Are you that ignorant when it comes to abortions?

[independentusa]

I look at the posts about the dems and Ginsburg being responsible for abortions. Do you actually think that there were no abortions before Roe, or that there were fewer abortions, then you do not know history. There have been abortions since forever and the number will never really be known as poor families and the rich as well did not tell people as it violated the laws in every state in the union. The only real thing that Roe did was make it safer for women to get one as they could go to a real doctor and have it done. Just so you know I am a Catholic and against abortion as that is what my religion says I must be. Should my or your beliefs be the ones that run this country and all of the women. And do you think that outlawing abortions again will stop them any more than it did before Roe? And now I hear that the religious right wing want to once again outlaw contraceptives. Won't that help the situation?

 

[weaver2]

I look at the posts about the dems and Ginsburg being responsible for abortions. Do you actually think that there were no abortions before Roe, or that there were fewer abortions, then you do not know history. There have been abortions since forever and the number will never really be known as poor families and the rich as well did not tell people as it violated the laws in every state in the union. The only real thing that Roe did was make it safer for women to get one as they could go to a real doctor and have it done. Just so you know I am a Catholic and against abortion as that is what my religion says I must be. Should my or your beliefs be the ones that run this country and all of the women. And do you think that outlawing abortions again will stop them any more than it did before Roe? And now I hear that the religious right wing want to once again outlaw contraceptives. Won't that help the situation?

The reason for making abortion illegal is to make punishment legal.

 

[Dragonfly]

And now I hear that the religious right wing want to once again outlaw contraceptives.

Got a link?

 

[minnie616]

Making abortion illegal will not stop women from having an abortion.

The true solution is to keep abortions legal but make birth control accessible and child care accessible for those in need so that abortions are unnecessary unless the woman or unborn has a medical condition that puts their life or long term health in grave danger.

 

[Excon]

The true solution is to keep abortions legal but make birth control accessible and child care accessible for those in need so that abortions are unnecessary unless the woman or unborn has a medical condition that puts their life or long term health in grave danger.

That is a pipe dream, not a solution, as there will alsways be those who do not want to carry a child.

 

[Carjosse]

That is a pipe dream, not a solution, as there will alsways be those who do not want to carry a child.

It would greatly reduce the number of women who would seek one. That is like saying we shouldn't have seatbelts because they do not eliminate traffic accident deaths.

 

[minnie616]

That is a pipe dream, not a solution, as there will alsways be those who do not want to carry a child.

Making Birth control accessible and reliable to women who do not wish to gestate a pregnancy reduces greatly
the number of unwanted pregnancies.

Wanted pregnancies are rarely aborted unless something went medically wrong with the pregnancy.

 

[Dayton3]

And now I hear that the religious right wing want to once again outlaw contraceptives. ?

When did you hear that? I don't know anyone who wants to outlaw contraceptives aside from some Catholic zealots.

 

[minnie616]

It would greatly reduce the number of women who would seek one. That is like saying we shouldn't have seatbelts because they do not eliminate traffic accident deaths.

Wrong .

Birth control saves lives by preventing unwanted pregnancies.
That way the woman chooses when and if she is ready for a wanted pregnancy.

 

[Bodi]

I look at the posts about the dems and Ginsburg being responsible for abortions. Do you actually think that there were no abortions before Roe, or that there were fewer abortions, then you do not know history. There have been abortions since forever and the number will never really be known as poor families and the rich as well did not tell people as it violated the laws in every state in the union. The only real thing that Roe did was make it safer for women to get one as they could go to a real doctor and have it done. Just so you know I am a Catholic and against abortion as that is what my religion says I must be. Should my or your beliefs be the ones that run this country and all of the women. And do you think that outlawing abortions again will stop them any more than it did before Roe? And now I hear that the religious right wing want to once again outlaw contraceptives. Won't that help the situation?

Why don't you learn to think for yourself...

 

[Excon]

It would greatly reduce the number of women who would seek one.

1. That is your belief.
2. Nor is a reduction the end goal of those who oppose taking of innocent life in this regard. So again, not a solution.
There will always be those who do not want to carry a child.

That is like saying we shouldn't have seatbelts because they do not eliminate traffic accident deaths.

iLOL
No it isn't.
We shouldn't have seat-belts becasue that is a restriction on freedom.
The insurance industry pushed for them so as to reduce their payouts.


==============================================

Making Birth control accessible and reliable to women who do not wish to gestate a pregnancy reduces greatly
the number of unwanted pregnancies.

