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Are you sure there is no God ? [W: 352]

Are you sure there is no God ?

  • Total voters
    76
Re: Are you sure there is no God ?

William Rea said:
Just so you are aware, Frank hasn't been around for a while because the same crap he is posting now was torn apart by us. He has done the usual fundagelical thing of having all his crap refuted but, then just asserting it again anyway. See threads past and you will see the future of this thread.
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That's exactly why Frank is on most people's ignore list. He isn't worth debating with. He isn't capable of having an intelligent, or even coherent, discussion.
 
Re: Are you sure there is no God ?

I have yet to see any credible evidence of the supernatural.
 
Re: Are you sure there is no God ?

Isn't that why the Navy is building those giant railguns?

So if God exists, we can shoot him down?
 
Re: Are you sure there is no God ?

MrWonka said:
No, it's really not. Both PI and 2 are symbols to represent an abstract concept that cannot be absolutely defined. No two objects are exactly identical. We consider them close enough to say that there are two of them, but in reality on some level they are all slightly different.
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Math is abstract yes but numbers are well defined. Pi is an infinite string of non repeating numbers. You'll never get a 100% accurate calculation in base 10 (decimal) if you have to use it. 2, on the other hand, is pretty well defined. I give you 2 question marks: ??

Who cares about identical? You can have 2 undefined concrete physical objects. 2 similar objects. etc.

And what you need to acknowledge is that by your extreme definition of the word "know" you really don't know anything other than maybe "I think therefore I am." All other knowledge amounts to things that you might consider very very likely. Agnostics try and play the bad calculus problem of claiming that if you keep getting half way closer to knowing the truth than you can't ever get there. Obviously that is not really the truth, it's just silly theory.
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I'm a skeptic :shrug:. "Know" is a big deal for me. I put my hand in front of my face and move my fingers. I know that my fingers appear to move. It could be an illusion of some sort, but since I feel it as well as see it, it would take some pretty outrageous circumstances for that to be the case (matrix, deceptive god, etc.). I still can't be 100% sure I have fingers and they're obeying me. But I'm 99.99% sure. The difference is important.

Agnostics refrain from leaping to a conclusion that is unsupported. If you're ok doing that then power to you, just don't expect everyone to jump to conclusions with you.

There's nothing inconsistent with the existence of some form of god. You want to talk specific gods? Much much less likely, although hard to prove impossible. You seem to have a hard time grasping how much we as humans do not know.
 
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Re: Are you sure there is no God ?

Cephus said:
That's exactly why Frank is on most people's ignore list. He isn't worth debating with. He isn't capable of having an intelligent, or even coherent, discussion.
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Your best bet, Wonka, is to do what Cephus and William suggest...

...claim victory and moral superiority...and then run and hide. And you can do what they are doing, sniping from hiding. Of course, people will think you are a coward like them if you do...something you have to consider.

In the meantime, if you truly want to discuss this difference we have, we can do it reasonably.

Just let me know.
 
Re: Are you sure there is no God ?

Manc Skipper said:
I have yet to see any credible evidence of the supernatural.
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Neither have I.

I have also yet to see any credible evidence that there are sentient beings on one of the planets circling the nearest 15 stars to Sol.

So I would have to say that I do not know if there are any sentient beings on any of those planets...NOT THAT THERE ARE NOT. And any guess I would make would be a BLIND GUESS...nothing more.
 
Re: Are you sure there is no God ?

Once again...MY personal agnosticism:

I do not know if there is a GOD or if there are gods;
I do not know if there are no gods;
I see no reason to suspect gods CANNOT EXIST;
I see no reason to suspect that gods MUST EXIST...that they are needed to explain existence;
I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction...

...so I don't.
 
Re: Are you sure there is no God ?

MrWonka said:
Earth or Universe are irrelevant. Having an impact on our world is essential to the notion of a god. Even in your vague definition you admitted as much. What you seem to want to call a god is nothing of importance at all. You can't just go around calling anything you want a god. I have defined what criteria a thing would need to meet in order for me to consider it a god. Nothing of that sort exists, and I can say that with confidence.
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Ok, we need to clear this up since it's causing most of our disagreements. Why does a god have to affect reality? Why frequently? And don't give me something that just boils down to "Well that's just what gods do".

A function of the law of physics would be consistent. It would not indicate an outside force manipulating individual events.
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You assume we would be able to tell the difference. What causes a tornado? Would we be able to tell the difference between a natural one and a divine one? Especially if the god in question wanted us to think it was natural.

