed in the boneyard on the same day and with no prior warning. It is apparently a frequent occurrence.

Talk is, I don't know this for fact, that Ducey's fixers are paid more than their predecessors as are the replacements from business that the fixers hire to replace former state workers.

Now this. It's illustrative of what we have been hearing of Ducey's Brownback style government. An award winning teacher in a state school program who is fighting cancer was fired - bam! - just like that for fighting a staph infection which resulted from chemotherapy. The teacher's doctor would not release her to back to work just yet. The teacher informed that school. Just like that they fired her AND IMMEDIATELY CANCELLED her health insurance!

It's a tragic story.

A round of applause today for the Arizona Department of Juvenile Corrections, which summarily fired a teacher for not showing up at work.It seems this slacker is battling cancer and was still fighting an infection when her unpaid medical leave expired on Monday.
So the state fired her. Then it revoked her health insurance – the plan that was covering her cancer treatment.
Juvenile Corrections Director Dona Marie Markley would not answer Republic reporter Craig Harris’ questions about Tarah Ausburn's dismissal from Adobe Mountain School.
But she was helpful enough to explain that the agency didn’t actually fire the 36-year-old teacher. No, Ausburn involuntarily resigned, she explained.
Really, she said that.


The full story here.
 
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Captain Adverse

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Here in Arizona the Tea Party has decided to run the state into the ground. We have a partially Koch funded Tea Party legislature and a largely Koch purchased governor. The governor - Doug Ducey - worships the great work of Gov. Brownback of Kansas. Ducey, former owner and CEO of Cold Stone Ice Cream is on a mission. He has no idea what he is doing but that doesn't change his commitment. Ducey has hired a trainload of business people to "fix government".

Ducey fired many state department directors and appointed his own business people and friends of donors to help him fix things. As you might imagine it's a cluster****.

Under Ducey people are fired almost daily without reason. If they are in exempt positions, and most are there, there is no requirement to explain why. We are not talking about 2 weeks notice or anything like that, most are summarily dismissed and tossed in the boneyard on the same day and with no prior warning. It is apparently a frequent occurrence.

Talk is, I don't know this for fact, that Ducey's fixers are paid more than their predecessors as are the replacements from business that the fixers hire to replace former state workers.

Now this. It's illustrative of what we have been hearing of Ducey's Brownback style government. An award winning teacher in a state school program who is fighting cancer was fired - bam! - just like that for fighting a staph infection which resulted from chemotherapy. The teacher's doctor would not release her to back to work just yet. The teacher informed that school. Just like that they fired her AND IMMEDIATELY CANCELLED her health insurance!

It's a tragic story.


[/FONT][/COLOR]
The full story here.

Sorry to say but this is not something new, unusual, or special to the State of Arizona. It is a standard practice around the nation.

The Act allows eligible employees to take up to 12 work weeks of unpaid leave during any 12-month period to attend to the serious health condition of the employee, parent, spouse or child, or for pregnancy or care of a newborn child, or for adoption or foster care of a child. In order to be eligible for FMLA leave, an employee must have been at the business at least 12 months, and worked at least 1,250 hours over the past 12 months, and work at a location where the company employs 50 or more employees within 75 miles. The FMLA covers both public- and private-sector employees, but certain categories of employees are excluded, including elected officials and their personal staff members.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_and_Medical_Leave_Act_of_1993

The provisions of the Family and Medical Leave Act allow for qualified employees to be granted a period of up to 12 weeks of unpaid medical leave, and the employer must hold their position open for their return until this period lapses.

The woman in your article clearly states that she was granted FMLA and that when the 12 weeks expired she was still unable to return to work.

The employer is allowed to terminate employment and hire a replacement for the position if the employee is not released by her physician to return to work.

The Governor did not do anything. That's simply how the process works all over the United States of America. :shrug:
 
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SenorXm/Sirius

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Here in Arizona the Tea Party has decided to run the state into the ground. We have a partially Koch funded Tea Party legislature and a largely Koch purchased governor. The governor - Doug Ducey - worships the great work of Gov. Brownback of Kansas. Ducey, former owner and CEO of Cold Stone Ice Cream is on a mission. He has no idea what he is doing but that doesn't change his commitment. Ducey has hired a trainload of business people to "fix government".