Yes. That is what you believe even though birthcontrol is readily available to those who seek it in this country.
A reduction in numbers is not the goal of the other side. Speaking to the otherside's argument with an argument of reduction has no relevance.
It is an innocent life to them that is worthy of preserving and therefore they want to make the killing of that life an illegal act.

 

[minnie616]

1. That is your belief.
2. Nor is a reduction the end goal of those who oppose taking of innocent life in this regard. So again, not a solution.
There will always be those who do not want to carry a child.


iLOL
No it isn't.
We shouldn't have seat-belts becasue that is a restriction on freedom.
The insurance industry pushed for them so as to reduce their payouts.


==============================================


Yes. That is what you believe even though birthcontrol is readily available to those who seek it in this country.
A reduction in numbers is not the goal of the other side. Speaking to the otherside's argument with an argument of reduction has no relevance.
It is an innocent life to them that is worthy of preserving and therefore they want to make the killing of that life an illegal act.

1. That is your belief.
2. Nor is a reduction the end goal of those who oppose taking of innocent life in this regard. So again, not a solution.
There will always be those who do not want to carry a child.


iLOL
No it isn't.
We shouldn't have seat-belts becasue that is a restriction on freedom.
The insurance industry pushed for them so as to reduce their payouts.


==============================================


Yes. That is what you believe even though birthcontrol is readily available to those who seek it in this country.
A reduction in numbers is not the goal of the other side. Speaking to the otherside's argument with an argument of reduction has no relevance.
It is an innocent life to them that is worthy of preserving and therefore they want to make the killing of that life an illegal act.
[

 

[minnie616]

I disagree. Laws do stop people from breaking the law they just punish the people who break them.

When Birth control is available at no cost to a woman abortion rates fall greatly.

Colorado abortion rates keep declining. Free IUDs and easier access to the pill are the reason.
Health officials say Colorado has made huge progress in access to birth control in recent years.


https://coloradosun.com/2019/10/21/...and-easier-access-to-the-pill-are-the-reason/

 

[Excon]

[Nothing]

Interesting. You quote me twice, do not bother to edit out that which did not pertain to you, and still failed to respond in that post even though you had time to edit it. But instead, I believe, made a separate post two minutes later to respond. New forum woes have you?

I disagree.

iLOL That is your prerogative.

Laws do stop people from breaking the law they just punish the people who break them.

Yes. Laws do stop those who are not lawless from breaking the law * and does indeed lay out punishment for those who break it. That is how it functions.

*I am pretty sure that is not what you meant though, so the following is my response to what I believe you meant.​

Yes. Laws do not stop the lawless. But your commentary is irrelevant to what I stated. It was really like saying we shouldn't have laws becasue some people are going to break them anyways, which is an absurd proposition from the start.
Regardless, if folks are going to break them, you hold them accountable under the law for doing so, which is exactly what would be done if the opposing side got their way.

When Birth control is available at no cost to a woman abortion rates fall greatly.

Colorado abortion rates keep declining. Free IUDs and easier access to the pill are the reason.​

Health officials say Colorado has made huge progress in access to birth control in recent years.​

iLOL Hilarious.
1. That is not "proof".
2. That is not a study (not that a single study could prove anything).
3. A 10% drop is not "greatly". And a 10% drop shows it is not a solution. Not to mention you also have to then contend with the portion of that 10% which are from the morning after pill. (Which would also likely be outlawed if those on the other side of the coin have their way.)
It is simply not a solution whether you disagree or not.

The bottom line is that this is just one of those issues with no real solution between the opposing sides.

 

[Lursa]

I disagree. Laws do stop people from breaking the law they just punish the people who break them.

Even the turnover of RvW wouldnt make abortion illegal. It would go back to the states, some states would make "the procedure" illegal, some wouldnt. Any woman can still go to another state for one. Sad for the added hoops of course but some large states only provide one clinic now and women do that.

The states cannot actually 'criminalize' a woman for having an abortion...just restrict the procedure. The unborn have no rights and certainly nothing that override the many protections the Const offers women.

Meh...who cares what some people believe...they can never answer this basic question: What moral or legal authority that Americans are obligated to follow says that the unborn have a right to life?

I'm still interested in an answer to that question....?

Pro-choice isnt going anywhere.

 

[minnie616]

Interesting. You quote me twice, do not bother to edit out that which did not pertain to you, and still failed to respond in that post even though you had time to edit it. But instead, I believe, made a separate post two minutes later to respond. New forum woes have you?

