ARIZ. SHERIFF: Armed Militias beware or be shot

[ZapFinch42]

What you fail to realize is that a lot of the territory along the border is private property and keeping people who are prone to robbing you, messing up your fences and wells and trashing your property is NOT something you have to tolerate.

-edit-

I'll even go you one farther....every year we have several dozen people die out here trying to cross illegally. If, in being out there and spotting some of these people we can save a few lives then I figure that alone makes the effort worth it.

Luther, since we are both Tucsonans (represent!) I know that you know that there are dozens of humanitarian groups that go out and provide aid to these folks when they get in a jam. They don't carry guns, just water and first aid kits. The vast majority of them even contact border patrol after the encounter. We both know it is incredibly disingenuous of you to pretend that you are out there "helping" people with an AR-15. You are out there to fulfill some self-important power trip and nothing else.

 

[Muhammed]

"I have to commend my deputy for not killing this person, which easily could have happened," Arpaio said. "He's lucky he didn't see 30 rounds fired into him."

That's hilarious. Arpaio seems to have forgotten that Malley got the drop on his deputy who was pretending to be a dangerous criminal.

That's why his panties are all in a bunch.

 

[Lutherf]

Luther, since we are both Tucsonans (represent!) I know that you know that there are dozens of humanitarian groups that go out and provide aid to these folks when they get in a jam. They don't carry guns, just water and first aid kits. The vast majority of them even contact border patrol after the encounter. We both know it is incredibly disingenuous of you to pretend that you are out there "helping" people with an AR-15. You are out there to fulfill some self-important power trip and nothing else.

Yeah....NMD, Humane Borders and BAN. There's some fine, upstanding Americans helping people break the law:roll:

May as well change the print on the barrels from "Agua" to "Secuestrarme".

 

[ZapFinch42]

Yeah....NMD, Humane Borders and BAN. There's some fine, upstanding Americans helping people break the law:roll:

May as well change the print on the barrels from "Agua" to "Secuestrarme".

Please, you are not that deluded.

 

[SMTA]

i think some of you have no idea, whats goes on in the desert out here.

You are exactly correct.

Ignorance is bliss for many.

You have the right to protect yourselves and your property.

Law-enforcement is mainly good for only taking reports.

 

[SMTA]

Yeah....NMD, Humane Borders and BAN. There's some fine, upstanding Americans helping people break the law:roll:

May as well change the print on the barrels from "Agua" to "Secuestrarme".

Well done Luther.

You've done well In trying to educate the ignorant, but to no avail.

 

[Jerry]

Ariz. sheriff: Armed militias beware or be shot



Very interesting article.

I agree with the sherrif here.

 

[Wiseone]

You are exactly correct.

Ignorance is bliss for many.

You have the right to protect yourselves and your property.

Law-enforcement is mainly good for only taking reports.

Yes but you don't have the right to conduct law enforcement. If a drug smugglers or illegal immigrants threatens you and you kill him that's fine, but if you go out looking for them with the intent on starting a confrintation and end up killing on of them that's murder.

You know if you were to go to a street corner where a guy is selling drugs and shot him, that's murder. Its no different just because you're in a desert.

 

[Master PO]

You are exactly correct.

Ignorance is bliss for many.

You have the right to protect yourselves and your property.

Law-enforcement is mainly good for only taking reports.

here , people enter onto other people's property all the time, with no authorities around for many miles.

there is no easily calling the law, and having them throw out your property, ....people in this forum dont seem to understand, people are found all the time dead in the desert, from illegal activity

 

[Master PO]

Yes but you don't have the right to conduct law enforcement. If a drug smugglers or illegal immigrants threatens you and you kill him that's fine, but if you go out looking for them with the intent on starting a confrintation and end up killing on of them that's murder.

You know if you were to go to a street corner where a guy is selling drugs and shot him, that's murder. Its no different just because you're in a desert.

i do have a right to protect my property and that means paroling it, out here in the GREAT WIDE OPEN SPACES.

when you are out in the desert away from any civilization out there, you better be armed, and you better approach anyone you come upon with caution.

this is not NY, there is no law around places for many miles.

 

[LaMidRighter]

Actually, militia groups can be quite useful as a force multiplier. Setting trail cams and scouting for entry routes is incredibly manpower intensive so volunteer groups picking up some of the slack can be a great help as long as they coordinate with law enforcement.

The bolded is the exact key phrase. Excluding LEOs from the process is vigilantism and not acceptable under our legal system, I think Arpaio is only speaking to controlling illegal behaviors from militia groups, or unauthorized actions which is his sworn duty.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Yeah....NMD, Humane Borders and BAN. There's some fine, upstanding Americans helping people break the law:roll:

May as well change the print on the barrels from "Agua" to "Secuestrarme".

This post shows just how much BS your previous posts was when trying to make a claim that your efforts "just might save" illegals.

You and your ilk are not in any manner interested in saving illegals in the Sonoran region.

 

[Wiseone]

i do have a right to protect my property and that means paroling it, out here in the GREAT WIDE OPEN SPACES.

when you are out in the desert away from any civilization out there, you better be armed, and you better approach anyone you come upon with caution.

this is not NY, there is no law around places for many miles.

Yes like I said in the same post you quoted, you have a right to defend your property. But you do not have a right to seek out criminals for law enforcement reasons.

I'm from Arizona dude, I know about the great open deserts.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

here , people enter onto other people's property all the time, with no authorities around for many miles.

there is no easily calling the law, and having them throw out your property, ....people in this forum dont seem to understand, people are found all the time dead in the desert, from illegal activity

99% of the deaths are a result of the environment conditions, the heat, the lack of water and the distances.