Ducey fired many state department directors and appointed his own business people and friends of donors to help him fix things. As you might imagine it's a cluster****.

Under Ducey people are fired almost daily without reason. If they are in exempt positions, and most are there, there is no requirement to explain why. We are not talking about 2 weeks notice or anything like that, most are summarily dismissed and tossed in the boneyard on the same day and with no prior warning. It is apparently a frequent occurrence.

Talk is, I don't know this for fact, that Ducey's fixers are paid more than their predecessors as are the replacements from business that the fixers hire to replace former state workers.

Now this. It's illustrative of what we have been hearing of Ducey's Brownback style government. An award winning teacher in a state school program who is fighting cancer was fired - bam! - just like that for fighting a staph infection which resulted from chemotherapy. The teacher's doctor would not release her to back to work just yet. The teacher informed that school. Just like that they fired her AND IMMEDIATELY CANCELLED her health insurance!

It's a tragic story.


[/FONT][/COLOR]
The full story here.

There is no such thing as compassionate conservatism in this country anymore. The general welfare of our society is long gone in with the GOP and conservatives. It's not even in their vocabulary anymore.

It's all selfishness and me, me, me now.
 

chromium

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Sick americans don't have rights to speak of. We may as well be zambia. This seems a problem with the overall system and something to demand of your candidates for office, except they're too busy taking bribes for that

Her only hope is to uncover that they broke medical privacy laws, as happened to a coworker of mine who was fired when her recovery from Chrome's disease took longer than expected. Not that firing her for being sick wasn't the bigger injustice, but that's our laws
 

Master PO

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There is no such thing as compassionate conservatism in this country anymore. The general welfare of our society is long gone in with the GOP and conservatives. It's not even in their vocabulary anymore.

It's all selfishness and me, me, me now.
:roll:....dont get your way, call. Someone mean and hateful
 

Risky Thicket

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Sorry to say but this is not something new, unusual, or special to the State of Arizona. It is a standard practice around the nation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Family_and_Medical_Leave_Act_of_1993

The provisions of the Family and Medical Leave Act allow for qualified employees to be granted a period of up to 12 weeks of unpaid medical leave, and the employer must hold their position open for their return until this period lapses.

The woman in your article clearly states that she was granted FMLA and that when the 12 weeks expired she was still unable to return to work.

The employer is allowed to terminate employment and hire a replacement for the position if the employee is not released to return to work.

The Governor did not do anything. That's simply how the process worked all over the United States of America.

Thanks, I do understand the FMLA. The teacher's situation was not that cut and dry. In addition, the FMLA does not mandate that a person must be fired.

As for the governor, perhaps I didn't explain the situation in detail. He has hired and established a government hierarchy to cut bleed state services to the bone. Well, except those that benefit the people who donated to his campaign such as private prisons. An award winning teacher who battling cancer has done everything possible and offered every conceivable solution to help her hold on to her job until she could return to work? Naaaa. It's one example of an ongoing situation.

We shall see what the governor does.
 

Captain Adverse

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Thanks, I do understand the FMLA. The teacher's situation was not that cut and dry. In addition, the FMLA does not mandate that a person must be fired.

As for the governor, perhaps I didn't explain the situation in detail. He has hired and established a government hierarchy to cut bleed state services to the bone. Well, except those that benefit the people who donated to his campaign such as private prisons. An award winning teacher who battling cancer has done everything possible and offered every conceivable solution to help her hold on to her job until she could return to work? Naaaa. It's one example of an ongoing situation.

We shall see what the governor does.

Tsk tsk, her situation is fairly cut and dry. In fact, it happens to thousands of employees throughout the U.S.A. every year.

First, one must realize that despite all the rhetoric, there really is no right to work in this nation. One works under a contract and only those conditions either guaranteed by that contract or covered under Federal (or State) law once employed apply. Employees serve at the needs of the employer, and can be hired and fired in keeping with those needs and the law.

Second, when someone is on any kind of leave; whether FMLA, Worker's Compensation, or employer authorized, this means the job is not being done. Now three months of FMLA is a long time; a complete School semester in the case of a Teacher like this woman. The employer still has to conduct their business which often results in hiring a qualified temporary worker. Eventually, if the employee cannot return at the end of the time due to a major illness it is not unreasonable to replace them either with the temporary worker or someone equally qualified...all for any number of sound business reasons.