We would still be left with his effects. If I saw Santa come down my chimney and he magically edited the vision of him out of my memory banks I would still wake up the next day to unexplained presents and or coal in my stocking with no other rational means of it's arrival.
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What if he just did the dishes? The next day you didn't even notice, or couldn't remember if you did them or not, or maybe someone else in the house did. What if he just moved a shoe 2 inches to the left?
 
Re: Are you sure there is no God ?

Frank Apisa said:
Neither have I.

I have also yet to see any credible evidence that there are sentient beings on one of the planets circling the nearest 15 stars to Sol.

So I would have to say that I do not know if there are any sentient beings on any of those planets...NOT THAT THERE ARE NOT. And any guess I would make would be a BLIND GUESS...nothing more.
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Yawn. ....never mind
 
Re: Are you sure there is no God ?

shagg said:
There is no way to prove or disprove the existence of an all powerful being who wishes to remain outside of human perception. Anyone who says otherwise is guessing or making baseless assumptions.
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Not - all - human perception.
 
Re: Are you sure there is no God ?

Yawn. The default position is unbelief, until evidence is produced. You have no valid point.
 
Re: Are you sure there is no God ?

Nilly said:
I don't disagree with much else you're saying but electrons? Photons?
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At best I would call it arguable that two photons or electrons could be said to be identical. I think you will find as science progresses we will determine they can be differentiated.
 
Re: Are you sure there is no God ?

shagg said:
Ok, we need to clear this up since it's causing most of our disagreements. Why does a god have to affect reality? Why frequently? And don't give me something that just boils down to "Well that's just what gods do".
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Do you not understand that a definition of what god is matters? Tell me why a being that could care less about our world in anyway should be considered a god? How are they different than an Alien life form like Q from Star Trek?


shagg said:
You assume we would be able to tell the difference. What causes a tornado? Would we be able to tell the difference between a natural one and a divine one? Especially if the god in question wanted us to think it was natural.
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If you could establish a cause and effect of some kind then sure. Why do you think God dislikes Kansas so much? What are the people of Northern Minnesota doing differently that has allowed them to avoid such natural disasters?

shagg said:
What if he just did the dishes? The next day you didn't even notice, or couldn't remember if you did them or not, or maybe someone else in the house did. What if he just moved a shoe 2 inches to the left?
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It would still be an effect. Just because I didn't notice it, doesn't mean it wouldn't be noticeable.
 
Re: Are you sure there is no God ?

MrWonka said:
At best I would call it arguable that two photons or electrons could be said to be identical. I think you will find as science progresses we will determine they can be differentiated.
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I mean, electrons are so damn similar to each other that there is a theory proposed by Richard Feynman and John Wheeler that all electrons are all actually the same 1 electron zipping around in time. And when it's moving backwards in time it's a positron. In that case there would only actually be 1 of them but it's crazy how indistinguishable they are.
 
Re: Are you sure there is no God ?

Manc Skipper said:
Yawn. The default position is unbelief, until evidence is produced. You have no valid point.
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Fundagelical agnostic buffoons with no shred of intellectual honesty will never have a discussion. My guess is that some of them go on about their inane crap so much that publishers print a vanity piece for them just to sttfu.

When you're that wrong, all you have left is caps, bolds and oversize fonts I guess.
 
Re: Are you sure there is no God ?

shagg said:
There is no way to prove or disprove the existence of an all powerful being who wishes to remain outside of human perception. Anyone who says otherwise is guessing or making baseless assumptions.
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Where did you hear that from?
 
Re: Are you sure there is no God ?

Manc Skipper said:
Yawn. The default position is unbelief, until evidence is produced. You have no valid point.
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Unbelief????

The default position, for a truthful person, is "I do not know"...or "I have no belief either way."

I HAVE a valid point.

And you ought to see a doctor about all that yawning.
 
Re: Are you sure there is no God ?

William Rea said:
Fundagelical agnostic buffoons with no shred of intellectual honesty will never have a discussion. My guess is that some of them go on about their inane crap so much that publishers print a vanity piece for them just to sttfu.

When you're that wrong, all you have left is caps, bolds and oversize fonts I guess.
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Whew...talk about crap being posted!
 
Re: Are you sure there is no God ?

spud_meister said:
Considering there's no certainty, faith is a must when discussing religion.
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Okay...so do your guessing...and call it "faith" like the theists do.

You'll get no static from me on that.
 
Re: Are you sure there is no God ?

Frank Apisa said:
Okay...so do your guessing...and call it "faith" like the theists do.

You'll get no static from me on that.
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You yourself have faith that gods don't exist, unless you try to follow all the tenets of all religions?
 
Re: Are you sure there is no God ?

spud_meister said:
You yourself have faith that gods don't exist, unless you try to follow all the tenets of all religions?
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Why is that????

Explain that bit of "reasoning."
 
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