 

[Master PO]

99% of the deaths are a result of the environment conditions, the heat, the lack of water and the distances.

those are factors, you and i in the desert, i could kill you , dig a hole, plant you, and no one would never find you.

people are found murdered in the desert all the time.

 

[Master PO]

Yes like I said in the same post you quoted, you have a right to defend your property. But you do not have a right to seek out criminals for law enforcement reasons.

I'm from Arizona dude, I know about the great open deserts.

yes, so am i

if i am on my property i have a right to patrol it, now if i just up and shoot someone who is on it, thats not a correct coarse of action.

however i am prepared for such an event , should trouble arise on my property.

 

[Lutherf]

This post shows just how much BS your previous posts was when trying to make a claim that your efforts "just might save" illegals.

You and your ilk are not in any manner interested in saving illegals in the Sonoran region.

That would be true only if you chose to except the fact that we're trying to keep them from coming here illegally in the first place. These people wouldn't be having these issues if they didn't try to sneak across the desert. Hell, if they wanted to come here illegally it's a whole lot easier and safer for them to just come across at one of the ports of entry and overstay their visa but that brings up another issue that you seem to be avoiding......if it's easier to cross at a regular port of entry then why did they choose to hike 40 miles across a desert in the first place? Could it possibly be that if they tried things legally they'd be refused for one reason or another.....like having broken the law in their own country or having been caught here previously?

 

[Wiseone]

yes, so am i

if i am on my property i have a right to patrol it, now if i just up and shoot someone who is on it, thats not a correct coarse of action.

however i am prepared for such an event , should trouble arise on my property.

For the third time, YES ON YOUR PROPERTY. Do I need to say it four ****ing times? I'm seeking to patroling public land or somewhere elsewhere with the specific intent of confronting people you believe are or may be criminals, that's something you can't do.

 

[Lutherf]

99% of the deaths are a result of the environment conditions, the heat, the lack of water and the distances.

If they weren't trying to sneak in illegally they'd have avoided those problems.

 

[Master PO]

For the third time, YES ON YOUR PROPERTY. Do I need to say it four ****ing times? I'm seeking to patroling public land or somewhere elsewhere with the specific intent of confronting people you believe are or may be criminals, that's something you can't do.

and i have stated my property every time....did you miss it?

"arise on my property"#66
"my property"#60
"people enter onto other people's property all the time"..referring to my property #59

 

[Gimmesometruth]

That would be true only if you chose to except the fact that we're trying to keep them from coming here illegally in the first place. These people wouldn't be having these issues if they didn't try to sneak across the desert. Hell, if they wanted to come here illegally it's a whole lot easier and safer for them to just come across at one of the ports of entry and overstay their visa but that brings up another issue that you seem to be avoiding......if it's easier to cross at a regular port of entry then why did they choose to hike 40 miles across a desert in the first place? Could it possibly be that if they tried things legally they'd be refused for one reason or another.....like having broken the law in their own country or having been caught here previously?

Silly, the issuance of VISA's is beyond their reach and your cameras are not going to stop the flow. Your silly militia, as was the minutemen, is nothing more than a bunch of rw kooks with guns wanting to play cowboys and indians. If you wanted to stem the flow of workers, then you would be pressuring the AZ Chamber of Commerce, the AZ House and Senate and Jan to stop BUSINESSES from hiring, but AZ business has relied on cheap labor since before 1912. If you were interested in stemming the flow of MJ, then you would be pushing to relax further the laws on use and cultivation.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

If they weren't trying to sneak in illegally they'd have avoided those problems.

And if their wasn't a demand for their labor, they would not come.

It has ALWAYS been a matter of economics, it was true for your ancestors just as it is for the "illegals".

 

[Wiseone]

and i have stated my property every time....did you miss it?

"arise on my property"#66
"my property"#60
"people enter onto other people's property all the time"..referring to my property #59

Holy Christ dude, I know you keep saying it, I keep saying it too, so stop repeating as if I don't understand or agree with that.

 

[Master PO]

Silly, the issuance of VISA's is beyond their reach and your cameras are not going to stop the flow. Your silly militia, as was the minutemen, is nothing more than a bunch of rw kooks with guns wanting to play cowboys and indians. If you wanted to stem the flow of workers, then you would be pressuring the AZ Chamber of Commerce, the AZ House and Senate and Jan to stop BUSINESSES from hiring, but AZ business has relied on cheap labor since before 1912. If you were interested in stemming the flow of MJ, then you would be pushing to relax further the laws on use and cultivation.

our state has enacted many laws, one which would take away the business license of people who hire illegals, yet the liberals and illegals complain its not fair.

make it illegal for people to stop and pickup illegals for day labor.......again its been claimed its not fair.

 

[Lutherf]

Silly, the issuance of VISA's is beyond their reach and your cameras are not going to stop the flow. Your silly militia, as was the minutemen, is nothing more than a bunch of rw kooks with guns wanting to play cowboys and indians. If you wanted to stem the flow of workers, then you would be pressuring the AZ Chamber of Commerce, the AZ House and Senate and Jan to stop BUSINESSES from hiring, but AZ business has relied on cheap labor since before 1912. If you were interested in stemming the flow of MJ, then you would be pushing to relax further the laws on use and cultivation.

Well, in 2007 we introduced the Legal Arizona Workers Act which did EXACTLY what you suggest but the Obama administration decided to sue us to overturn it.