Third, you are championing this one woman because her story was brought to your attention in the news...sympathy as a cancer victim. However, she is only one of those many thousands who all have some sympathetic case to share. How long would be reasonable to hold a job open in order to meet both empathy AND the needs of the employer?

In any case, I don't think this is a good example for purposes of attacking your governor. It's pretty standard practice as I've said, and not in the least unfair or unusual.
 
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ajn678

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This really sucks...and as an administrator I would've tried to work with the employee to see if it was possible to keep them on, unpaid if it was possible to get a temp in if it was just a short time longer. However, this is pretty standard procedure and I can tell you that this would happen in a Blue state/public sector just as often as it happens in Arizona. Sadly our healthcare system is very messed up, and getting cancer is often a death sentence as well as a bankruptcy sentence.
 

JANFU

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Tsk tsk, her situation is fairly cut and dry. In fact, it happens to thousands of employees throughout the U.S.A. every year.

First, one must realize that despite all the rhetoric, there really is no right to work in this nation. One works under a contract and only those conditions either guaranteed by that contract or covered under Federal (or State) law once employed apply. Employees serve at the needs of the employer, and can be hired and fired in keeping with those needs and the law.

Second, when someone is on any kind of leave; whether FMLA, Worker's Compensation, or employer authorized, this means the job is not being done. Now three months of FMLA is a long time; a complete School semester in the case of a Teacher like this woman. The employer still has to conduct their business which often results in hiring a qualified temporary worker. Eventually, if the employee cannot return at the end of the time due to a major illness it is not unreasonable to replace them either with the temporary worker or someone equally qualified...all for any number of sound business reasons.

Third, you are championing this one woman because her story was brought to your attention in the news...sympathy as a cancer victim. However, she is only one of those many thousands who all have some sympathetic case to share. How long would be reasonable to hold a job open in order to meet both empathy AND the needs of the employer?

In any case, I don't think this is a good example for purposes of attacking your governor. It's pretty standard practice as I've said, and not in the least unfair or unusual.
It is an unfair practice and many democracies that are more advanced in worker rights this would not occur.
They fired an outstanding employee, they have lowered morale withing those that teach, and what did the State gain.
Now if they had not, they would have gained.
 

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Liberals will never let facts, logic, science, or compassion interrupt a really good pity party. I am very sorry the woman was sick and couldn't work. I don't think the employer should be required to keep paying her forever.

Since voting for liberals doesn't terminate at death, does sick leave?
 

Risky Thicket

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Liberals will never let facts, logic, science, or compassion interrupt a really good pity party. I am very sorry the woman was sick and couldn't work. I don't think the employer should be required to keep paying her forever.

Since voting for liberals doesn't terminate at death, does sick leave?

No soup for you, Patrickt.

This week the Arizona Governor did re-instate the lady after overwhelming pressure from Arizona citizens.

Based on your post you may be qualified to be a governor. A citizen? Not so much.
 

Visbek

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Liberals will never let facts, logic, science, or compassion interrupt a really good pity party. I am very sorry the woman was sick and couldn't work. I don't think the employer should be required to keep paying her forever.

Since voting for liberals doesn't terminate at death, does sick leave?
So, let me get this straight.

You started a thread about a woman who was selling tamales without a permit, and fuming that she got dinged for $700. This provoked you into a multi-day tirade against how awful it is for the government to follow rules blindly and unthinkingly.

Then, when a state bureaucrat denies medical leave to a woman fighting cancer, fires her, and calls it an "involuntary resignation," you shrug and say "screw her." (And then top it off by tossing a bunch of vitriol at the liberals who don't want this woman to be fired, or lose her health insurance, because she's seriously ill.)

I guess a handful of conservatives will never let facts, logic, science, compassion or consistency get in the way of a really good snarl, huh? ;)
 

solletica

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Here in Arizona the Tea Party has decided to run the state into the ground. We have a partially Koch funded Tea Party legislature and a largely Koch purchased governor. The governor - Doug Ducey - worships the great work of Gov. Brownback of Kansas. Ducey, former owner and CEO of Cold Stone Ice Cream is on a mission. He has no idea what he is doing but that doesn't change his commitment. Ducey has hired a trainload of business people to "fix government".

