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Arizona anti-gay bill vetoed by governor


There is no such thing as a business open to the public. It's a legal concept forced on business, but not one that exists in real life. All the rights these laws violate however are real, and many of them are protected by the Constitution by amendment.
 
Should business be allowed to refuse to provide services because of race?
 
Well then I suppose thank god for the internet. There's a way out of it with brick and mortor too - limited membership buyers clubs.

If the government wants to run my business from soup to nuts, what's the point? Let them do the work.

Exactly. If I don't have any rights if I'm a business owner than **** the entire thing. If the government wants to run my business instead of ME, the owner, than let society do without my business, and lets see how well they do when everyone says **** this ****.

Liberals talk of treating people equally, but what about the business owner? Did they forgot they are human beings too?
 

Nice colors. Did you understand the part of "valid laws"? If a state puts into practice laws that violates the Constitutional Rights of others it is not valid and should be challenged.
When federal judges start basing their opinions on "hurt feelings" as in the case of the Colorado baker, over constitutional law something is very wrong and should be challenged.

This is much more that religious rights, but the violation of expression of free speech and property rights. For what is the purpose of the First Amendment if it is not going to protect all? Sexual Orientation discrimination laws need to be defined in the originalist view of the Constitution. Not some living breathing rendition that anyone can make it to mean whatever they want it to.
 

Harms society? Dude, society is just a collection of people with individual rights. Society is not it's own entity with it's own rights that we have to consider.
 

Let me guess. You think the Civil Rights Act and the various states' versions of Civil Rights Acts are not valid.

Originalists view? The same original Constitution that deemed blacks 3/5th of a person and referred to them as property? That's the original Originalists view.
 

Yeah, that Constitution. You know the one that was amended the correct way rather than simply re-interpretted by a few.

Not to mention, I don't think you understand what that 3/5s thing was all about.
 
Yeah, that Constitution. You know the one that was amended the correct way rather than simply re-interpretted by a few.

Not to mention, I don't think you understand what that 3/5s thing was all about.

Also not mentioning that he clearly has no idea the actions that were taken on slavery before the Constitution was even ratified.
 

OMG no wonder we have such ridiculous flaming comments about this whole bill being anti-gay to people with religious convictions are hateful bigots. Geesh.

For your information- the “three-fifths clause” found in Article I, section 2, clause 3. Contrary to what you and some revisionist historians claim, the “three-fifths clause” is a clear indication that a number of our constitutional founders wanted to end slavery; it is not a statement about personhood. The Northern states did not want to count slaves. The Southern states hoped to include slaves in the population statistics in order to acquire additional representation in Congress to advance their political position. If you knew your history this would be obvious. The issue of slavery was a major concern at the Constitutional Convention and was discussed at length in the debates. A significant minority of the delegates to the Federal Convention were staunch opponents of slavery, primarily those who adhered to the Federalist philosophy. Benjamin Franklin and Alexander Hamilton opposed slavery. John Jay, who would become the first Chief Justice of the United States, was president of the New York anti-slavery society. Northern Federalist leaders Rufus King and governor Morris were outspoken opponents of slavery and the slave trade.
 
Should business be allowed to refuse to provide services because of race?

Should you be able to boycott Chick-fil-A?
 
Yeah, that Constitution. You know the one that was amended the correct way rather than simply re-interpretted by a few.

Not to mention, I don't think you understand what that 3/5s thing was all about.

I'm pretty sure I do.
 
G'head...tell us about it.

I went into it a week or so ago, so I will just quote myself here..


Now, do you know the two major actions that were taken on slavery from the ratification of the Constitution to about lets say 1809?

Hint: Think trade.
 
Yes, customers should be able to go somewhere else to eat if they don't like a business for any reason. Which, by the way, is nothing like not serving someone because of race or sexual preference. And I love ChikfilA and thought it was a wonderful publicity Faux and Cathy pulled off.
Should you be able to boycott Chick-fil-A?
 

The seeds which started with a Southern aristocracy that refused to join the Union initially unless their precious peculiar institution was allowed to thrive.

If anyone is revising history, it's you.

It was a dirty, but necessary compromise. The South would not have joined the Union without this messy compromise. Fact.


It actually strengthened the voice and power of the southern slaveholders.

It gave representation in congress to people who were not citizens and could not vote.

Which had the effect of giving the southern states more congressmen for what was considered property.

Leading some Northerner's to ask, why not give representation to sheep or cows? After all, they shared the same thing as human slaves: Chattel. Farm tools. Property.

That's what it was. It gave representation to property.
 
I went into it a week or so ago, so I will just quote myself here..



Now, do you know the two major actions that were taken on slavery from the ratification of the Constitution to about lets say 1809?

Hint: Think trade.

I'm quite familiar with the Pennsylvania Abolition Society. In fact, in my archives, I own some original papers from some of their members. For decades I have worked in the field of history, and deal with Museums, historical societies and even the Smithsonian.

What was started then, and other abolitionist societies helped the North abolish slavery. the South wasn't ready to do that, and in fact fought a bloody war to promote and preserve it's continuation some seventy plus years after the Constitution was written.
 
That's not the same as withholding service from someone based on an innate trait they cannot control.

The right to ones property, labor, service and association pays no mind to such things. Can you prove that you were harmed by someone denying service? Of course not, so therefore, you have nothing to defend the law. Oh well.
 
Yes, customers should be able to go somewhere else to eat if they don't like a business for any reason.

Tell me, what would be wrong with forcing such customers, those who oppose Chick-fil-A's position, to have to eat at Chick-fil-A under penalty of law? We've already established that liberals don't believe in the Freedom of Association and that they see no problem with forced associations, so barring these two objections, how do you explain the harm (if any) which befalls on boycotters being forced to do business with the business.
 
Yes, customers should be able to go somewhere else to eat if they don't like a business for any reason.

Lol, so the customers have their rights protected, but the business does not. Good old liberal gibberish.
 
I'm pretty sure you didn't. See post #335 for an education.

There's no education there. It's David Barton-style clap-trap.

It did not reduce the slave power, nor give "clear indication the Founders wanted to end slavery."

It provided the South with representation in Congress with a huge swath of people who were literally property.

To many Northerners, it was like giving the cattle on their farms, or their horses a portion of representation.

It gave the south a huge advantage in the HoR which lasted for generations.
 

You're decision to cling to ignorance duly noted.
 
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