*I am pretty sure that is not what you meant though, so the following is my response to what I believe you meant.​

Yes. Laws do not stop the lawless. But your commentary is irrelevant to what I stated. It was really like saying we shouldn't have laws becasue some people are going to break them anyways, which is an absurd proposition from the start.
Regardless, if folks are going to break them, you hold them accountable under the law for doing so, which is exactly what would be done if the opposing side got their way.


iLOL Hilarious.
1. That is not "proof".
2. That is not a study (not that a single study could prove anything).
3. A 10% drop is not "greatly". And a 10% drop shows it is not a solution. Not to mention you also have to then contend with the portion of that 10% which are from the morning after pill. (Which would also likely be outlawed if those on the other side of the coin have their way.)
It is simply not a solution whether you disagree or not.

The bottom line is that this is just one of those issues with no real solution between the opposing sides.

I was saying laws are there to punish those who break laws.

Making birth control more accessible is a real solution because it does save lives just like seat belts save lives.

Saving all lives is the “pipe dream” but saving more lives is not.


Do not fool yourself by going by percentage go by real numbers.


In 2017 the rate of abortions had fallen to levels lower than 1973 when The Roe decision was made and abortions before viability were made legal in all states.

The abortion rate (the number of abortions per 1,000 women aged 15–44) fell by 20%, from 16.9 in 2011 to 13.5 in 2017.

The rate was at 14.6 abortions per 1,000 women of childbearing age (ages 15-44) in 2014. That's the lowest recorded rate since the Roe decision in 1973. The abortion rate has been declining for decades — down from a peak of 29.3 in 1980 and 1981.

In 1980-1981 there were 29.3 abortions per 1,000 women
In 2017 the numbers fell to 13.5 abortions per 1,000 women

That is a big drop.

 

[OceanBlues1]

I look at the posts about the dems and Ginsburg being responsible for abortions. Do you actually think that there were no abortions before Roe, or that there were fewer abortions, then you do not know history. There have been abortions since forever and the number will never really be known as poor families and the rich as well did not tell people as it violated the laws in every state in the union. The only real thing that Roe did was make it safer for women to get one as they could go to a real doctor and have it done.

Agreed. And that's why abortion needs to stay legal. Making abortion illegal will probably not stop women who really don't want to carry a pregnancy and have a baby.

 

[weaver2]

Agreed. And that's why abortion needs to stay legal. Making abortion illegal will probably not stop women who really don't want to carry a pregnancy and have a baby.

Making abortion illegal does nothing to stop abortions. What it does do is provide a a legal opportunity to punish women for not carrying a pregnancy to term. The mind of a person that needs to find women who get abortions, make criminals of them, punish them for being honest about whether or not they can take proper car of a child's is not just a little bit creepy it's a lot creepy. There is something basically sick with their world view.

 

[Josie]

And now I hear that the religious right wing want to once again outlaw contraceptives. Won't that help the situation?

You've been asked at least twice about this statement. Who are these "religious right wing" people who want to outlaw contraceptives?

 

[Eriech]

Joe Biden (with Obama) promised in 2007 to codify Roe. In 2008 when he could have, they chose not to do the work. That Roe is in jeopardy is Biden's legacy. 47 years of nothing.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[OceanBlues1]

Making abortion illegal does nothing to stop abortions. What it does do is provide a a legal opportunity to punish women for not carrying a pregnancy to term.

Absolutely agree. Which I think is what the most extreme prolifers had in mind when they began pushing for abortion to be illegal. They are fixated on this kind of punishment.

 

[vegas giants]

Joe Biden (with Obama) promised in 2007 to codify Roe. In 2008 when he could have, they chose not to do the work. That Roe is in jeopardy is Biden's legacy. 47 years of nothing.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

It's not in jeopardy

 

[Eriech]

Not in jeopardy? Why the panic by the pro abortionists?

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[vegas giants]

Not in jeopardy? Why the panic by the pro abortionists?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

I dont sense any panic

 

[weaver2]

You've been asked at least twice about this statement. Who are these "religious right wing" people who want to outlaw contraceptives?

Supreme Court Upholds Trump Administration Regulation Letting Employers Opt Out of Birth Control Coverage (Published 2020)

The regulation was the latest attempt to undermine the “contraception mandate,” a signature initiative of the Obama administration.

www.nytimes.com

The ACA was designed provide coverage for those medical procedures, processes, medications, examinations etc that got the biggest savings for the amount spent. At the top of the list was coverage for women's contraceptives. The savings to the public for a woman, especially a low wage worker, not having a child are huge.

That all the anti-abortion organizations are against the biggest savings possible, women's contraceptives, tells you their fight against abortion has nothing to do with saving money and quite a lot about installing their ideology as the law.