Ducey fired many state department directors and appointed his own business people and friends of donors to help him fix things. As you might imagine it's a cluster****.

Under Ducey people are fired almost daily without reason. If they are in exempt positions, and most are there, there is no requirement to explain why. We are not talking about 2 weeks notice or anything like that, most are summarily dismissed and tossed in the boneyard on the same day and with no prior warning. It is apparently a frequent occurrence.

Talk is, I don't know this for fact, that Ducey's fixers are paid more than their predecessors as are the replacements from business that the fixers hire to replace former state workers.

Now this. It's illustrative of what we have been hearing of Ducey's Brownback style government. An award winning teacher in a state school program who is fighting cancer was fired - bam! - just like that for fighting a staph infection which resulted from chemotherapy. The teacher's doctor would not release her to back to work just yet. The teacher informed that school. Just like that they fired her AND IMMEDIATELY CANCELLED her health insurance!

It's a tragic story.


[/FONT][/COLOR]
The full story here.

To be fair, AZ's tax rates are fairly low compared to many other states, though it could be even lower, considering how little useful stuff it funds.

Recall that conservatism is fundamentally about taxing people to death to pay for a large, theistic govt. that wages useless wars and enforces Xtian doctrine by threat of force, and AZ, fortunately, is not (at least yet) a ****hole like that.
 

Risky Thicket

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To be fair, AZ's tax rates are fairly low compared to many other states, though it could be even lower, considering how little useful stuff it funds.

Recall that conservatism is fundamentally about taxing people to death to pay for a large, theistic govt. that wages useless wars and enforces Xtian doctrine by threat of force, and AZ, fortunately, is not (at least yet) a ****hole like that.

No, we aren't thankfully. The jury is still out on the future.

It's all in how you look at it. Arizona ranks 45th in the nation in public education. Arizona is ranked 49th per capita in state higher education funding. Arizona ranks 50th for public access to mental health care. Those are a few examples.

Don't misunderstand me. I like living here. We can do, and have done, better.

Arizona is in many ways moving in the wrong direction, however. Our governor, a Tea Partisan - who was elected due to huge amounts of dark money - has an approval rate of 35%. Under his small government :roll: approach municipalities cannot pass many local laws without state government approval. Want to establish a minimum wage for your city? Not without State approval. Want to outlaw plastic shopping bags in your town? No can do without State approval. And the State has already told Tempe that it may not.

How about this? Local governments that are reported for violating laws by any state legislator must be investigated by the State Attorney General. This essentially has given every state legislator a huge political trudgeon to hold over every city government in his or her (gerrymandered) district. Lovely, innit?

The governor and the Tea Party legislature are "Brownbacking" the state. It is a work in unprogress, check back with us a year from now.
 

nota bene

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Here in Arizona the Tea Party has decided to run the state into the ground. We have a partially Koch funded Tea Party legislature and a largely Koch purchased governor. The governor - Doug Ducey - worships the great work of Gov. Brownback of Kansas. Ducey, former owner and CEO of Cold Stone Ice Cream is on a mission. He has no idea what he is doing but that doesn't change his commitment. Ducey has hired a trainload of business people to "fix government".

Ducey fired many state department directors and appointed his own business people and friends of donors to help him fix things. As you might imagine it's a cluster****.

Under Ducey people are fired almost daily without reason. If they are in exempt positions, and most are there, there is no requirement to explain why. We are not talking about 2 weeks notice or anything like that, most are summarily dismissed and tossed in the boneyard on the same day and with no prior warning. It is apparently a frequent occurrence.

Talk is, I don't know this for fact, that Ducey's fixers are paid more than their predecessors as are the replacements from business that the fixers hire to replace former state workers.

Now this. It's illustrative of what we have been hearing of Ducey's Brownback style government. An award winning teacher in a state school program who is fighting cancer was fired - bam! - just like that for fighting a staph infection which resulted from chemotherapy. The teacher's doctor would not release her to back to work just yet. The teacher informed that school. Just like that they fired her AND IMMEDIATELY CANCELLED her health insurance!

It's a tragic story.


[/FONT][/COLOR]
The full story here.

How Orwellian is "involuntarily resigned"?
 

Patrickt

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So, let me get this straight.

You started a thread about a woman who was selling tamales without a permit, and fuming that she got dinged for $700. This provoked you into a multi-day tirade against how awful it is for the government to follow rules blindly and unthinkingly.

Then, when a state bureaucrat denies medical leave to a woman fighting cancer, fires her, and calls it an "involuntary resignation," you shrug and say "screw her." (And then top it off by tossing a bunch of vitriol at the liberals who don't want this woman to be fired, or lose her health insurance, because she's seriously ill.)

I guess a handful of conservatives will never let facts, logic, science, compassion or consistency get in the way of a really good snarl, huh? ;)

He didn't "deny her medical leave". She got her medical leave, didn't she? She used up her medical leave, didn't she? But, you think she should have leave in perpetuity. I guess liberal who screw people left and right with their regulators care nothing about the people who pay for their excesses. The "rules are the rules" only apply when it suits their ideology.

I realize honesty isn't your strong suit but what you're asking for isn't that she be reinstated to her job. She can't work, can she? No, you want sick leave for life.

And, Visbek, I didn't have a multi-day tirade. I can see how delicate Democrats might think so. I didn't have a single tirade about the government screwing the little people. I did have a few days of responding to nitwits and fools. Are we going to have to go through that again?
 
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cabse5

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Tsk tsk, her situation is fairly cut and dry. In fact, it happens to thousands of employees throughout the U.S.A. every year.

First, one must realize that despite all the rhetoric, there really is no right to work in this nation. One works under a contract and only those conditions either guaranteed by that contract or covered under Federal (or State) law once employed apply. Employees serve at the needs of the employer, and can be hired and fired in keeping with those needs and the law.

Second, when someone is on any kind of leave; whether FMLA, Worker's Compensation, or employer authorized, this means the job is not being done. Now three months of FMLA is a long time; a complete School semester in the case of a Teacher like this woman. The employer still has to conduct their business which often results in hiring a qualified temporary worker. Eventually, if the employee cannot return at the end of the time due to a major illness it is not unreasonable to replace them either with the temporary worker or someone equally qualified...all for any number of sound business reasons.

Third, you are championing this one woman because her story was brought to your attention in the news...sympathy as a cancer victim. However, she is only one of those many thousands who all have some sympathetic case to share. How long would be reasonable to hold a job open in order to meet both empathy AND the needs of the employer?

In any case, I don't think this is a good example for purposes of attacking your governor. It's pretty standard practice as I've said, and not in the least unfair or unusual.
I'm referring to the bolded on your post, only...You realize socialists are trying to change this 'pay for qualifications' or a meritocracy based on capitalism at work? Socialists feel how well you do your job isn't as important as your gender or skin color. Don't get me wrong, socialists also feel their message needs to be broadcasted....
 
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Visbek

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He didn't "deny her medical leave". She got her medical leave, didn't she?
She requested an extension to her unpaid medical leave, which was denied. Heavens forbid an award-winning teacher needs a little more time to deal with the complications of cancer surgery.


But, you think she should have leave in perpetuity.
I think the state could have handled extending her medical leave by a month or so. Apparently, the hard right-wing Republican governor agrees.

They also could have allowed her to take part of a day out for a doctor's appointment; instead, she had to take entire days off for a one-hour appointment. She ran through her sick leave faster because of that policy.

I also think that classifying a firing as an "involuntary resignation," followed by terminating her medical insurance immediately is obviously nonsense, and not an example of obeying the rules.


I guess liberal who screw people left and right with their regulators care nothing about the people who pay for their excesses. The "rules are the rules" only apply when it suits their ideology.
And in turn, you apparently think that the rules should be bent, unless a "liberal" supports the person involved? Good to know.

Or perhaps it's that you care more about tamale sellers who get a small fine, than cancer patients who lose their health insurance in mid-treatment?


I realize honesty isn't your strong suit but what you're asking for isn't that she be reinstated to her job. She can't work, can she? No, you want sick leave for life.
Uh, hello? Again, her sick leave was unpaid, and I never said anything about indefinite sick leave, nor would I support that. I'm arguing for fair and reasonably humane treatment of employees.

Also, stop with the ad hom attacks. You have absolutely no reason whatsoever to doubt the veracity of any statements I've made here.


And, Visbek, I didn't have a multi-day tirade. I can see how delicate Democrats might think so. I didn't have a single tirade about the government screwing the little people. I did have a few days of responding to nitwits and fools. Are we going to have to go through that again?
Dude.

You obviously spent several days Raging Against the Regulation Machine, citing dozens of examples of what you believe of as regulators gone wild, and claiming that eventually I'd get a nastygram from my city because I invited a few friends to a barbecue in my backyard. Please try to keep track of your own posts, kthx.
 

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Sorry, Dude. There is certainly adequate cause to doubt your veracity. i realize in your world, ad hominem attacks should go unanswered, Dude. I also realize that for the regulators, rules are the rules and laws are the laws but only for some, Dude.
 

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Here in Arizona the Tea Party has decided to run the state into the ground. We have a partially Koch funded Tea Party legislature and a largely Koch purchased governor. The governor - Doug Ducey - worships the great work of Gov. Brownback of Kansas. Ducey, former owner and CEO of Cold Stone Ice Cream is on a mission. He has no idea what he is doing but that doesn't change his commitment. Ducey has hired a trainload of business people to "fix government".

Ducey fired many state department directors and appointed his own business people and friends of donors to help him fix things. As you might imagine it's a cluster****.

Under Ducey people are fired almost daily without reason. If they are in exempt positions, and most are there, there is no requirement to explain why. We are not talking about 2 weeks notice or anything like that, most are summarily dismissed and tossed in the boneyard on the same day and with no prior warning. It is apparently a frequent occurrence.

Talk is, I don't know this for fact, that Ducey's fixers are paid more than their predecessors as are the replacements from business that the fixers hire to replace former state workers.

Now this. It's illustrative of what we have been hearing of Ducey's Brownback style government. An award winning teacher in a state school program who is fighting cancer was fired - bam! - just like that for fighting a staph infection which resulted from chemotherapy. The teacher's doctor would not release her to back to work just yet. The teacher informed that school. Just like that they fired her AND IMMEDIATELY CANCELLED her health insurance!

It's a tragic story.


[/FONT][/COLOR]
The full story here.

the lady has been reinstated....

but...how long should a job remain open?

FMLA requires 12 weeks....that is three months an employer has to keep a job open, and somehow still get crap done

You seem to think that it should be longer in certain circumstances....

what 20 weeks? 36 weeks? a year?

how long should an employer hold a job for someone who is out because of an illness, or a major issue?

as a guy who runs a 180+ employee company, it is a question i have had to answer a couple of times myself as people run into difficult times

missing key people especially.....it is not an easy answer for employers
 

Risky Thicket

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the lady has been reinstated....

but...how long should a job remain open?

FMLA requires 12 weeks....that is three months an employer has to keep a job open, and somehow still get crap done

You seem to think that it should be longer in certain circumstances....

what 20 weeks? 36 weeks? a year?

how long should an employer hold a job for someone who is out because of an illness, or a major issue?

as a guy who runs a 180+ employee company, it is a question i have had to answer a couple of times myself as people run into difficult times

missing key people especially.....it is not an easy answer for employers

Been that and done there. I agree, it is never easy, and I know you'll agree, that it shouldn't be easy. Each situation is different and as such every situation must be considered and resolved independently of the others. That's easier said than done as you want to be as consistent as possible while at the same time being flexible. Of course there is always the bottom line. It's a bit like juggling blindfolded while attempting to look confident, assured and completely in control.

A lady once worked for me in a key position. She flat worked. She was highly motivated and low maintenance. She was a self starter who needed very little direction. She was also a respected leader and supervisor and I trusted her. We all did.

After a series of health issues she was diagnosed with Crohn's Disease. I knew nothing about the disease at the time. Long story short, it was difficult for her to travel, which was a key part of her job. She was in and out the hospital a few times and home and working from home quite a bit as the medical people tried to find the best solution for her. She began a fairly involved infusion regimen that required hours at a time at a physician's clinic. Eventually she had surgery. She depleted her sick leave.

I stuck it out with her. We worked it out. God knows the lady loved her job and damned sure didn't love the medical hell she was going through. We had to double up some of her work and I even humped part of her load for a while. In my opinion it is what good humans do for each other. No one complained. It actually gave everyone an extra sense of security. That was not my intent but it was part of the positive outcome.

The lady returned to work healthier than we had seen her in a very long time. It was uplifting, really, as if we had all participated in her personal triumph.

All in all, as I remember it, HR and my business manager and I determined while keeping her on beyond FMLA compared to conducting a national search; the lengthy, time consuming process of interviewing and hiring and training; and the time required for a new person to become as proficient as the lady she/he would replace wasn't a direct financial washout but the difference was not staggering. In additional the intangibles of standing beside a good person, a good employee, made up for any difference.
 

Visbek

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the lady has been reinstated....

but...how long should a job remain open?
The employer should use a reasonable standard for extending unpaid medical leave. There is a big difference between holding the position open for 1 month, as compared to 6 or 12 months.

It also depends on the replacement options. If it is fairly easy for the employer to temporarily replace the employee, that would lend itself to the employer being more lenient. If it is extremely difficult to find a temporary replacement, that will impact the decision in various ways.

Employee performance may also matter. A valued employee will almost certainly get more slack than a poor performer. (In this case, the teacher had won awards and praise by colleagues.)

However, it seems this is more an example of the state trying to knock expensive people off the rolls, rather than emphasize efficiency. They had apparently taken other actions which suggests this, including poorly treating the teachers at that school, as well as forcing the teacher to take full days off when she only had to go to a doctor's appointment.

In addition, the declaration that she had "involuntarily resigned" seems egregious, especially if that resulted in cutting off her health insurance immediately, and eliminating her ability to collect unemployment. The effects of the classification difference are not entirely clear, but it seems likely to have reduced the state's financial liability.

P.S. I don't think anyone is saying "this is easy in each and every case." It's that this particular instance seems like it was very poorly handled.
 
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Or perhaps it's that you care more about tamale sellers who get a small fine, than cancer patients who lose their health insurance in mid-treatment?

Except she didn't. You do know we're responsible for our own health insurance now, right? You know about COBRA, right? You know she's eligible for subsidized Obamacare, right?

That said, I'm glad the governor decided to reverse the decision. However, off the books exemptions cause future problems. Expect others to say in the future, "hey, she got an exemption, how come I can't - dirty racists!".
 

Visbek

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Except she didn't. You do know we're responsible for our own health insurance now, right? You know about COBRA, right? You know she's eligible for subsidized Obamacare, right?
Her employer (AZ Juvenile Corrections) reportedly terminated her health care. I'm not sure what's going on with her COBRA, as I agree she should be eligible. However, it is possible that the way they fired/forcibly resigned her affects her coverage.

If she is ineligible for COBRA, I am quite confident that if you get fired -- oh, sorry, "involuntarily resigned" -- on Friday, and your employer terminates your insurance coverage, you are not going to be able to sign up for ACA coverage for your procedure on Monday. Not to mention you will be starting from scratch in terms of deductibles, over halfway through the year.

So even if she could get coverage, she could easily be on the hook for around $5000 in deductibles, and may need to change her doctors in the middle of treating a staph infection caused by surgery to treat late-stage cancer. It happens, sometimes that's life, but damn that's cold.


That said, I'm glad the governor decided to reverse the decision. However, off the books exemptions cause future problems. Expect others to say in the future, "hey, she got an exemption, how come I can't - dirty racists!".
That's... quite the leap of logic right there.

I really don't see how holding a position open for an award-winning teacher, who was dealing with cancer, sets a dangerous precedent.

Plus, of all the racism in Arizona? Giving a white female juvenile prison teacher with cancer a break, and not offering the exact same thing to a teacher who is a minority doesn't even rank.
 

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.........but...how long should a job remain open?

FMLA requires 12 weeks....that is three months an employer has to keep a job open, and somehow still get crap done

You seem to think that it should be longer in certain circumstances....

what 20 weeks? 36 weeks? a year?

how long should an employer hold a job for someone who is out because of an illness, or a major issue?

as a guy who runs a 180+ employee company, it is a question i have had to answer a couple of times myself as people run into difficult times

missing key people especially.....it is not an easy answer for employers

....But it also requires employers to reinstate employees who take up to five years off.......with all of the promotions, raises, and other benefits they would have received had they worked through their time off. And, it prohibits employers from firing employees without cause for up to one year after they return.....

Link

Major issues :roll:
 
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